ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 10:07

Quote:

Mobil 1 and Motul, primarily termed as fully synthetic for petrols, are good enough for Diesel's

Again, I don't get why people are saying this! These oils meet the standards laid down by their manufacturers, whether that is a diesel or petrol.

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Motul (less expensive) is as good as Mobil 1 (which is expensive)

Incorrect. They cost the same. But the specs show that Motul is a better oil.

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Diesel engine are better off with specific oils made for Diesel engines (synthetic or otherwise) ?

Don't confuse the matter. Both tsk & I agree that a synthetic is better than a mineral. That part is clear.

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1. No API-CH,CI oil(diesel) is rated for petrol

Mobil Delvac 1 is CI, SJ & SL certified

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2. Even the most expensive synthetic oils for petrol are API-CF4 for diesel and API-SM for petrol. I don't really know what does API-CI oil have which API-CF oil does not have. RT says don't worry, as long as your car can take API-CF use it

Unless your vehicle specifically recommends API-CI-4 grade oil, I'd rather use a CF/B4 oil which has a better VI rather than a CI oil which has a lower VI.

Quote:

3. Viscosity wars, RT is right. Lighter motor vehicle oil will give more cold start protection. I say that if you warm up your engine a heavy duty oil will be equally effective.

Majority of engine damage is done on startup and before the engine reached its operating temperature. This is when the oil has to play its most critical role.

Also, being in the North, winters do get pretty cold up there, and that is all the more reason why this should matter to people up North.

Jaggu · 6th July 2007, 10:48

Ok swift d following is said:

"Be sure that the engine oil you use comes under the quality classification of ACEA B3. The recommended engine oil is SF 15W 40, API CG4 or above."

Oil gurus please recommend options.

tsk1979 · 6th July 2007, 10:54

Hmm jaggu that means that you cannot use API-CF4 synthetic since the manual says API-CG4 minimum?
So that leaves you with Castrol GTX diesel(API-CI), Shell Helix (Forgot the exact name) API-CG4 or the Bharat petroleum thingy

Sankar · 6th July 2007, 10:59

Can you use motorcycle engine oils in cars?

If yes the Motul 300V 100% synthetic engine oil is available in 15W50W grade and costs 500 change per liter. It's generally marketed as a motorcycle engine oil in Bangalore.

OT: Since i have fixed all the leaks in my Bullet engine i am going to use it

Otherwise not worth with a leaking engine.

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 11:19

"Be sure that the engine oil you use comes under the quality classification of ACEA B3. The recommended engine oil is SF 15W 40, API CG4 or above."

This is where it gets weird!

First they say ACEA B3, which is for High performance and/or extended drain passenger diesels
Then they say SF: which is an old API standard for petrol engines of 1988 or older!
Then they go ahead and say CG4 or higher!

So the oil that meets 2 out of the 3 standards mentioned would be Delvac1. It would be interesting to see what oil Maruti themselves use. Jaggu, think you can find that out?

Jaggu · 6th July 2007, 11:23

what about these? And would be great if someone can give info on hierarchy of various specs like API X greater that API Y etc

Mobil Delvac 1 Meets or Exceeds the following industry and builder specifications: 5W-40
API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ X
ACEA E7/E5/E4/E3 X
Caterpillar ECF-1 X

OR

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Meets or Exceeds the following industry and builder specifications: 10W-30 15W-40
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CF/SM, SL X X
API CF-2 X
ACEA E7/E5 X

RT you overtook me, maruti use Mobil Delvac and hence i was googling for delvac variety. Price per liter is 150 Rs so i guess it should be Delvac 1300

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 11:25

Quote:

And would be great if someone can give info on hierarchy of various specs like API X greater that API Y etc

It's already mentioned above in the earlier posts Jaggu. The links in the very first post on this thread give the time line for API standards, and my post #441 gives the explanation of ACEA standards.

tsk1979 · 6th July 2007, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

It's already mentioned above in the earlier posts Jaggu. The links in the very first post on this thread give the time line for API standards, and my post #441 gives the explanation of ACEA standards.

Even I found API-SF funny.
If they had said B3 and API-CG4, understood,
Delvac does not meet B3 standards only E standards.
However there are numerous mineral oils which meet API-CG4 and B3 standard, and also the petrol standards till SJ!
Moreover there are so many companies marketing synthetics (Valvoline, Chevron etc., etc.,) but we see only Mobil and Motul here, and some Castrol.
Also can you post some link which gives details of ACEA standards, you can add it to first post.

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 11:33

exactly. That's why i'm interested to see what oil Maruti recommends. Do they have a Maruti branded oil? I'm sure it would be a mineral oil though.

Jaggu · 6th July 2007, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

exactly. That's why i'm interested to see what oil Maruti recommends. Do they have a Maruti branded oil? I'm sure it would be a mineral oil though.

Maruti uses Mobil Delvac, which one am not sure and it costs Rs 150 approx per liter

Meanwhile comparison between Mobil 1 Delvac and Mobil Delvac

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 11:45

They seem quite similar at 100 degrees. But the VI of the synthetic is far higher than that of the mineral oil.

But, costwise, it is about 1:4 (D1 : D). So essentially you could change your oil 4 times using the mineral oil for the price of 1 oil change of the synthetic.

Also a point to note is that none of these are B3 graded. Not even the maruti provided oil.

Jaggu · 6th July 2007, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

They seem quite similar at 100 degrees. But the VI of the synthetic is far higher than that of the mineral oil.

But, costwise, it is about 1:4 (D1 : D). So essentially you could change your oil 4 times using the mineral oil for the price of 1 oil change of the synthetic.

Also a point to note is that none of these are B3 graded. Not even the maruti provided oil.

Yup and thanks for guiding to the right thread, now need to figure out which oil meets B3 classification and available in India.

Rtech · 6th July 2007, 11:51

Jaggu, usually the manufacture will provide multiple standards of which the oil must meet one of them. So it should be OK.

I'm beginning to like the VAG of working. They simply state that the oil must be VW.505.00 or something to that effect! Makes it a lot simpler!

Jaggu · 6th July 2007, 12:00

okie.. look at what Merc recommends...

Mercedes-Benz Engine Oil Recommendations

API Rating, Source Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

tsk1979 · 6th July 2007, 12:01

Hmm this brings an interesting question, Japanese automakers follow JASO.
Do Honda/Toyota/Suzuki manuals contain JASO ratings, like VAG has VW and MB and MB ratings?
Honda/toyota owners please comment?

6th July 2007, 10:48	#452
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,370 Thanked: 17,302 Times	Ok swift d following is said: "Be sure that the engine oil you use comes under the quality classification of ACEA B3. The recommended engine oil is SF 15W 40, API CG4 or above." Oil gurus please recommend options.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 10:54	#453
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,489 Times View My Garage	Hmm jaggu that means that you cannot use API-CF4 synthetic since the manual says API-CG4 minimum? So that leaves you with Castrol GTX diesel(API-CI), Shell Helix (Forgot the exact name) API-CG4 or the Bharat petroleum thingy
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 10:59	#454
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,780 Thanked: 9,253 Times	Can you use motorcycle engine oils in cars? If yes the Motul 300V 100% synthetic engine oil is available in 15W50W grade and costs 500 change per liter. It's generally marketed as a motorcycle engine oil in Bangalore. OT: Since i have fixed all the leaks in my Bullet engine i am going to use it Otherwise not worth with a leaking engine.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:19	#455
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	"Be sure that the engine oil you use comes under the quality classification of ACEA B3. The recommended engine oil is SF 15W 40, API CG4 or above." This is where it gets weird! First they say ACEA B3, which is for High performance and/or extended drain passenger diesels Then they say SF: which is an old API standard for petrol engines of 1988 or older! Then they go ahead and say CG4 or higher! So the oil that meets 2 out of the 3 standards mentioned would be Delvac1. It would be interesting to see what oil Maruti themselves use. Jaggu, think you can find that out?
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:23	#456
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,370 Thanked: 17,302 Times	what about these? And would be great if someone can give info on hierarchy of various specs like API X greater that API Y etc Mobil Delvac 1 Meets or Exceeds the following industry and builder specifications: 5W-40 API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ X ACEA E7/E5/E4/E3 X Caterpillar ECF-1 X OR Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Meets or Exceeds the following industry and builder specifications: 10W-30 15W-40 API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CF/SM, SL X X API CF-2 X ACEA E7/E5 X RT you overtook me, maruti use Mobil Delvac and hence i was googling for delvac variety. Price per liter is 150 Rs so i guess it should be Delvac 1300 Last edited by Jaggu : 6th July 2007 at 11:25.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:33	#459
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	exactly. That's why i'm interested to see what oil Maruti recommends. Do they have a Maruti branded oil? I'm sure it would be a mineral oil though.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:45	#461
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	They seem quite similar at 100 degrees. But the VI of the synthetic is far higher than that of the mineral oil. But, costwise, it is about 1:4 (D1 : D). So essentially you could change your oil 4 times using the mineral oil for the price of 1 oil change of the synthetic. Also a point to note is that none of these are B3 graded. Not even the maruti provided oil.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:51	#463
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	Jaggu, usually the manufacture will provide multiple standards of which the oil must meet one of them. So it should be OK. I'm beginning to like the VAG of working. They simply state that the oil must be VW.505.00 or something to that effect! Makes it a lot simpler!
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 12:00	#464
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,370 Thanked: 17,302 Times	okie.. look at what Merc recommends... Mercedes-Benz Engine Oil Recommendations API Rating, Source Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible Last edited by Jaggu : 6th July 2007 at 12:14.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 12:01	#465
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,489 Times View My Garage	Hmm this brings an interesting question, Japanese automakers follow JASO. Do Honda/Toyota/Suzuki manuals contain JASO ratings, like VAG has VW and MB and MB ratings? Honda/toyota owners please comment?
	() Thanks