[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

And don't forget the brakes were the weak links on the 1st gen 390, just needs a current gen 390 MC kit, some nice oil and sintered pads.

Even I am a OEM spec guy or OEM+ max to max.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

If you notice, the reason in thousands of Duke posts over 10 years, I NEVER mention brakes (not once) is because I've come from 10 years of riding and racing drum braked Bullets.

The stock brakes of the 390 are plenty for my right index finger. Yes. One finger. And I go through rear pads like butter.

You ride within your chassis and tyres and brakes. Always.

Cheers, Doc

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Hey Gordon. No, my forks are bone stock on oil and seals, everything . Got the seal on one leg changed only once. I dont know if its plush (what makes you say so?) but its very nice for my kind of always fire in the butt riding. The rider sag (unlike the soft rear) is just 40 mm. So its actually stiff.

I asked because from the photos, your stanchions looked more exposed than mine. I haven't got the time to actually measure the sag. If I do get the time today, I'll measure it. Remember seeing this video by MC Garage on how to measure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtzTyCKh5fY

Originally Posted by ebonho

its very nice for my kind of always fire in the butt riding.

Once I was in the thick of fast moving traffic with two boys on two all orange Gen 3 390s. Even in your peripheral vision, you cannot miss that bike! Aaaah what fun. Needless to say, in the end the white Duke granddad was ahead when a truce was mutually called.

Regarding riding style - I ride within the motorcycle's limit and more importantly within the limits of law. I do not let the Duke's nature influence me to go quicker, wild or light my rear end on fire. Very short bursts is fine, nothing wild.

Originally Posted by ebonho

P.S. I was just looking at the photos of both our bikes and my eyes went to the belly pan. Even with the pretty modest ground clearance, Ive rarely ever bashed it anywhere, even fully tour laden in very rocky terrain.

Regarding ground clearance, I don't think I've ever scraped it. To be fair I've never taken it on bad terrain, partly because I don't enjoy transferring those shocks to my neck and back.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Gordon

I asked because from the photos, your stanchions looked more exposed than mine. I haven't got the time to actually measure the sag. If I do get the time today, I'll measure it. Remember seeing this video by MC Garage on how to measure:

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=ZtzTyCKh5fY

Yup. This and some other videos I referred to as well. Reported the findings on this thread some pages back. Currently on 8 at the rear (from the earlier 7). Tried 9. That was too hard and bouncy and unsettling.

The below are the reading for static and rider sag fir front and rear (7, 8, 9).



As you can see, Front sag is 39 mm and Rear is 62 mm (at #8).

Cheers, Doc

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by ebonho

If you notice, the reason in thousands of Duke posts over 10 years, I NEVER mention brakes (not once) is because I've come from 10 years of riding and racing drum braked Bullets.

The stock brakes of the 390 are plenty for my right index finger. Yes. One finger. And I go through rear pads like butter.

You ride within your chassis and tyres and brakes. Always.

Cheers, Doc

I rode the 390 with the stock brake setup and the enhanced setup back to back and I felt the difference, just speaking from experience , it just gives more confidence to push the bike more, that's all .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

I rode the 390 with the stock brake setup and the enhanced setup back to back and I felt the difference, just speaking from experience , it just gives more confidence to push the bike more, that's all .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

I'll bite (maybe, if I feel like an upgrade itch sometime in the near future).

Is it a straight master cylinder swap? Or the caliper too? Rotor too?

Reason I'm asking is that all of these are possible. Depends on how far you want to go.

Guys here are talking about swapping entire front ends and wheels itself, so you get what I'm saying. Once you start, where and when do you stop?

In my mind Ready to Race effectively then goes out of the window. And I'm now back to modding my Bullets.

20 years older. But not a year wiser.

When you make Frankenstein bikes, at home or in your favourite garage. The feel never ever stays the same. And reliability and peace of mind forever leave the building.

Do share. Nonetheless.

Cheers, Doc

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I'll bite (maybe, if I feel like an upgrade itch sometime in the near future).

Is it a straight master cylinder swap? Or the caliper too?

Guys here are talking about swapping entire front ends and wheels itself, so you get what I'm saying. Once you start, where and when do you stop?

In my and peace of mind forever leaves the building.

Do share. Nonetheless.

Cheers, Doc

It is a direct Master cylinder swap, Brake pads (sintered ones) and a good DOT 4 or 5.1, depending on how aggressive you are on the brakes.

You are not exactly modding anything, just enhancing by going OEM+, KTM parts are going on the bike.

There will be no reliability issues as all OEM parts are going on the bike and peace of mind stays. .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

It is a direct Master cylinder swap, Brake pads (sintered ones) and a good DOT 4 or 5.1, depending on how aggressive you are on the brakes.

You are not exactly modding anything, just enhancing by going OEM+, KTM parts are going on the bike.

There will be no reliability issues as all OEM parts are going on the bike and peace of mind stays. .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

Tell me exact part to buy please, and cost (approx.) What is the DOT that is sold at the authorized centers?

Your reasoning is flawed. Every system is designed with very exact parameters. Shifting to a part from a wider parts bin, is OE+ as you say, but is no different from shifting to an OE part of Honda or Suzuki.

Just because both bikes are Duke 390s, thet are NOT technically the same bike. They are at best stablemates.

If it was so easy, then which manufacturer would bother making and stocking separate spares for separate model years? Would KTM not simply have passed an inner memorandum to all service centres to replace Gen 1 master cylinders when and if they go kaput to the larger ones?

Just saying.

Also, when you change 3 things (MC, pads, fluid), how much of the perceived improvement do you attribute to each individually? Impossible to say, in my opinion.

Cheers, Doc

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Tell me exact part to buy please, and cost (approx.) What is the DOT that is sold ar the authorized centers?

Your reasoning is flawed. Every system is designed with very exact parameters. Shifting to a part from a wider parts bin, is OE+ as you say, but is no different from shifting to an OE part of Honda or Suzuki.

Just because both bikes are Duke 390s, thet are NOT technically the same bike. They are at best stablemates.

Also, when you change 3 things (MC, pads, fluid), how much of the perceived improvement do you attribute to each individually? Impossible to say, in my opinion.

Cheers, Doc

Can either go for the Duke 200 MC kit which coast 1k or the Duke 390 MC kit which cost 3.5k. DOT 4 is widely available and 5.1 is available at selected places. The Authorised centers keep the generic Bajaj DOT 4.

Not exactly flawed, brake components are the same, if you go to buy replacement parts, you will get the updated ones, except the disc.

There is a noticeable difference, the bite becomes better, the spongy feeling is replaced by a more direct feel. Will have to make you ride both bikes back to back one day , to feel the difference.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Also, when you change 3 things (MC, pads, fluid), how much of the perceived improvement do you attribute to each individually? Impossible to say, in my opinion.

Cheers, Doc

It's a pretty good mod Doc. Quite popular among the old D390 crowd and it's tried and tested at this point. The difference is quite noticeable. You can also just stick the 2017+ sintered pads and be done with it. It is measurably much better than the old pads. The MC upgrade makes sense for those who have weak master cylinders on their old Dukes. Mine went weak within 3-4 years and needed yearly brake fluid replacement or the lever would touch my fingers (a bybre trait). I switched to an EBC sintered set within a year of ownership and never looked back. They are not that expensive back in 2016.

One thing great about the KTMs is the amount of OEM+ upgrades possible for the old models. Ofc, you don't have to go there if you feel the current brakes are adequate.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

Can either go for the Duke 200 MC kit which coast 1k or the Duke 390 MC kit which cost 3.5k. DOT 4 is widely available and 5.1 is available at selected places. The Authorised centers keep the generic Bajaj DOT 4.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

The Duke 200 MC is the same as the Duke 390 MC? If so, why is it more than 3 times cheaper? Also which Gen 200 and which Gen 390 MC are swappable upgrades? Any preferred DOT 5.1? Where do we get it from. Truly, the authorized center of Sai (first Karve Road, then Wagholi) has been my one stop shop for everything for 10+ years.

Originally Posted by b16h22

It's a pretty good mod Doc. Mine went weak within 3-4 years and needed yearly brake fluid replacement or the lever would touch my fingers (a bybre trait). I switched to an EBC sintered set within a year of ownership and never looked back. They are not that expensive back in 2016.

One thing great about the KTMs is the amount of OEM+ upgrades possible for the old models. Ofc, you don't have to go there if you feel the current brakes are adequate.

So you did not change the MC, but just the sintered pads? How much do these EBC ones cost now and how long will they last. I dont know how much life I have left in my front pads (which I will waste if I upgrade immediately). Will need to check.

Yes, my lever does come all the way in, touching my gloved fingers. Even squeezing as I squeeze harder. Was momentarily better after I resurrected my bike. Now its back in.

Cheers Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

So you did not change the MC, but just the sintered pads? How much do these EBC ones cost now and how long will they last. I dont know how much life I have left in my front pads (which I will waste if I upgrade immediately). Will need to check.

Cheers Doc

I wouldn't get the EBCs with current pricing. They are a good 3k+. Back then it was like 1500. The Brembo sintered pads from the second gen 390 onwards is the more affordable option and they are still a substantial improvement. They used to be 1500-2000. I agree that it's still a big jump from the price of the old pads. But quite affordable if you compare it to the aftermarket sintered options.

Didn't change the MC because I didn't have the budget and the pad change was enough for really strong bite. But then I did miss out on brake feel and the MC was always spongy. But at least the bike stopped on a dime. 100 bucks worth of brake fluid every year was a no brainer over the cost of the new MC

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

Didn't change the MC because I didn't have the budget and the pad change was enough for really strong bite. But then I did miss out on brake feel and the MC was always spongy. But at least the bike stopped on a dime. 100 bucks worth of brake fluid every year was a no brainer over the cost of the new MC

But Dhruv is saying "Duke 200 MC for 1000".

That's cheaper than even your old EBC price. And unlike the pads, the MC is a permanent fix and not a consumable.

Just trying to figure out the cost dynamics of the upgrade choices here. Its an illuminating discussion for me for sure.

I realise in the past 6-7 years it must have been rehashed here multiple times, so please bear with the grumpy old man.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But Dhruv is saying "Duke 200 MC for 1000".

That's cheaper than even your old EBC price. And unlike the pads, the MC is a permanent fix and not a consumable.

Just trying to figure out the cost dynamics of the upgrade choices here. Its an illuminating discussion for me for sure.

I realise in the past 6-7 years it must have been rehashed here multiple times, so please bear with the grumpy old man.

Cheers, Doc

The stock MC on the old bike is about 1k+ or thereabouts. iirc first gen D200 and 390 shared the MCs. But I'm not 100% sure. Maybe Dhruv was telling you to change your old MC so you get the new bike like brake feel back. These first gen MCs were notorious for going weak within a year or two. If you keep the stock pads and go with a slightly better MC, you are looking at better brake feel but not a great deal more bite. But if you upgrade the organic pads to a sintered set, you will get a noticeable upgrade in bite which was my aim in the first place. IMO, pads, MC, calipers should be the sequence of upgrades on a stock braking system if you are going down that path.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

The stock MC on the old bike is about 1k+ or thereabouts. iirc first gen D200 and 390 shared the MCs. But I'm not 100% sure. Maybe Dhruv was telling you to change your old MC so you get the new bike like brake feel back. These first gen MCs were notorious for going weak within a year or two. If you keep the stock pads and go with a slightly better MC, you are looking at better brake feel but not a great deal more bite. But if you upgrade the organic pads to a sintered set, you will get a noticeable upgrade in bite which was my aim in the first place. IMO, pads, MC, calipers should be the sequence of upgrades on a stock braking system if you are going down that path.

1) So the sintered fron pads sold as OE KTM spares are Brembo ones and should be better than the stock pads, but not as good as EBC.

2) I thought stock organic front brake pads have been discontinued across the board in favour of the sintered ones, and are not available anymore?

3) I too would like bite earlier and harder than the present, but I do not want to sacrifice my current feel for the feedback I get. I.e. I don't want to just get the lever moving in less, but sacrifice the road feedback from my front end that helps me modulate my front braking, even well into corners (yes).

4) @Dhruv to please clarify on the MC mods (1k vs 3.5k)

5) Which caliper could we change to and how much would that be? Bigger rotor too (320 vs 300)? How much would that be?

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

1) So the sintered fron pads sold as OE KTM spares are Brembo ones and should be better than the stock pads, but not as good as EBC.

2) I thought stock organic front brake pads have been discontinued across the board in favour of the sintered ones, and are not available anymore?

3) I too would like bite earlier and harder than the present, but I do not want to sacrifice my current feel for the feedback I get. I.e. I don't want to just get the lever moving in less, but sacrifice the road feedback from my front end that helps me modulate my front braking, even well into corners (yes).

4) @Dhruv to please clarify on the MC mods (1k vs 3.5k)

5) Which caliper could we change to and how much would that be? Bigger rotor too (320 vs 300)? How much would that be?

Cheers, Doc

1. Yes
2. Not sure. The sintered pads came on the second gen 390s
3. Difficult to tell unless you try it yourself.
5. Don't need a caliper change on the D390 honestly. Stock radially mounted calipers are very well up to the job. Which is why I said the order of the mods should be pads, then MC, then Caliper. If you get desirable results from pads itself, you can stop at this level or continue with other mods in that order