[Ricci]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Cool. Just remember the Duke is a better bike, bike for bike, than the Pulsar. If you have a pre-used hangup, then the discussion ends here. But your reasoning that I "only" want a commuter and don't want to race does not gel with me. Because which biker will turn his back on a better specced, better equipped, quicker, faster, better braking, better tyred, better handling (way, way), better sprung, better chassied, better fueled, better cooled, better geared, better seated bike just because:

1) It does not have projectors

2) It does not have a big tank

3) It does not have a 3/4 fairing with a faux "adventure" upright screen

Am I persistent or what?

Absolutely Doc, you are as persistent as a black mamba!

All the things you mention - better frame, suspension, tyres, brakes are geared towards performance, which is not the primary objective anymore - since I have a second *cough* weekend performance bike *cough* to satisfy that urge. Better seats on the KTM ? I think not !

While they may not have numbers attached to them, to show on a spec sheet, comfort via seating , ergonomics and softer tuned suspension are also desired attributes that those seeking as much performance, have to compromise on at times. Oh, that - and one could save some $$.

I'm not invalidating your point, Doc , after all that's why I still have the RC390 in the list, which will well serve the performance/weekend kicks. But for commuting/touring duty , good headlamps and large fuel capacity can be invaluable assets. That windshield too - why else are Duke riders fitting FZ windscreens to their nakeds ?
If performance was the be all, end all, then we would all be riding R-15s.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Ricci

Absolutely Doc, you are as persistent as a black mamba!

LOL I try

All the things you mention - better frame, suspension, tyres, brakes are geared towards performance, which is not the primary objective anymore - since I have a second *cough* weekend performance bike *cough* to satisfy that urge.

Your primary objective is commuter/occasional tourer. How can any of the above be a negative for that?

Better seats on the KTM ? I think not !

I have the same opinion about Pulsar seats. Its in the DNA of the bike. Regardless of which Nth avatar.

comfort via seating

I find the KTM seat better over long distances than my Bullet seats. My Bullet seats are on another planet compared to what my Pulsar's seat was.

ergonomics

Could you elaborate more on this?

softer tuned suspension

Once you've ridden a sporty stiff suspension, you'll never go back to soft/limp/squishy. Car or bike.

and one could save some $$.

A sparingly used 200 can be got significantly cheaper than a brand new AS.

I'm not invalidating your point, Doc , after all that's why I still have the RC390 in the list, which will well serve the performance/weekend kicks.

I'm confused now. You already have the Daytona for that. Or is the RC going to replace the Daytona? I thought the Tiger was .....

But for commuting/touring duty , good headlamps and large fuel capacity can be invaluable assets.

For touring yes. For commuting, not really. I would take a Duke 200 as the apex Indian predator commuter.

That windshield too - why else are Duke riders fitting FZ windscreens to their nakeds ?

I have no idea. Seeing as I was one of the first if not the first to plonk a FZ screen on to my 200 (across the "popular" forums), I used it for exactly a week before taking it off.

You can neither crouch properly with it, and in normal stance, it cuts your top end by 10+ kmph. Not acceptable.

If performance was the be all, end all, then we would all be riding R-15s.

Why? The R15 is slow.

[Abhi_abarth]

So I have developed this itch from past few months which is only getting aggravated day by day. I own a Honda unicorn 2007 model and have clocked 75 K so far. The bike is a true workhorse and has being serving me quite well. My only grouse is this one suffers from the infamous 'compression loss' problem. I guess this was the issue with certain batches. Had changed the valves 5 times till date !!! Yes, 5 times and the piston once. Changing the engine block would help but I don't want to spend money on it anymore. I use it for my daily office commute which is 56 KM (with light traffic) to and fro and it returns me a good fuel economy of 56 + consistently on these city conditions.The engine is becoming more harsh day by day and the final nail in the coffin is my recent purchase of a pre-worshipped palio S10. This car has spoiled me now and I am looking for the same kind of adrenaline rush in a two wheeler.

I have listed out my priorities below :

1. Not the 150 CCs anymore. Anything between 200 to 250 cc.
2. Budget 1.5 to 2 Lakhs
3. Easy driveability in city as I will be using it 95% for office commute. Might start highway crunching too.
4. Hassle free ownership.
5. ABS (must have)
6. Comfortable driving posture. This is important as I experience lower back pain sometimes. This pain was quite unbearable last year but somehow vanished. Consulted an ortho with the spine xray and he confirmed no issues as such with the backbone. Strangely, I am not experiencing the pain anymore since Aug 2014 after changing my exercise routine.

7. Smooth engine and no body rattles/vibrations

So considering the above I could think only the following bikes which are close :

1. RE Thunder bird 350 : This is the only bike I like in the RE stable. Has the premiumish feel and is comfortable too. But I have kept this is a last option.

2. Pulsar 200 NS : Have been following this since the launch and I feel this a very close contender. Returns good average and also doesn't have that sporty riding position. But I fear the NVH and reliability issues.

3. Pulsar 200 RS : Good looks and has ABS too (single channel though). But I feel the fairing is over done. Need to check out the vehicle in flesh and decide.

4. Honda CBR250R-ABS : My most preferred of all the choices. I just love this bike though this is in a different segment I am still giving it a try. I have checked with three different dealers and none of them have a test ride bike, not even a demo vehicle. Some dealers say the company has stopped the production and some say they are only clearing the stock at the plant. Have written to Honda enquiring on a rumored facelift but as usual haven't heard anything from them.


Bikes not considered :

KTM duke 200/RC 200 : Too raw and sporty for my liking.
Karizma : Loved the previous versions but the current one is royally screwed.
Yamaha R15 : Sporty Riding position & 150 cc engine (though it's tuned well).


I haven't ridden any of these bikes but will start the test rides pretty soon. To be honest I don't even know if I should be upgrading now.

Request all the biking gurus to enlighten and guide me take the right decision.

Cheers,
Abhi

[apachelongbow]

Anyone considering a RE as their primary ride, please be aware, it requires regular attention from you regarding maintenance, tightening all bolts, bits and chains, regular lubing and servicing and careful watch-out for rust or loose parts. It is certainly not a fill it, forget it kind of a bike.
The perfect commuter if price permits is a Benelli 300 or the Kawasaki 250, I think the best would be a Suzuki Inazuma, but I believe it is not in production anymore.
For the more budget conscious, please consider the Pulsar 200 or a Karizma, the Duke 200/390 are more sporty, and would serve as a perfect track tool rather than everyday commute.

[praful]

Originally Posted by Ricci

Plugs are good but will check them (iridium ones rarely go bad). Fuel pump was also changed late last year.

On the contrary the iridium ones do tend to have one off issues. I switched over to iridium early on in the first 3 months itself and have been using it until recently. But last 2-3 times I've got plugs that have gone kaput in less than 10K kms, which is barely 1/3rd of their duty cycle.

Originally Posted by Ricci

Fuel filter was replaced this year, air filter about 2+ years ago. So injector/throttle body is where the issue seems to be. Trouble is finding an ASC with the FI diagnostic tool, that's not too busy to do a good job.

More than time its the kilometers clocked that govern the change interval for the filters. 5K for fuel filter and 10K for air filter.

Any of the service stations servicing the Duke should be able to help you with tuning. I am surprised that being in Pune you're having trouble getting good Bajaj service.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Cool. Just remember the Duke is a better bike, bike for bike, than the Pulsar. If you have a pre-used hangup, then the discussion ends here. But your reasoning that I "only" want a commuter and don't want to race does not gel with me. Because which biker will turn his back on a better specced, better equipped, quicker, faster, better braking, better tyred, better handling (way, way), better sprung, better chassied, better fueled, better cooled, better geared, better seated bike just because:

1) It does not have projectors

2) It does not have a big tank

3) It does not have a 3/4 fairing with a faux "adventure" upright screen

Am I persistent or what?

Agreed on all counts, except one point where it looses out despite better seats and better specced suspension is comfort. Especially if one rides more around the B roads than GQ'esque roads.

Originally Posted by Ricci

Better seats on the KTM ? I think not !

Actually, doc is right. The seats on the Duke are brilliant, I could ride that thing all day long if was not for the damn frequent fuel stops

I've ridden both the D200 and D390 for a few long rides (1K ish weekend rides) and I was totally blown away by the seat. I did get ankle pain though initially due to the awkard rear set, took some time getting used to.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by praful

Agreed on all counts, except one point where it looses out despite better seats and better specced suspension is comfort. Especially if one rides more around the B roads than GQ'esque roads.

Well, KTM has never claimed the Duke to be anything but a street fighter meant for primarily urban duties. Its we who use it all over. Though yes, the Bullet is more comfortable (largely due to its size/weight/tyres) offroad than the Duke is. Plus I don't have to be frightened of bashing peacefully at decent speeds and breaking a wheel.

Actually, doc is right. The seats on the Duke are brilliant, I could ride that thing all day long if was not for the damn frequent fuel stops

I've ridden both the D200 and D390 for a few long rides (1K ish weekend rides) and I was totally blown away by the seat. I did get ankle pain though initially due to the awkard rear set, took some time getting used to.

Exactly right. The Duke seat was a revelation for me. Taller guys (or those with longer legs to torso ratio) do have some issues with cramping/discomfort of various parts of the leg (for me its more often front of the thighs and sometimes the calves) which require stretching, change in position etc. intermittently while riding, to stretch and relax the problem muscle groups. But this happens typically to me after some 350-400 kms in the saddle (4-5 hours or two tankfuls). Which is really not bad.

The Bullet in comparison is very kind on the legs, but the bums (even with that wide sofa) take a beating much earlier than the Duke.

My Pulsar, on a ride of 450 kms (Pune Dharwad), I used to stop every 100+ kms and site on those big sharp stones they do road construction with (those days the GQ was still being built) to offer acupressure type exquisite relief to excruciatingly painfully inflamed bums.

[Abhi_abarth]

My Dear Gurus/friends, please help me with my questions. Refer to the post # 138

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

My Dear Gurus/friends, please help me with my questions. Refer to the post # 138

Consider the Pulsar 200 AS as well.

The CBR is the most accomplished in your shortlist. If you like its feel, go for it. Its got power, refinement, big manufacturer quality, and is pretty unstressed and still moves very well.

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

This car has spoiled me now and I am looking for the same kind of adrenaline rush in a two wheeler.

4. Honda CBR250R-ABS : My most preferred of all the choices.

Bikes not considered :

KTM duke 200/RC 200 : Too raw and sporty for my liking.

From your shortlist, the best choice is CBR250R-ABS. Good performance coupled with Honda reliability and butter smooth engine. I am sure you will feel right at home, but the challenge is getting a TD.

Since you said you haven't ridden the shortlisted bikes, do take a TD of Duke 200 also. I was almost in your same position (upgrading from Unicorn) and found the perfect upgrade in Duke 200. The bike is an ultimate commuter - sharp handling, cracker performance when required, superb seating and amazing flick-ability. Also, not much plastics, so less rattle prone and if you like to take your bike off the road, Duke will reward you beautifully.

--Anoop

[Rohit_Quad]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

This car has spoiled me now and I am looking for the same kind of adrenaline rush in a two wheeler.

Having driven a unicorn for 64K kms single handed, i can understand your dilemma of letting go of that bike. I know it has a sedate kind of charm. But since you want a bit more "adrenaline" and looking at all your requirements, i would say the 200 AS is the best bet also considering your 6th requirement.

The only thing it misses on is the ABS. Go and have a look at the bike in flesh first and I guess u'll like it. Go for T.D and try to rip her in 3rd till the red line. I was blown away during a TD, back when the NS was released. The NS engine doesn't feel like any Pulsar and the AS being carburetored (RS - FI), means much less to go wrong in the long run - Point 4 ( the reason why i went for the 220FS in 2009 over the ZMR).

Also Both the Thunderbird and the Ns lack ABS and the CBR 250 is on it's way out. The 200RS is a complete package, but looks are subjective. Good luck with your search.

[Abhi_abarth]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Consider the Pulsar 200 AS as well.

The CBR is the most accomplished in your shortlist. If you like its feel, go for it. Its got power, refinement, big manufacturer quality, and is pretty unstressed and still moves very well.

Sure Sir, I will check the CBR too but the Honda guys are yet to get back to me on my TD request.

The only difference between the AS and NS is the fairing and projector headlamps right ? Or any mechanical differences too ?

Originally Posted by theexperthand

From your shortlist, the best choice is CBR250R-ABS. Good performance coupled with Honda reliability and butter smooth engine. I am sure you will feel right at home, but the challenge is getting a TD.

Since you said you haven't ridden the shortlisted bikes, do take a TD of Duke 200 also.

Doesn't the Duke have the racer riding position ? wouldn't it be a problem in traffic then ? anyways let me still do a test ride and see.

Originally Posted by Rohit_Quad

Having driven a unicorn for 64K kms single handed, i can understand your dilemma of letting go of that bike. I know it has a sedate kind of charm. But since you want a bit more "adrenaline" and looking at all your requirements, i would say the 200 AS is the best bet also considering your 6th requirement.

The only thing it misses on is the ABS. Go and have a look at the bike in flesh first and I guess u'll like it. Go for T.D and try to rip her in 3rd till the red line. I was blown away during a TD, back when the NS was released. The NS engine doesn't feel like any Pulsar and the AS being carburetored (RS - FI), means much less to go wrong in the long run - Point 4 ( the reason why i went for the 220FS in 2009 over the ZMR).

Also Both the Thunderbird and the Ns lack ABS and the CBR 250 is on it's way out. The 200RS is a complete package, but looks are subjective. Good luck with your search.

Let me check the AS, NS and RS. But primarily i like the naked stance of NS. I feel the AS and RS are quire heavy with fairings which are prone for rattles in the longrun. Of all the three 200 siblings I feel the NS has the aggressive stance which I am looking for. But let me check them out in flesh and test ride and see.


Regarding the CBR can anybody tell me what's the fuel average it delivers for a sedate ride. I know we shouldn't even be asking while thinking of this bike but anything between 35 to 40 should be fine for me.


Thank you all again.

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

Doesn't the Duke have the racer riding position ? wouldn't it be a problem in traffic then ? anyways let me still do a test ride and see.

Duke do have an aggressive riding position compared to Unicorn, but it is not as committed as R15 or RC. Once you master it, this position will be addictive.

I ride around 60 KM in traffic (translates to 2.5 to 3 hours of riding time often) and have not faced any issues - in fact, now when I ride my Unicorn, I am not happy with the riding position

--Anoop

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

Sure Sir, I will check the CBR too but the Honda guys are yet to get back to me on my TD request.

You seem to like the aggressive stance of the NS. Then scratch the CBR (especially if its likely to be shelved).

The only difference between the AS and NS is the fairing and projector headlamps right ? Or any mechanical differences too ?

No idea bro. Dig deeper. Visit the showroom, read the forums or talk to riders. The front fairing of the AS is actually pretty nicely done. But the NS is a striking looking bike as well. The RS is not my cup of tea or coffee, to put it mildly.

Doesn't the Duke have the racer riding position ? wouldn't it be a problem in traffic then ? anyways let me still do a test ride and see.

The Duke is a wide chest open upright riding position with arms bent and elbows lifted up and out in attack mode. If the NS is aggressive, then the Duke takes it to another plane.

[Abhi_abarth]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You seem to like the aggressive stance of the NS. Then scratch the CBR (especially if its likely to be shelved).

The Duke is a wide chest open upright riding position with arms bent and elbows lifted up and out in attack mode. If the NS is aggressive, then the Duke takes it to another plane.

Thank you Doctor Saab ! So the final contenders are :

Duke 200 &
Pulsar NS/AS

Well check these three and will write down my observations.

Also, I was browsing through the KTM website while ago and see that the 2015 200 versions are equipped with ABS. Is this a silent upgrade or was i dumb not to notice that they came with ABS since the launch date.

Here are the specs taken from the website :

Source : http://www.ktm.com/in/naked-bike/200-duke/?color=ORANGE


CHASSIS
FRAME DESIGN
Tubular space frame made from steel tubes, powder-coated
FRONT SUSPENSION
WP upside-down Ø 43 mm
REAR SUSPENSION
WP monoshock
SUSPENSION TRAVEL (FRONT)
150 mm
SUSPENSION TRAVEL (REAR)
150 mm
FRONT BRAKE
Four-piston radial fixed calliper
REAR BRAKE
Single-piston floating calliper
FRONT BRAKE DISC DIAMETER
300 mm
REAR BRAKE DISC DIAMETER
230 mm
ABS
Bosch 9MB two-channel ABS
CHAIN
X-Ring 5/8 x 1/4"
STEERING HEAD ANGLE
65 °
WHEELBASE
1367 ± 15 mm
GROUND CLEARANCE
170 mm
SEAT HEIGHT
800 mm
TANK CAPACITY (APPROX.)
11 l
WEIGHT READY TO RACE (WITHOUT FUEL)
129.5 kg

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

Also, I was browsing through the KTM website while ago and see that the 2015 200 versions are equipped with ABS. Is this a silent upgrade or was i dumb not to notice that they came with ABS since the launch date.

No the Duke 200 never had ABS. Not sure about now. But unlikely such a massive change would be introduced and not heralded or discussed anywhere. I don't think the NS has ABS either. What about the AS? If you go for the Pulsars, definitely try to upgrade the rubber from the showroom directly. I don't know if the Duke's rear rubber will fit, but it would be a worthy upgrade to what are pretty sad tyres on a performance machine for the Pulsar.