[jlukose]

What other motorcycles in the 400cc category comes with engine fitted as stressed member? Is it only Himalayan?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Because the engine is hanging on 3 bolts

Hanging yes. But its supported by bolts at the bottom too, front and rear. The "hanging" is less hanging and more to stabilize the vibrating cylinder and head. This was mentioned in a very early post.

Originally Posted by jlukose

What other motorcycles in the 400cc category comes with engine fitted as stressed member? Is it only Himalayan?

All old Bullets. 350 and 500.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by jlukose

What other motorcycles in the 400cc category comes with engine fitted as stressed member? Is it only Himalayan?

Pretty much all modern bikes have engine as a stressed member except for a few hardcore ADVs and classics. It's not a new thing. In the 400 class, KTMs, Triumphs, Harley/Hero, J series REs etc have engine as stressed member.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Point to ponder ...

Absolutely agreed, is this the first bike in india where after market crash guards are fitted? Look at the zillion Splendours, CD100's, bullets with after market crash guards and we never heard about such issues.

OLA scooter had similar issues and the design was rectified, people will not stop putting after market fittings on bike, but that should not snap a bike like this. If RE already knows this can be an issue there are two things here 1) The bike is not tested as per real conditions 2) What is the technical reason why himalayan doesnt have a double cradle frame?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by silverado

2) What is the technical reason why himalayan doesnt have a double cradle frame?

Vibrations?

I remember the Zundapp Fury issues of the engine ripping itself loose from its un-damped cradle housing and foundation bolts.

Cheers, Doc

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by silverado

Absolutely agreed, is this the first bike in india where after market crash guards are fitted? Look at the zillion Splendours, CD100's, bullets with after market crash guards and we never heard about such issues.

OLA scooter had similar issues and the design was rectified, people will not stop putting after market fittings on bike, but that should not snap a bike like this. If RE already knows this can be an issue there are two things here 1) The bike is not tested as per real conditions 2) What is the technical reason why himalayan doesnt have a double cradle frame?

There was a similar issue on the Tiger 900, fixing crash guards resulted in cracked frame, only fix was to change the frame. As far as i remember triumph asked the customers to pay for the frame as well. There were a few cases in India. Only certain design of crash guard were ok. I hope the recent 2024 model triumph has improved the design.

[PreludeSH]

I think it was Lotus that first did this engine as stressed member in race car long time ago. It was used to add rigidity/stiffness, reduce weight and improve handling with lower CG . Not sure how much it helps in 2 wheelers since weight reduction is not significant.

Maybe its cost mostly and reduced weight which are important for RE

Why would anyone provide the means to attach crash guard to the important engine mountpoint ? Shouldn't they provide some other attachment part ?

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

I think it was Lotus that first did this engine as stressed member in race car long time ago. It was used to add rigidity/stiffness, reduce weight and improve handling with lower CG . Not sure how much it helps in 2 wheelers since weight reduction is not significant.

Maybe its cost mostly and reduced weight which are important for RE

There are lots of expensive bikes which come with engine as stressed member, i dont think there is any reason to doubt this design choice.

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

There are lots of expensive bikes which come with engine as stressed member, i dont think there is any reason to doubt this design choice.

Not doubting it. It needs better engineering and design for the integrity of the vehicle which is precisely what we are not seeing here.

[true_sedan]

I would blame Royal Enfield fully for this issue for the following reasons:

1) They constantly speak about how they listen to customers when designing and developing a motorcycle. If at all they had listened properly, they must know that Royal Enfield bikes are one of the most accessorized bikes in the Indian market. So the question of chassis breakage shouldn't have arose, if this variable was incorporated at design stage.

2) Royal Enfield should've provided a manual of torque specifications for every bolt and nut in the bike. It's partly their responsibility too because they know atleast 50% of the owners go for after market accessories.

If it indeed a design flaw, we'd be seeing more of these incidents soon. And then, only then can someone be held accountable.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

If it indeed a design flaw, we'd be seeing more of these incidents soon. And then, only then can someone be held accountable.

Wait for if or when a new Himalayan breaks without crash guards. Or company fitted crash guards. As I said in a previous post, even then they could potentially claim that the owner removed them before presenting to the workshop. Or find a completely different reason and sush the owner up by offering him a new chassis with all labour and child parts taken care of. All of us are bikers. In such a situation ask yourself what you are interested in. Getting your bike back on the road, or a long drawn out legal battle. And what most will choose. Even if hypothetically the company has to do this for 100s of customers, on an individual one on one basis, India is so big and owners so spread out that chances are remote that such replacements (if indeed done) would come ro light inadvertently. Or done in the public open service bays, to attract unwanted questions.

The other possibility that a company would take is accept that there is a problem and issue a recall. We know that the old Himalayan had multiple cases of the chassis breaking. There was no theory of after market crash guards then. What happened? Individual customers were offered chassis replacements on a one on one as happened as needed basis. Did the company ever admit that the bike had a chassis problem and order a recall? Not that I know of. Even then we heard the same arguments. That there are thousands if bikes running, all over Ladakh, that have not (yet) broken. As some form of absolution and eventual abdication of blanket responsibility as the manufacturer. Then quietly a new version is introduced, that is significantly heavier, where RE throws metal at the problem, and eventually tom toms a round tubing frame in place of the square section tubing of the original. So the obvious question that went unasked ... what sin did the 1000s of other owners of those initial bikes commit to not get the more (not completely because V2.0 still broke!) reliable new chassis also? That their bikes had not yet broken? So instead they are resigned to riding in fear for if and when their bike too would break.

Compare this to a company like Shimano. They eventually admitted that their Ultegra and DuraAce series cranks suffered from a problem of delamination, where the bonded halves of the hollowed cranks (for weight saving) would seperate eventually with resulting catastrophic crank failure. Shimano issued an open ended recall and replacement for ALL cranks with that design. Which means regardless of when you bought that crank, you can replace it any time, and even if you ise it and it breaks 10 years later, you can bring it in still and get it replaced. I am NOT suggesting that RE is to blame here, yet, but I am pointing out what has transpired in the past as historical public record in the first versions of the same bike.

Cheers, Doc

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

If it indeed a design flaw, we'd be seeing more of these incidents soon. And then, only then can someone be held accountable.

Accountable? How? They must be having a full legal team to deal with any case/s that arise from this or anything else. Imagine how many years of life and money would one be willing to invest in this sort of thing to bring it to any sort of conclusion and that too there is no guarantee that the person who files a case would win because Royal Enfield will play a proper game of smoke and mirrors to absolve themselves from any blame.

Cheers

[tech_rider]

My crashguard installation (moto torque) is at lower end of the frame. From recent discussions in this thread, I understand that this part is called the foundation bolt. And this is dangerous place to do mounting of any accessories. I should now start worrying about the frame damage for every ride. Any other moto torque crashguard users here?

[100Kmphormore]

Please uninstall these crash guards and rely on OE protection. They are more like plumbing. Not only do these void the warranty, the suspicion of improper torquing the screws during installation and in some cases the vibration upon installation is not worth it. Zana, Motor Torque etc are still relative newbies in my opinion with their testing leaving a lot to be desired while there are almost no complaints from the superbike/luxury ADV guard makers like RnG, Hepco Becker etc.

In my slips and subsequent hard landings during offroading with my exHimalayan, the company crash guard design actually helped to crash better while I walked away on the mud, without trapping my leg, or touching the exhaust pipe coming from the engine near the right foot brake lever, without much damage to either the upper portion of bike or guard, they only bend at worst case. Also, saw this in a bad crash on the Mysuru expressway when another Himalayan had only bent handlebars, mirrors and the extremely scratched stock engine guards bent. The fact that you can hold the company responsible fully is extremely comforting, insurance will cover your costs while there might be some wait for the parts being a 6 month old model. Do not trust Youtubers or instagrammers on this they are mere marketers.

[ebonho]

https://youtu.be/OXWvqt4A5L8?si=C5ncBmVS4tikxA_3

Haven't seen the whole thing yet. In Hindi. Compares the Himalayan frame to the KTM Adventure frame. The pivot points. Lever arms. Cross truss linkages. Angles. Let me know what you guys think.

Cheers, Doc