[Alfaholic]

I got my B500 serviced 2 weeks back and since then the bike hasn't been used due to covid 19 lockdown. Today morning I thought of starting the bike and a ride around the compound.

Bike started in first kick without any issues and I idled it close to a minute and the moment I put it in gear it turned off.

I again started it in centre stand and idled close to 5 minutes. When I put it in gear I can see that the rear wheel rotates a little more than usual. I rode around a bit and it didn't turn off. But the engine sound changed the moment I am out of centre stand (rear wheels on the ground with 1st gear and clutch pulled). It sounded like the bike is slightly off the clutch but the bike doesn't move.
During the service, I did change swing arm bush and oil (with chain lubing, tightening and the likes).

The bike has done 36k kms.
What could be the issue?

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

I got my B500 serviced 2 weeks back and since then the bike hasn't been used due to covid 19 lockdown. Today morning I thought of starting the bike and a ride around the compound.

Bike started in first kick without any issues and I idled it close to a minute and the moment I put it in gear it turned off.

I again started it in centre stand and idled close to 5 minutes. When I put it in gear I can see that the rear wheel rotates a little more than usual. I rode around a bit and it didn't turn off. But the engine sound changed the moment I am out of centre stand (rear wheels on the ground with 1st gear and clutch pulled). It sounded like the bike is slightly off the clutch but the bike doesn't move.
During the service, I did change swing arm bush and oil (with chain lubing, tightening and the likes).

The bike has done 36k kms.
What could be the issue?

Several things come to mind.
The RE 500's have a "wet clutch" meaning, the clutch plates are lubricated with engine oil. While this does provide a smooth clutch after the clutch plates break free, after sitting overnight with the engine oil cool, the clutch plates tend to stick together. When this happens, if the engine is started and you pull in the clutch lever and shift the transmission into gear, the stationary gears will try to stop the engine.
Running the engine, even for a long time before you try to shift the motorcycle into gear, won't cause the plates to lose their temporary grip on each other.

The solution for this is, before starting the engine, swing out the kick start lever. Then, pull in the clutch lever and hold it in this position while you try to push the kick starter down.
The lever will move slightly and then give a large amount of resistance to further movement. When this happens, push the lever harder. The clutch plates will suddenly lose their grip on one another and allow the kick starter lever to move further down easily.
After doing this, release the clutch lever and proceed to start the engine and ride normally.

Another thing that can aggravate the situation is, if the clutch lever was not adjusted correctly by the mechanic, the clutch may not be releasing completely.
You should check the free play of the clutch lever.
To do this, stand in front of the motorcycle and lightly push the clutch lever towards the handle bar. It should move freely creating a gap between the moving lever and the stationary support where the clutch cable attaches.
This gap should measure about 2 to 3 mm. If it is greater than this, pulling in the clutch lever will not fully release the clutch. Without being fully released, a good deal of the engines power will be needed to overcome the drag thru the clutch and this can easily stall the engine.

The incorrect adjustment will also increase the possibility of damaging the gears in the transmission when it is shifted from neutral into gear.

As for the rear wheel rotating while the motorcycle is resting on the center stand with the transmission in gear: Even with the clutch lever pulled in, there is some drag between the clutch plates. This drag will transmit a small amount of power thru the clutch and if the motorcycle is resting on the center stand with the rear wheel not touching the ground, the wheel will rotate.
If the transmission is in neutral with the motorcycle resting on the center stand and the engine is running, often, the rear wheel will rotate.
This is caused by the engine oil transmitting a small amount of power thru the gears and even though the transmission is in neutral, there may be enough transmitted power to rotate the output sprocket.
The tendency to do this depends on how thick the engine oil is so if the oil is relatively cool, more power will be transmitted.

[sad:)]

I have a few questions. Refer attached pics
1. What is this component in the tool box. Circled. I could not find it connected anywhere.
2. I have notice a few bullets with a feedback line from carburetor to airfilter box. Is this a real benefit? Which is the right out line from carb to be connected? I notice two open output lines from Carb.. But never realized anything flowing out.

Redards,
Sada

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by sad:)

I have a few questions. Refer attached pics
1. What is this component in the tool box. Circled. I could not find it connected anywhere.
2. I have notice a few bullets with a feedback line from carburetor to airfilter box. Is this a real benefit? Which is the right out line from carb to be connected? I notice two open output lines from Carb.. But never realized anything flowing out.

Redards,
Sada

I believe the part circled in the photo is the Pulsed Air Valve or, PAV. It appears to be disconnected.

The PAV is a part of the emission system that burns off any fuel that didn't burn in the combustion chamber of the engine. It does this by "injecting" fresh air into the exhaust, right below the exhaust valve.

Here is a basic idea of how this system works.

When the air/fuel mixture burns in the combustion chamber and cylinder, not all of the fuel burns.
As the burned fumes leave the cylinder thru the exhaust valve they create a high positive gas pressure below the exhaust valve and in the upper part of the exhaust pipe.
As this high pressure pulse travels down the exhaust, it creates a negative pressure or suction right behind it.
If there is a air passage that leads into the area right below the exhaust valve, this negative air pressure will suck fresh air into that area.
The fresh air will mix with the extremely hot exhaust and burn off any fuel that remains in the exhaust mixture.
The purpose of the PAV is to keep the high pressure exhaust gas in the exhaust pipe and to keep it from blowing back thru the valve and into the engines inlet as it is leaving the cylinder but then open rapidly to allow the fresh air from the fresh air supply into that same area when the negative pulse happens.

The PAV should be connected to the air filter and often, the carburetor to get its fresh, filtered air supply and connected to a fitting on the cylinder head in the area of the exhaust. (That's the connection you see on your air filter housing.)

Many people disconnect the connections to the carburetor and the cylinder under the false idea that the PAV system reduces engine power. ( It does not.)
If someone disconnected your PAV on purpose, they should have installed a pug on the air connection by the exhaust valve. If they didn't you will have a exhaust leak.


Whether you want to have it hooked back up is up to you.

[sad:)]

Thanks Arizona Jim, for a detailed explanation. The bike in question is lightning 535. I was always wondering why there is a tube protruding right after exhaust port on the exhaust pipe.. Now I can connect the dots. Does any one know that lightning 535 ever came with this full setup in production?

Just to summarize my understanding, the connection goes like.. Air filter - - > PAV - - > tube on exhaust.

I could not understand, your point about the carburetor.. How is this connected in this whole PAV setup? Is this a separate connection from Carb to air filter shown in my se ond pic?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by sad:)

I could not understand, your point about the carburetor.. How is this connected in this whole PAV setup? Is this a separate connection from Carb to air filter shown in my se ond pic?

This video will help make understanding the SAI easy;

air suction valve function

To put simply it is not worth the effort. Delete it and make sure to close;

1. SAI Port after Exhaust Valve.
2. SAI Port on Intake Manifold.
3. SAI Port on Air Filter Box.
4. SAI Valve Port on Carburetor, common on CV carburetors, might be lacking on yours since you have a Cable Slide carburetor.

As for the pictures of the carburetor you've shared those two ports are sealed. But the port in the middle of the carb is its breather, there usually is a pipe that's present there that isn't connected to anything, it is just there to make sure water doesn't come into contact.

You could simply connect a small pipe there and then connect the other end to the air box.

BTW, a Fan of the Lightening 535 myself, haven't spent enough time with one to be of assistance to you though.

Cheers,
A.P.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by sad:)

Thanks Arizona Jim, for a detailed explanation. The bike in question is lightning 535. I was always wondering why there is a tube protruding right after exhaust port on the exhaust pipe.. Now I can connect the dots. Does any one know that lightning 535 ever came with this full setup in production?

Just to summarize my understanding, the connection goes like.. Air filter - - > PAV - - > tube on exhaust.

I could not understand, your point about the carburetor.. How is this connected in this whole PAV setup? Is this a separate connection from Carb to air filter shown in my se ond pic?

The below pictures is how it would have looked and yes it came with all the 500's and 535's so the 'hot-tube' exhaust which these bikes came with worked effectively. It was a type of cat-con.

The 350's back then didn't have this and started coming with a similar set up, not on the bend pipe, but on the head around 2007-08 along with the AVL engines, when the cat-con was fitted at the end of the bend pipe. From what I read up when I first saw this on my 500 was that it helps in reducing emission along with the cat-con in the exhaust system. For some reason, most of the mechanics disconnected this and plugged the opening on the bend pipe saying it affects efficiency.

The last picture is of a 2002 Cast iron Bullet which had that valve on the intake which connects to the resonator box and a screw to adjust.
This bike neither had the PAV nor a cat-con.Apart from the running in period when it was slightly open, it was always closed as I felt it affected the combustion negatively.

[adrian]

After the current lock down session a problem has crept up my Royal Enfield Standard UCE 350, 2011 model.

I am having intermittent difficulty in slotting the bike into first gear. 95% of the time it is like hot knife in butter. But then some times you push down the lever and nothing happens..it won't slot. Then you have to release the clutch lever, pull it back in and try. Then the first gear will engage with a clunk. No problems up shifting or downshifting while in other gears. This problem rears its head mostly while trying to move on from a traffic signal.

My clutch lever free play is as per factory specs.
My mileage is 51k plus.
I am running on my OEM clutch plates . The motorcycle easily pulls above 80 Km/hr. No power loss and the like.
Drive chain free play is as per spec.

Thank you in advance.
regards adrian

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by adrian

After the current lock down session a problem has crept up my Royal Enfield Standard UCE 350, 2011 model.

I am having intermittent difficulty in slotting the bike into first gear. 95% of the time it is like hot knife in butter. But then some times you push down the lever and nothing happens..it won't slot. Then you have to release the clutch lever, pull it back in and try. Then the first gear will engage with a clunk. No problems up shifting or downshifting while in other gears. This problem rears its head mostly while trying to move on from a traffic signal.

My clutch lever free play is as per factory specs.
My mileage is 51k plus.
I am running on my OEM clutch plates . The motorcycle easily pulls above 80 Km/hr. No power loss and the like.
Drive chain free play is as per spec.

Thank you in advance.
regards adrian

The most likely thing that would cause your problem is the clutch cable has stretched and needs adjustment.
To check for this problem, lightly push on the clutch lever with one finger until resistance to further movement is felt and check the gap that opens up where the lever meets the lever support. The gap should be 2 to 3 mm.
If it is greater than this, the cable needs to be adjusted.

To adjust the cable, find the other end where it connects to the clutch release arm on the left side of the engine.
Loosen the hex locknut and screw the adjuster that is screwed into the engines side case out just a little bit. Lightly tighten the lock nut with your fingers and then recheck the gap between the clutch lever and the support like you did before. If the gap is now within its working range, tighten the lock nut.

About the clunk you hear when the gearbox is shifted into 1st gear:
This is normal for a motorcycle gearbox.
The cause is, the gears have projections or lugs on their sides. When you shift gears, the gears slide sideways which engages these lugs with one another. If one gear is rotating and the other one is moving slower or is stationary there will be a clunk when they engage.
The transmission is built to take this sort of thing so don't worry about it.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by adrian

some times you push down the lever and nothing happens..it won't slot.

Presuming that this really is an issue.

Mount the motorcycle on its main stand and with the rear wheel off the ground, start the engine and shift 1~5~1, 1~N~1, 1~2~1 etc.. without pulling in the clutch as there is no load on transmission due to rear wheel being off the ground.

If the issue persists then you need to have a closer look at the transmission, else you'd have to have a closer look at the clutch.

A way to get the 1st gear to always slot in is to keep applying pressure(moderate, never apply brute force) to shifter and gently release the clutch lever, within a few mm's you'd have a perfect slot, by design constant mesh transmissions only shift well when the rear Tyre is moving or when there is no load on the rear Tyre.

Personally the only time I shift to Neutral is when I'm idling her on the stand for whatever reason or I'm pushing the motorcycle, else the Engine Kill switch suffices, in fact I've never stopped at a signal in Neutral, ensures that if some idiot rear ends me I not fall in front of oncoming traffic.

Cheers,
A.P.

[ukalia]

Hi

I have a Thunderbird 500. As the bike had started to consume oil and it was throwing smoke, I asked ASS to change the piston. But due to the lockdown and COVID-19, I am not able to take out the bike regularly. But I want to keep the bike in running condition as the piston is new and has not completed the break in period of even 500 KMS. If I start the bike everyday and let it idle for 10-15 minutes, will it adversely effect the piston? Please advise.

[ArizonaJim]

Running the engine should not cause a problem and running it for 10 to 15 minutes is a good idea.
Just don't let the engine overheat.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ukalia

If I start the bike everyday and let it idle for 10-15 minutes, will it adversely effect the piston? Please advise.

Not from a Royal Enfield's manual, but the information is universal for air cooled machines;



Nothing would happen to the piston/cylinder kit and fact be told you need not be bothered about the 500 km's of run in, ride the motorcycle when possible and that is all there's to it, don't bother with excessively idling the machine, it does way more bad than good.

Ride Safe.

[SourabH007]

Hello everyone, 20 days back one of my friends just bought a Royal Enfield Classic 350, Chrome Black colour.

First Look







It was all good at the time of delivery, but now some yellow colour tinge is forming on the exhaust pipe.

Yellow Tinge portion


After 20 Days




Is it some quality issue or something is wrong in the bike? Kindly suggest.

[Manoj2268]

Hello team,

Are the frames of old CI and the UCE bullets identical?

My friend's bullet 350 with the old CI engine has its frame rotted out due to rust. The critical load bearing locations and bolt holes are all rotted due to living close to the sea.

He's thinking of a frame replacement as the rest of the motorcycle is decently holding up.

If the frames are identical, we can simply transfer over the parts from the old to the new.

Bullet experts, please help.