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Old 1st September 2020, 14:31   #46
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Okay, so without mincing words, I would say that after driving MS Dzire diesel AMT for a good amount of time, I would NEVER want to go back to AMT. It is inferior and sucks. It felt cheap in a million rupee car which someone in our close relations had (he was tired of AMT jerks and sold it off). Yes, as some of you might know that I drive Creta diesel TC and it's not a fair comparison between the two but AMT just feels off. So off that it takes away all the other good driving dynamics of a car. But that's just my opinion and I respect opinions of liking AMTs, but for me, it just doesn't cut it.

On the review, thank you so much for the insights. I think iMT is going to be a game changer as long as it is marketed correctly and won't have any long term reliability issues.
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Old 1st September 2020, 14:44   #47
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_narender View Post
There is a caution that says not to press brake pedal by mistake during gearshift. Does this mean not to press brake pedal while the car is in motion or right before taking off after starting the car?
As we apply the brake while engaging a gear in MT & AT right before taking off. We also apply the brake while taking a turn to slow down & we shift gears (say 3rd to 2nd) in MT.

Neo
I think I know exactly what it means here, because it has happended to me.

This happens when anyone who has always driven a manual and switches to an Automatic, or a car without a clutch.
Now this happened to me a couple of years back, I was down to my native place and to visit different relatives I needed a car. There was a spare i10 automatic which i had borrowed and I was driving around in that and had gotten used to the automatic. I was very carefully driving since my left leg was not used to be resting like this.I was concious all the time. I had driven around 100 kms on Day1. Now i felt pretty confident with the automatic. 2nd day late evening, after doing some rounds to friends and relative when i was going home, i was pulling on to a highway from not so well paved road and at an incline, so on to the highway, taking a left wiith kids in the back seats making a racket, and me a bit distracted. I revved hard to climb and on to the highway and went on to shift up to the second and pressed the CLUTCH. Guess what it was the BRAKE pedal. I slammed on the brakes in the middle of the high way thinking it was the clutch. Couldnt recollect what happened for a second. By that time kids at the back are tossed to the front, everyone is shocked and it was the most terrifying experiences I have ever had.

Thankfully there was no vehicles at the back and no one was injured. But hell it gave me a shock like nothing else.

Here is my bit of advice for anyone who is switching to Manual to a clutchless system. If want to avoid a situation like I had, be concious all the time, that you should not be pressing the clutch, you have to keep telling your self that its an automatic. Re-Learn. Keep doing this for atleast 500 kms.
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Old 1st September 2020, 15:28   #48
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by frewper View Post
Here is my bit of advice for anyone who is switching to Manual to a clutchless system. If want to avoid a situation like I had, be concious all the time, that you should not be pressing the clutch, you have to keep telling your self that its an automatic. Re-Learn. Keep doing this for atleast 500 kms.
Little off topic, but an advice I got from a dealer driver while test driving an automatic back in 2012-13, when I told him that I was driving automatic for first time - Keep your left leg locked behind your right leg (cross the left foot behind ankle of right one), this way even in panic your right leg blocks your left leg to react and saves you from pressing brake pedal thinking its clutch. Its an excellent advice, no need to be conscious about left leg, never faced an issue following that, even when I moved to an automatic later. Slowly one would be accustomed and can keep the left foot on dead pedal without a problem. Applicable for iMT as well.

Last edited by dipdawiz : 1st September 2020 at 15:32.
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Old 1st September 2020, 15:32   #49
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by frewper View Post
Here is my bit of advice for anyone who is switching to Manual to a clutchless system. If want to avoid a situation like I had, be concious all the time, that you should not be pressing the clutch, you have to keep telling your self that its an automatic. Re-Learn. Keep doing this for atleast 500 kms.
This happened to me once. I had to keep switching between my manual and company automatic every other month back then and one day out of blue I slammed the brake on a mall ramp - like the left leg had woken up from its own bad dream. Then I followed my colleague's suggestion - drive with my left leg tucked under my right leg. It eliminated the risk from my 'clutch reflex'.
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Old 1st September 2020, 15:42   #50
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Amazingly detailed review!!

My main concerns were engine stalling and roll-back on slopes. Both sorted!

Biggest benefit for iMT is negligible premium that it asks for above MT, compared to what you give for an AT. And it has convenience almost like an AT. Most people do not have problem changing gears, but using clutch in peak traffic, more so if clutch is heavy and low end torque is low

I was under impression that this might not be convenient enough to use compared to an AT. But I think its very close since your left leg rests free. Thanks to this great review, it changed my mindset about iMT.

Very eager to drive one now!
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Old 1st September 2020, 16:25   #51
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

I wonder how the IMT will work in the hills, with quick overtakes needed and constant gradient changes ? The AMT is the worst gearbox in the hills as per my personal experience, and as far as automatics are concerned, the dual clutch automatics work best.
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Old 1st September 2020, 16:36   #52
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Will this iMT behave in a similar way when it comes to push-starts? I don't think we can slot it into 2nd gear and lift the foot off the clutch after a good push... as the pedal itself is missing. So I guess it falls into the more automatic than manual category, at-least in this respect.

I remember some 2 wheeler had this (dont know if its Hero or Bajaj) where one could simply change gears without a clutch lever on the left. Are the 2 technologies the same? I wonder how well that fared in the hands of the consumer?!

And as in all such technologies, you get something by losing out on something else. For example, in AMTs (at least in my experience with my Alto K10 AMT) , you were sacrificing clutch life by engaging it for a longer time, in order to have a (somewhat) smoother ride.

Here, will it be the Synchro-mesh (or the clutch life again like the AMT) to deliver the smoothness?
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Old 1st September 2020, 17:20   #53
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Excellent review covering most of the doubts anyone might have about this new transmission option.

I love Hyundai for the fact that they always try to offer something new to the Indian market unlike some other manufacturers including the leader Suzuki who offer either outdated model/technology or Indianize their global products (read quality degradation). Even though iMT is not really a new technology globally and it's been there abroad for some time now if I'm not wrong.

My question is how reliable will it be in the long run. Specially, if say the clutch fails for some reason, will it make you stranded on road unlike MT where you can still drive with a slipping clutch. Reliability aside this is the best option for those who want the convenience of clutchless driving yet want manual shift. Ideal for newbie drivers and cabbies who has to drive all day long. Diesel iMT will be boon for our market and cost effective compared to a fully auto. I have never driven AMT but being a MT lover and after reading many reviews, I'd rather have this than AMT. A MT purist will like this on our roads because the real advantages of MT with clutch are not always attainable on Indian roads. Overall I expect many sub 10lakh hatch and sedans will sport this in near future.
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Old 1st September 2020, 17:41   #54
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Interesting technology. But doesn't this kind of an arrangement cause higher wear and tear of the clutch? For instance, if you are cruising in stop go traffic in 2nd gear, but the speed is more apt for 1st gear, the car would keep its clutch engaged to prevent an engine stall. In regular AT boxes, the car would shift to 1st gear itself. In a MT car, it would simply stall.

Also another related query is while coming to a stop, if the drive doesn't change gear to neutral, would the clutch stay engaged?
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Old 1st September 2020, 18:13   #55
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
It is only when you get aggressive with the car that a proper manual and clutch pedal are missed. The actuator disengages in a more relaxed, calmer manner than a manually-operated clutch. This also means that the 0 - 100 acceleration isn't as fast as an MT. If you are a hard-driving enthusiast who likes to zoom on the open road, a pure 3-pedal MT or fast AT are the recommended choices.

A driver can downshift at any time. The IMT matches the engine revvs on downshifting.

A healthy amount of engine braking is available and this gives the driver a feel of good control.
Nice review Aditya. iMT looks very interesting and promising for buyers who can't stretch for DCT but want the convenience.

I had one question: How is the iMT when you downshift aggressively? Say you're doing 60 or even 80 kmph in 4th and decide to downshift to 2nd to pull off an overtake on a single lane highway?

How is it like during aggressive downshifts from 4th to second or 5th to 4rd at very high rpm's?

I mean I know it rev matches but does it rev match even at close to 4,000 - 5,000rpm.
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Old 1st September 2020, 18:25   #56
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Nice Review, iMt is definitely a good alternative to AMT.
How does the iMt behave when we downshift abruptly from higher to lower at higher speed, because in the case of MT we have control over how fast we can release the clutch and avoid hard engine braking.
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Old 1st September 2020, 18:36   #57
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

My driving instincts make me want to press the clutch if I'm supposed to manually use the gear-stick for ANY purpose.

Here, the operative pattern of driving the "iMT" is designed to make the driver ignore pressing ANY foot pedal while using the gear-stick. This being counter intuitive is NOT a small issue as driving becomes as second nature to any person. This instinct is important in serious driving / emergency situations.

That is, if anyones previous car or next car, OR another car at home turns out to have a manual transmission (or even automatic transmission), then the change in operative pattern of driving requires one to change ones instinctive reaction to driving.

IMO Adapting to this change in operative pattern will take TOO MUCH effort and carefulness as it deviates ALOT from what one would instinctively do. I'd definitely go the distance to say that this tech could be a real hazard.

iMT is NOT a new technology. And there's a serious reason car makers didn't choose this tech - it compromises safety for a very small cost saving. This change in pattern is NOT required for driving an AMT, thus this not being an issue is a BIG plus IMO.

Latest iterations of AMT are NOT jerky and they make more sense as NO change in driving pattern is required.

P.S. : For this to be acceptable to me, Hyundai must either provide ONLY steering paddle shifters to shift gears, OR a fake clutch pedal.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 1st September 2020 at 18:59.
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Old 1st September 2020, 19:03   #58
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Absolutely. I when people comment on AMT without even having experienced one for a long duration of time.

True, the initial AMT from Maruti - i think it was the Celerio, had horrible head nods.

But the modern AMTs from TATA, Hyundai and Maruti itself have come a long way since the days of Celerio.

I have been driving Tigor AMT since past 3 years and have never noticed head nods except when i am driving really hard and am in Sports mode.

For me, the iMT is neither here nor there. I would anyday pick an AMT over iMT.

And as you said, if one wants to drive an AMT the way iMTs are driven, there is always the option of Manual mode on the AMT. So.
Can't comment on older AMT models, but recently picked up an Ignis AMT for wife and all it took is 2-3 rides to figure out the pattern of shifts. Now i should say it is a lot more predictable and so easy to live with even in peak traffics. If you understand AMT a bit and know what you are doing, i think these head nods or jerkiness don't even come in your way at all !

Hate to say this, but my Tiago JTP in City mode is more Jerky than the AMT ! (Thanks to the Tata Tune )
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Old 1st September 2020, 19:04   #59
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

If I had a manual transmission car, a conventional AT car and this iMT at home, my muscle memory would go completely haywire. While the review does bring out a few points, I still don't understand the necessity of this transmission variant.
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Old 1st September 2020, 19:05   #60
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
My driving instincts make me want to press the clutch if I'm supposed to manually use the gear-stick for ANY purpose.

Here, the operative pattern of driving the "iMT" is designed to make the driver ignore pressing ANY foot pedal while using the gear-stick. This being counter intuitive is NOT a small issue as driving becomes as second nature to any person. This instinct is important in serious driving / emergency situations.

That is, if anyones previous car or next car, OR another car at home turns out to have a manual transmission (or even automatic transmission), then the change in operative pattern of driving requires one to change ones instinctive reaction to driving.

IMO Adapting to this change in operative pattern will take TOO MUCH effort and carefulness as it deviates ALOT from what one would instinctively do. I'd definitely go the distance to say that this tech could be a real hazard.

iMT is NOT a new technology. And there's a serious reason car makers didn't choose this tech as it compromises the safety for a very small cost saving. This change in pattern is NOT required for driving an AMT, thus this not being an issue is a BIG plus IMO.

Latest iterations of AMT are NOT jerky and they make more sense as NO change in driving pattern is required, thus this not being an issue is a BIG plus IMO.

P.S. : For this to be acceptable to me, Hyundai must either provide ONLY steering paddle shifters to shift gears, OR a fake clutch pedal.
Agree with all the issues you mentioned, even fake pedal came to my mind, but the issue is when someone else is driving who is new to iMT, they might end up doing something like press accelerator and slowly release the clutch, they expect the car to move smoothly, but car will behave completely different, it will move faster than they expect, It can be fatal!
If Hyundai gives paddle shifter it will become AMT!
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