[abhishek46]

Hello people,
with no offence to all the experts - i was going through my vw polo's manual the other day, and it is written in it that there is no requirement of doing warm up of engine. It is written that warm up is a wastage of fuel and should be avoided.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Hello people,
with no offence to all the experts - i was going through my vw polo's manual the other day, and it is written in it that there is no requirement of doing warm up of engine. It is written that warm up is a wastage of fuel and should be avoided.

Don't really know for sure which way of the either is bad, but according to some experts, idling does forces car engines to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode which over time can degrade the engine's performance and reduce fuel efficiency.

[Source:https://ca.autos.yahoo.com/blogs/gre...01000465.html]

Though, I am not sure about the above and do let the engine idle for about a minute so as it is warm and lubricated enough to handle the extra load which I will be putting it to.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by saket77

Don't really know for sure which way of the either is bad, but according to some experts, idling does forces car engines to operate in a very inefficient and gasoline-rich mode which over time can degrade the engine's performance and reduce fuel efficiency.



[Source:https://ca.autos.yahoo.com/blogs/gre...01000465.html]



Though, I am not sure about the above and do let the engine idle for about a minute so as it is warm and lubricated enough to handle the extra load which I will be putting it to.

Why do you think you know more what is good for your car and engine then the manufacturer? These guys will always be conservative in their advise to start with!

Yes, idling especially in cold weather is not particularly good for the engine. Especially on modern diesels as they are so efficient they simply wont heat up during idle with low ambient temperatures.

You start your engine and the lubrication kicks in more or less simultaneously. Car engine lub oil pumps are positive display pumps, so they will draw a good vacuum and will immediately (more or less) start delivering volume and thus pressure. At worst its a few seconds to have oil everywhere it needs to be. If it would take any longer your engine would be severely damaged.

The biggest thing you need to worry about is wear on the piston rings and cylinders. And the lubrication is only effective when those parts have reached their normal operating temperature. They wont get there at idle.

So in essence, start your car and immediately drive away, dont rev the engine to much, dont load it up to much until it reaches its normal operating temperature. Rule of thumb, 3-5 minutes after your cooling water temperature reaches its normal operating range your oil temperature will be in the normal range too.

Jeroen

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Why do you think you know more what is good for your car and engine then the manufacturer? These guys will always be conservative in their advise to start with!
Jeroen

I do not think I am smarter by overlooking the instructions by my manufacturer. The problem comes in when opinions of manufacturers are not concurrent. Another argument to this may be that my car's engine needs to be warmed up before starting off while VW engines do not need a warm up. I think more than design, this comes from different school of thoughts. This is what my car's instruction manual says:

When warming up a cold engine, allow the engine to idle until the temperature gauge pointer comes up to the "C" position. In this position, the engine is sufficiently warm for starting off.

The above extract is from Maruti Suzuki Zen - Jelly bean.

Thanks.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Rule of thumb, 3-5 minutes after your cooling water temperature reaches its normal operating range your oil temperature will be in the normal range too.

Thanks, that's a useful bit of info to have.

[Rahul Rao]

Most cars today have enough torque to just let in the clutch and moove without touching the accelerator.
That is how I start, and come onto the road from parking lot idling in 1st. 1st to second shift sees 1800 Rpm, beyond which I do not exceed 1600 RPM till engine is properly warmed up. 4th at 1500 RPM is 50 kph which comes down to 1200 RPM in 5th.

Rahul

[humyum]

I think idling an engine is simply wasting fuel. Of course we should not start the car and directly enter 'Fast and the Furious' mode but till the temperature reaches its normal mark, we should drive conservatively and shift at lower rpms (1500 to 1600 rpm's). In less than 5 minutes, it will reach its working temperature and you are good to go however you want after that.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by saket77

The problem comes in when opinions of manufacturers are not concurrent. Another argument to this may be that my car's engine needs to be warmed up before starting off while VW engines do not need a warm up. I think more than design, this comes from different school of thoughts.

Different cars, different engine design, different construction, different specification, different materials, different tolerances, different output, different torque, different lub oil, different fuel efficiency etc etc.

Why would the manufactures of different engines, not differ? The different school of thought as you call it, tends to come from all of the differences above, and some more, with a lot of practical experience and testing thrown in and a few lawyers overlooking all the proceeding as well, so the statements are on the safe side of cautious.

Jeroen

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Hello people,
with no offence to all the experts - i was going through my vw polo's manual the other day, and it is written in it that there is no requirement of doing warm up of engine. It is written that warm up is a wastage of fuel and should be avoided.

Nothing offensive about it, but that does not mean, that you should start red lining the engine from the word go, and expect nothing to happen in the long run.

[shankar.balan]

I ve driven with a lot of people across the world.
I ve also driven a number of cars around the world.

One thing I ve noticed, is that us guys here, tend to treat the car much better overall. We shut down the vehicle step by step, AC off, music off, all lights etc off and then idle a bit and switch the car off.
When starting, we idle a bit, move forward, then switch on the particular things we want, such as AC, music, lights etc.

A lot of people I ve driven with outside of India and inside of India, just switch the car off after reaching their destinations and then when they switch the car on and start it, everything comes on at once, the AC, the music etc etc.

Saying this, despite all the huge advances in technology and advantages now on offer, it never hurts to love your vehicle and take care of it. Look after it well and it will look after you when you need it.

This is a simple dictum followed by my Dad and others and that I have imbibed unconsciously.

There is also one fact that we will do well to remember. When an engine is built, there are possibilities of tiny little metal shavings sitting inside the cylinders and engine. It is better to follow a clear "running in" discipline, at least for the first 1000 odd kms to allow the engine to "bed down" as it were and get settled.

Its the same principle of walk first, then run..

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

Nothing offensive about it, but that does not mean, that you should start red lining the engine from the word go, and expect nothing to happen in the long run.

Yep true, . The manual did not propose the red-lining part though! I think what it meant was that just start the engine and drive away (sanely. )

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

One thing I ve noticed, is that us guys here, tend to treat the car much better overall. We shut down the vehicle step by step, AC off, music off, all lights etc off and then idle a bit and switch the car off.

When starting, we idle a bit, move forward, then switch on the particular things we want, such as AC, music, lights etc.



It is better to follow a clear "running in" discipline, at least for the first 1000 odd kms to allow the engine to "bed down" as it were and get settled.

..

probably true which brings us to the next observation. There are hundreds of millions out there that don't do this, so do their cars break down more or not? I'd say they don't break down more often.

On the bedding in I would say follow the instruction manual as well.

But again, these days it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If you will be selling your car in 5-7 years, before it hits the 100K all of the above is mostly beneficial for the second owner. Which tend to be types like me, who never buy new cars but look for something with at least 100-150k and preferably a car from a nerdy owner such as us car nut types on this forum. Make sure you maintain your car well. The next owner will be grateful for it.
Jeroen

[aurelino]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Folks,

Running-in is more than just limiting the car to a high RPM/Speed and not pushing it beyond a specified limit.
============
My 2 Paise on Run-in or Break-in on a diesel engine.

Thanks for the informative post. I assume that "changing rpm every 5 minutes" also applies to stage one (upto 200 km)? This is the part which I am finding difficult to do because highways and bumper-to-bumper both are ruled out. So what other options are there? Perhaps a short trip to the market on a not-too-busy street. But it will be difficult to accumulate 200 kms, not to mention 1000 kms with such trips.

I have to drive to work everyday which is about 50 kms total but I can't take my new car to work as there are many patches where highway speeds are achieved. Makes me wonder how long it will take to get through the run-in process.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by aurelino

This is the part which I am finding difficult to do because highways and bumper-to-bumper both are ruled out. So what other options are there? Perhaps a short trip to the market on a not-too-busy street. But it will be difficult to accumulate 200 kms, not to mention 1000 kms with such trips.

I have to drive to work everyday which is about 50 kms total but I can't take my new car to work as there are many patches where highway speeds are achieved. Makes me wonder how long it will take to get through the run-in process.

Makes you wonder how any cars gets run-in when this would be mandatory. Do what all the others do, and I mean hundreds, if not more, of millions don't worry too much about it. Just enjoy your new car, keep the revs a little lower then you would do normally, don't accelerate to brusquely. Or you might go completely overboard and follow what the manual says and stick to that

Enjoy Jeroen

[aurelino]

Talked to a SA here and he says that oil change is not required after 1000km as today's engines are already run-in for a few kms. I am planning to do it nonetheless.