[hserus]

Sure seat belts work which is why I wear them. Only, if my car is in a head on collision with a drunk driver and my bonnet crumples like an eggshell, trapping my legs and driving the steering column into my ribcage, I suppose I can say, with perfect truth, that I faced up to that oncoming disaster and didn't move a muscle as all that metal hurtled at me. Good job.

[ajaypjayaraj]

Originally Posted by KEN-RAND

So if you are saying "Safety is not to be part of luxury" fair enough, but what is the point of passive safety like airbags if you do not use the what is already supplied such as seat belts because you are to lazzy to put the thing on.

Seat belts work, Princess Dianna was killed because she was not using the belt in the back of the car the body gaurd sat in the front was wearing his and he lived driver killed no belt but had a air bag but she would have lived if she had used the seat belt.
Wear your belt back and front will save your life even without a airbag.

There you go again. People not using seat belt is not an excuse to not provide an airbag or ABS or any such life saving safety aids. Ones lack of responsibility should not be a reason for slowing down improvements on the safety front on the other hand.

[adit mishra]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

The EURO NCAP also provides extra safety points for things like curtain air bags and ESP which will have pushed the score of European car to 5 stars and that is fine by me. What really takes the goat is the fact that the structure itself is deemed unstable when compared to the European model which proves that Maruti has made compromises while building the car here and this is just not done. Absolutely and utterly not! The VW Polo and the Ford Figo have not been compromised structurally, the reason that they are heavier and also 'feel' much safer.

You missed out the safest hatch-The fiat Punto. Maybe as members of Team Bhp we know the swift and its safety factor but the general public knows nothing about the safety of Indian cars. The Fiat Punto and the VW Polo belong to a different league. But the Ford Figo has the same kerb weight as the Swift. Safety is the last priority of car buyers.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by KEN-RAND

I have the XUV W8 AWD and it has side curtain and seat airbags (6 in all) and ESC as standard so you are incorrect thinking the indian version is minus these items.

Ken

NCAP tests are done on the basic model. In india W4 is the basic model which doesn't have 6 airbags, this what I meant.

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by adit mishra

You missed out the safest hatch-The fiat Punto. Maybe as members of Team Bhp we know the swift and its safety factor but the general public knows nothing about the safety of Indian cars. The Fiat Punto and the VW Polo belong to a different league. But the Ford Figo has the same kerb weight as the Swift. Safety is the last priority of car buyers.

I think he mentioned Figo and Polo because they were actually tested by GNCAP and their structures were proven as being stable. Even though, we can all be pretty sure that the Punto's structure is stable, we don't have any proof of it. Also, we can't really call Punto the safest hatch since airbags are available only in the top variant where as Polo gives it in all of them.

While it's true that the modern heavier cars generally tend to have safer structures than the tin cans, it all boils down to the cost cutting the manufacturer does.

The Etios/Liva are lighter than Dzire/Swift, but in Latin NCAP, the Swift's structure took a hit similar to the Indian Swift, but the Liva's structure remained stable.

In one of the threads, a post related to Etios' crash was made where the pic showed that the passenger cabin was completely stable even though the bonnet area had got damaged heavily. I don't know if the crash speed was less than 64 km/h or not but we can be pretty sure it wasn't too less either. Looking at that pic, it makes me have some amount of hope that the Indian Etios/Liva's structure will be stable in the GNCAP test as well.

What we can get from it is that Toyota has focused on cost cutting more on interiors than on the structure while it is opposite in case of Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai who cut costs in areas where it is not visible to the customers. If the Indian Liva has the same structure as the Brazilian one, then it's the only hatch in India other than Polo to have a non zero rating.

[KEN-RAND]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

NCAP tests are done on the basic model. In india W4 is the basic model which doesn't have 6 airbags, this what I meant.

Wrong, the W4 has only just come out in the last few months so the test had to have been done on the W6 and or the W8 both of which have 6 air bags.

[adit mishra]

Originally Posted by theredliner

I think he mentioned Figo and Polo because they were actually tested by GNCAP and their structures were proven as being stable. Even though, we can all be pretty sure that the Punto's structure is stable, we don't have any proof of it. Also, we can't really call Punto the safest hatch since airbags are available only in the top variant where as Polo gives it in all of them.

Yes that is quite intriguing, a car that has less kerb weight is safer than a car that has more kerb weight. I remember the case of a notable politician's death just a few months ago in an SX4. The car that hit the SX4 was an indica and the driver of that indica is still alive!!! The Ritz has a kerb weight of 1100 kgs that is quite high compared to the bigger etios sedan. I think the Punto got 5 stars in NCAP safety tests. The i20 got 4 stars. That was 2-3 years back.
But I have lifted the bonnet of the punto and the quality of steel used seems 10 times better than any other European/Japanese car.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[mayjay]

It's simplistic to say that a heavier car is safer. Remember that the higher the weight, the more energy is dissipated in a crash, at a given speed.
In frontal impacts, safety is more to do with what happens in case of the crash and how the energy can be absorbed by the car structure, directing it away from the passenger cell, and therefore keeping the passengers safe.

Having said that, there is no excuse for structural failures that seem to occurring in these crash tests. No engineer, least of all somebody heading an engineering organization should be allowed to stand behind such failures.

These few CEOs are misleading us by saying that we can opt for higher variants. Are they willing to certify that a higher variant has better structural safety? Of course not, that would be bad for sales. Even at higher prices, you may end up with poor safety. This is more about attitude and the value attached to individual lives in this country, than anything else. You don't need a law to respect life.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by adit mishra

Yes that is quite intriguing, a car that has less kerb weight is safer than a car that has more kerb weight. I remember the case of a notable politician's death just a few months ago in an SX4. The car that hit the SX4 was an indica and the driver of that indica is still alive!!!

How is that relevant to this thread. That collision was not head on. Moreover both cars did not suffer much damage. The victim in the back seat suffered a cardiac arrest and could have probably been alive today if he was wearing the seat belt. Even the SX4 guards and driver seated in the front seats were unharmed.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How is that relevant to this thread. That collision was not head on. Moreover both cars did not suffer much damage. The victim in the back seat suffered a cardiac arrest and could have probably been alive today if he was wearing the seat belt. Even the SX4 guards and driver seated in the front seats were unharmed.

It's not relevant to bring the unfortunate accident involving the late Gopinath Munde into this discussion. I don't have the full details, but according to reports his untimely death was due to cardiac arrest. He was reported to be conscious and asked to be taken to the hospital. Both his guard and driver on the front seats didn't get hurt, and one of them had to be seated on the same side of the car as the late minister. This would mean the collision was not severe as even the occupants of the other car were safe. Wearing the seat belt might have saved him, I don't know for sure though.

[adit mishra]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How is that relevant to this thread. That collision was not head on. Moreover both cars did not suffer much damage. The victim in the back seat suffered a cardiac arrest and could have probably been alive today if he was wearing the seat belt. Even the SX4 guards and driver seated in the front seats were unharmed.

Sorry I missed the major point. All I wanted to say was-
1. An expensive car may not be the safest. Perhaps the Scorpio, a vehicle with a kerb weight of 2520 kgs may have absorbed the impact forces and transmitted less shock waves to the person's body that might have saved him.
2. Mostly back seat passengers never wear seat belts. It is rare in India.
3. If the car that is currently being sold as the best car on Indian roads fails to pass a safety test, it is an indicator of the fact- HOW PRECIOUS IS THE LIFE OF A PERSON IN INDIA?

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by adit mishra

Yes that is quite intriguing, a car that has less kerb weight is safer than a car that has more kerb weight. I remember the case of a notable politician's death just a few months ago in an SX4. The car that hit the SX4 was an indica and the driver of that indica is still alive!!!

The incident in question was not a frontal impact. It was a side impact. The front end of a car is the strongest due to crumple zones, the engine and other reinforcements. Side doors are the weakest area in any vehicle. There is just an inch or two of the door panel between the occupant and the impact. An SUV or a heavier car crashing in to a small one head on would cause more damage in the smaller vehicle if all other things are equal. However the same small car crashing in to the side of a larger one can inflict tremendous damage as the doors do not have any crumple zones. All you can do is put some crash bars and side and curtain airbags to protect the passengers.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by KEN-RAND

Wrong, the W4 has only just come out in the last few months so the test had to have been done on the W6 and or the W8 both of which have 6 air bags.

Only W8 and W8 AWD comes with curtain(6) Airbags. W6 comes with dual airbags only, for passenger and driver.
http://www.mahindraxuv500.com/produc...re_pdf_new.pdf

[KEN-RAND]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Only W8 and W8 AWD comes with curtain(6) Airbags. W6 comes with dual airbags only, for passenger and driver.
http://www.mahindraxuv500.com/produc...re_pdf_new.pdf

I stand corrected thought W6 had the same number.
ken

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by mayjay

... ... ... This is more about attitude and the value attached to individual lives in this country, than anything else. You don't need a law to respect life.

Sadly, yes you do. Not just in India, but worldwide. Look further than the auto industry, at, just for instance, alcohol, tobacco, pharma, agri chemicals, and probably more et-ceteras than I am even aware of. There may be a case that life is cheaper in some countries, but it doesn't count for much in the face of corporate profits anywhere.

It does take laws, but, of course, it also takes education and awareness.