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Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi
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![]() | #452 | |
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Your average speed has very little to do with what your fastest and slowest speeds are. For example: 20 km road. You drive the first 15 kms at 100 kmph. The last 5 kms in heavy bumper to bumper traffic moving at 10 kmph. Will the average speed hence calculated be able to show the 15 kms at 100 kmph? | |
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![]() | #453 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi
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My argument is that in a country where still a majority is on 2 wheels, busses are not road worthy, roads themselves are not safe to drive on with stones pot holes and unmarked speed breakers in middle of nowhere. I will feel safe in a Swift. | |
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![]() | #454 |
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| ![]() Dear Readers, Please do clear one misconception.The European Swift is no longer qualifying for 5 star as of 2014 rating system. This is because the norms are upgraded every year. The European Swift is now somewhere between 3-4 starts probably. In fact the way Euro NCAP is going, I don't think by 2015, we will have a single 5 star rated car on INDIAN ROADS even from the so called marquee brands. BTW, hasn't VW come out smelling of roses after the GNCAP reports, even in this forum!!!I guess our fetish for Euro made stuff (me included) can overpower all logic. I know i am going to get a lot of brickbats for saying this. Suddenly Polo, Vento, Rapid are wonderfully engineered cars!!! They are good cars, no doubt but "wonderfully engineered"!!! Hmm, I will await the results of GNCAP's arm twisting till Indian regulations roll out. |
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![]() | #455 |
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| ![]() Yes. You are absolutely right. Sufficient videos are available in youtube and other forums to prove this, where NCAP type collision tests between two equally star rated but different weight cars are shown. |
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![]() | #456 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chennai
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| ![]() Yes. You are absolutely right. Sufficient videos are available in youtube and other forums to prove this, where NCAP type collision tests between two equally star rated but different weight cars are shown. |
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![]() | #457 | |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ludhiana
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Last edited by DerAlte : 9th November 2014 at 09:57. Reason: As requested by OP | |
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![]() | #458 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: India
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| ![]() Friends, let's stop fighting. Our 'rulers' decided not to disappoint us so they are not going to impose any 'useful' crash tests for the cars sold in India. Govt has decided to test the cars only at 56 km/hr, not at the speed of 64 km/hr where most of the cars failed to pass the tests. SIAM is opposing even this lowered down 56 km/hr speed and want the cars should be tested at only 24 km/hr. ![]() http://auto.ndtv.com/news/new-cars-i...kmph-690066?fb ![]() |
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![]() | #459 | ||
BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne
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Your argument is flawed. The west must be paranoid idiots since their driving conditions are pretty much perfect and yet they drive safer cars. The 2 wheeler majority cannot afford a Swift while at the cost of a Swift there are better built safer cars out there. That logic fails too. Its like saying I feel safe in TB when all others have cancer. And how do you reach this conclusion unless the motorcycle being ridden ploughs straight into a wall? If it falls down vis a vis Datsun's crash with say another car at speed, I am pretty sure that people on the motorcycle will fare better since they have a 'run off' area so to speak. Last edited by suhaas307 : 9th November 2014 at 10:47. Reason: Please avoid posting consecutively. Use the EDIT / QUOTE+ functions within 30-minutes of posting instead. Thanks | ||
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![]() | #460 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi
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Leave that alone we even breath poorer polluted air have hardly any gardens or what not. You can't jog or cycle on roads without fear. Do I want more safety? Hell Yeah! However that's just singling out one thing. Let's begin with roads, pollution, noise pollution, road worthiness of busses trailers, lane driving, speed limits, proper marked speed breakers. The thing is driving in India is not safe period! Why single out cars probably our toothpaste too is not US grade and FDA would probably find it has toxins to make teeth white. So let's just accept the facts and not go gung ho over NCAP as this is the reality of the world we live in. Imagine those traveling in Sumo or Nano. Imagine bike riders with family. I would be considering myself lucky if I drive a Swift and just hope a XUV with an illegal bulguard doesn't bump into me. Last edited by aseem : 9th November 2014 at 10:40. | |
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![]() | #461 | ||
BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne
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Mod Note: Please be civil in your interactions with other members and avoid personal attacks. Last edited by noopster : 9th November 2014 at 11:46. | ||
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![]() | #462 | ||
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But that is the point. It is ridiculous that we still have legal cars with 35 year old designs like the Omni. I grew up in the era of Ambassadors (my dad had a Landmaster, since we could not afford an Ambassador), and found the Maruti 800 to be an ultra modern car. But that was over a quarter century ago. Technology moves ahead, and practices that were fine in the past are unacceptable today. Which is why the Datsun Go, and the Swift's results are shocking. They have deliberately engineered the car to be unsafe - it is not ignorance, it is a callous lack of concern for the lives of their customers. This is very similar to the example where GM (if I remember right) once chose not to recall an unsafe car because the probability weighted cost of compensation payments for the dead was less than that of a recall. Quote:
This is the attitude that needs to change. The life of an Indian is also precious. And comparing it with factory regulations is disingenuous. The number of people who die in automobile accidents each year is several times those that die in industrial accidents. Per Wikipedia, almost 250,000 Indians died in road accidents last year - that is 30x the official estimate (and 15x of the unofficial claims) of those who died due to the Bhopal gas disaster. I fully agree we need to enforce our traffic laws better to improve road safety - just this morning, I had an idiot taxi driver come the wrong way down MG Road in South Bombay as I was driving to Marine Drive for my jog. And as someone who cycles regularly in Bombay, I fully appreciate that there are several people who are worse off than car owners. But the incremental cost of producing materially safer cars is marginal, just about the cost of a halfway decent Android phone (and remember cars last 10-15 years vs 2 years for a phone). Also, please note that the Nano fared better in the GNCAP test than the Go, so there is no direct correlation between cost and safety. Calling for immediate ban on grossly unsafe cars like the Omni, Go et al - and a mandating of Airbags within 6 months. | ||
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![]() | #463 | |
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![]() | #464 |
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| ![]() I resisted posting in this thread for a long time (it has now reached 31 pages) and I have also stopped reading most of the posts since they seem to say the same thing in many different ways. What has changed now? I read an article by Shubhabrata Marmar in the Overdrive magazine, where he stuck his neck out to say the most of the internet forums are places which simply spread information which is not accurate and thereby perpetuate myths that are the equivalents of urban legends. I also read an interview with Mr. C. V. Raman of Maruti Suzuki who had very interesting take on the NCAP. He hit the nail on the head when he said that the NCAP rating is mostly a marketing tool and that too in Europe. He went on to say that scoring a zero is not the equivalent of unsafe. He draws a parallel between fuel efficiency ratings and the NCAP crash test ratings. If you want to rate cars on the basis of mileage then an agency may say that a car which consumes one litre of petrol for 16 kms is the base for the comparison and so that figure will be 0 stars and depending upon the calibration opted for by the agency stars will be allotted. It means that everything is on a relative scale whose base is chosen by the agency, which can sometimes be alright in one context but not alright in others. This point of C V Raman's is significant because it throws light on the way in which these agencies function. It is a bit like a two bit agency called Standard and Poor rating the economies of various different countries with A or B or C grades. That these agencies can have malafides is adequately demonstrated by the tyrannical Max Mosley writing a letter to Carlos Ghosn asking that the Datsun Go be taken off the roads in India. Its like S & P telling India to withdraw subsidies on some products like fertilisers. Coming back to Mr. Marmar's point about internet forums, I tend to agree with him. He was talking about how people who have never ridden a particular bike will generously part with opinions not just on that motorcycle but also on various different motorcycles available in the market. I know from experience on many forums, including this one, that opinions about the Tata Nano have been dished out by people whose only contact with the car was pictures on the internet. Nobody makes a sound when you hear that Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Audis have spontaneously combusted, because that is an exception whereas in the case of the Nano it is the rule. People mouth platitudes about safety based on some piece that they have read somewhere and when you see that a car made in India has been in accident people will wax eloquent about the lack of safety in Indian cars. I have seen and shown pictures of a BMW 3 series that was in an accident and broke into 3 pieces to my friends and nobody had anything to say other than that it may have been the driver's fault. Before accepting the ratings of self created agencies such as the NCAP one should look at the accident figures and their causes and their consequences in different countries by taking into account road infrastructure, driving practices, rules awareness, the willingness to follow rules etc. You can see that this is a Herculean task and nobody will do it and it is here that agencies like the NCAP make a space for themselves and survive. Only today I saw piece on best Indian cities to live on Yahoo and this was done by some agency that applied scientific principles in giving ratings. In that Kolkata is top while Bangalore is bottom. Nobody gave the specifications used by the scientific principles. And incidentally science is not infallible. As Karl Popper said "something is true in science only till it is falsified and falsifiability is one of the primary attributes of science; otherwise it is no different from dogma, religion and the likes that do not tolerate discussions on the validity of things". |
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![]() | #465 | ||
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Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test | volkman10 | Road Safety | 348 | 15th May 2017 12:52 |