[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by LokiPilaniya

Yes, It was over speeding which caused the accident and death!

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

What really matters is whether the speed was appropriate in a given condition and the driver's ability at that point of time to anticipate and avoid mishaps. These factors cannot be hardcoded.

I was and I am making a simple point. Don't blame overspeeding until proven.
These guys were blamed for overspeeding from the word go by everyone.
And we have people who are in this forum who are still hell bent to 'prove' they were overspeeding.

Going by this logic, every car which was moving and had an accident can be labeled as overspeeding. Imagine the last scratching accident you had in the parking of your apartment is labeled as overspeeding (because the driver couldn't handle the car at the speed it was moving )

Responsible journalism is gone. I also rest my case.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I was and I am making a simple point. Don't blame overspeeding until proven.
These guys were blamed for overspeeding from the word go by everyone.


Responsible journalism is gone. I also rest my case.

What turned that solidly built Car into a mess of steel ?
If the Car wasn't travelling fast, the road divider may have been.
It is unacceptable to speak anything bad about the deceased, but such mistakes which are for the benefit of others can be respectfully discussed.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

What turned that solidly built Car into a mess of steel ?
If the Car wasn't travelling fast, the road divider may have been.
It is unacceptable to speak anything bad about the deceased, but such mistakes which are for the benefit of others can be respectfully discussed.

Mess of steel? 80% of the car was intact. See NCAP videos at 60 km/hr, they will be far worse for the car! The condition of the car was what pushed me to counter the claims of 133 km/hr made in the whole world! I was so right on target that at the time of impact it was at 90km/hr.

There are so many reasons the car may have got into an accident apart from overspeeding.

Lack of judgement? Tyre burst? Intentional Sabotage? Suicidal? Obstruction of driver view? Obstruction of car's way? Road rage? Driver getting distracted? Driver slept? Brake failure? Other vehicle component failure? Wrongly driven other vehicle on the road? Untrained driver? Driver got fits or other medical emergency?

But yes, if it was a Merc and people died inside, it MUST be overspeeding!

The driver is alive. Please be considerate what you write, she may read what you wrote!

[fhdowntheline]

Folks, I believe there is no point in speculation, we are doing no better than the mainstream media in terms of unnecessary back and forth on how and why the car crashed. 2 of the people (including the driver) are very much alive and would probably in a position to explain the circumstances to the authorities. With this in mind, everything we discuss here with respect to how the car performed becomes moot.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Folks, I believe there is no point in speculation, we are doing no better than the mainstream media in terms of unnecessary back and forth on how and why the car crashed. 2 of the people (including the driver) are very much alive and would probably in a position to explain the circumstances to the authorities. With this in mind, everything we discuss here with respect to how the car performed becomes moot.

Absolutely, if not anything else, this incident will teach us how to respond to such news. We can make irresponsible claims or wait.

I would be very happy if the chip that Merc has, which stores data that can be retrieved after an accident, is made mandatory by our honorable government! Mr. Gadkari, are you listening?

[dust-n-bones]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Cyrus Mistry's car was going at 100 kmph, brakes hit 5 secs before crash, finds Mercedes probe https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...areurltracking

Finally, some facts in a haze of guesswork from the media. 100 kmph doesn't look like 'overspeeding' to be honest. Speed limits (and how they are designed and enforced) aside, this seems pretty much like keeping up with most private vehicles and buses on this highway.

Over taking from the left - again, reality of driving on these highways. Honestly don't know what the law says in Maharashtra. To me, weaving in and out of lanes (ie, rash driving) should be an offence no matter which lane you overtake from. Overtaking should be fine from whichever lane as long as you stick to it. We don't know this detail, so will let it rest.

The accident does seem to be caused by the driver being blind sighted by the abrupt lane closure (so yes, driver and highway design at fault in this case), compounded by not wearing seat belts (all passengers at fault).
A grim reminder that drivers on Indian highways have to take over-sized responsibility for safety, given the lack of concern for safety in highway design and execution. Drive safe.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

3 parties, 3 mistakes:

1. The driver was going at ~2x the speed limit. To be able to travel at avg. speed of 133kmph, you have to drive at 150+ regularly.
2. The rear seat passengers, Mr. Mistry and his friend not wearing seat belts in the rear seat. The front passengers were lucky to survive if the brit road safety video is true.
3. Unsafe road design that eventually contributed to the accident at that particular spot. The over-speeding could have led to an accident anywhere, but it happened there.

All 3 mistakes contributed to what has happened. The outcome could have been different had any of these 3 mistakes been avoided.

The legal penalty for these 3 mistakes is not death. But still 2 people have died.

The fact that there were mistakes #1 & #2 will make sure that the mainstream media will steer clear of mistake #3.

I was supposed to meet-up with a friend in mid August, very close to the accident spot. It didn't happen since plans changed but I wouldn't want such a thing to happen to anyone I know. Can we as Team BHP help highlight this to Mr. Gadkari so that this particular spot becomes safer for all of us?

Correction:

As per the latest reports and inputs from Mercedes Benz, the mistake #1 did not exist. The car was being driven at a safe speed along with the flow of the traffic. The 133/190kmph claims turned out to be big fat lies (as expected).

The accident actually happened due to Mistake #3 and people died due to Mistake #2.

That makes the road designer liable to prosecution as per IPC section 307. Will that happen? Can we as a community do something about it?

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Correction:


The accident actually happened due to Mistake #3 and people died due to Mistake #2.

That makes the road designer liable to prosecution as per IPC section 307. Will that happen? Can we as a community do something about it?

How about Hundreds and Thousands of vehicle that pass through the same spot safely ?

[theabstractmind]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Correction:

As per the latest reports and inputs from Mercedes Benz, the mistake #1 did not exist. The car was being driven at a safe speed along with the flow of the traffic. The 133/190kmph claims turned out to be big fat lies (as expected).

The accident actually happened due to Mistake #3 and people died due to Mistake #2.

That makes the road designer liable to prosecution as per IPC section 307. Will that happen? Can we as a community do something about it?

I will tell something. As a driver, one is always expected to maintain a reasonable speed such that we don't lose sight of the road for at least a hundred meters, if not a couple of hundreds. Especially when there's seemingly a curve ahead blinding the line of sight after the curve, or when elevation of the road causes such blindness, or when you see a bridge ahead, irrespective of whether there's a diversion, a driver's instict must be to slow down and lift the foot off the accelerator. That allows one to bring the car under control much easily.

In then given case, the gut feeling is the driver was distracted or not warned adequately when overtaking to be able to notice the obstacle ahead, which in my opinion should have been possible to spot by a generally safe driver. Seems like the car was tailgating truck too closely to be able to spot the obstacle ahead.

And regarding being driven at safe speeds, you will be surprised at the distance required to bring a car travelling at 100 kmph to halt.

[novice]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

How about Hundreds and Thousands of vehicle that pass through the same spot safely ?

Going by this logic, every accident in India is caused human error and there is no such thing as badly designed road in India because thousands of drivers would have passed through them with out losing their lives. Are you suggesting that we should call out a bad design only if every vehicle that passes through meets with an accident. I am sorry, it's a moot point you and few others are trying to make.

[rpads1]

On Indian roads however high the speed limits are marked there will always be sudden diversions without clear marking, unmarked objects, unmarked road works, sudden human/animal crossings, vehicles coming in opp. directions, ...

When driving the speed limit should be based on how fast your vehicle can brake safely, rather than how fast it can go.

[Anikesh11]

I'm a firm believer that more active safety features need to baked into cars
While people may argue a lot that over speeding has not caused this accident, speeding is unnecessary and dangerous
The technology to limit the speed is inexpensive, readily available and its time we enforce it for new cars
I'm not sure what purpose a car that can accelerate to 150kmph has on public roads
Why are we leaving the responsibility of keeping car under a predetermined limit with car drivers?
It's like vaccine for a disease is available but we insist only a bandaid(fines in this case)

[Tanmay007]

Originally Posted by LokiPilaniya

Having a certain speed limit does not mean one has to drive at that speed, also speed limit changes according to area/section on NH.
So if you have looked at the screenshot of the road map in my post you can easily understand that this section is a slow speed zone!

If a particular section of road is to be deemed a slow speed zone then appropriate speed limit signs will be put up on that stretch. At the very least a slow down or accident prone sign boards are put up. There were no such signs put up (that I know of, please correct me if wrong), so blaming user for over-speeding isn't fair at all.

Originally Posted by theabstractmind

The term over-speeding doesn't mean exceeding legal limits always.

Over-speeding clearly means going above speed limit for that particular zone. Even if you are going 40 in a 20 zone, you are over-speeding. Speed limits are decided by engineers after careful consideration of the road and it's surroundings. If a zone is 100km/h then that road should be safe to travel at 100km/h on that stretch barring any external factors.

Bad design is what led to this accident, plain and simple. Even if the car was doing 60, it would've led to a crash (possibly non-fatal). Liability for this crash should primarily lie with the authorities responsible for designing this stretch. By focusing solely on over-speeding, those who should actually be held accountable are being ignored.

100s of accidents similar to this happen every day but a high-profile case like this is needed to not just spread awareness about personal safety but also to hold the Govt accountable for bad design, poor management of stray cattle, bad roads, etc. I hope the media finally focuses on the latter and brings about a change that will save lives.

An immediate survey of all major highways where lanes merge should be done and appropriate signs and rails should be put up.

[Amrik Singh]

When you know there are stray cattle on the road, while driving, do you expect them to move away, or you drive carefully ?
Indian roads are full of surprises though newer construction is minimising it. So instead of blaming the roads as badly designed (which is a known fact) we all have learnt to drive carefully. Rare case of negligence end in fatality

[LokiPilaniya]

Originally Posted by Tanmay007

If a particular section of road is to be deemed a slow speed zone then appropriate speed limit signs will be put up on that stretch. At the very least a slow down or accident prone sign boards are put up. There were no such signs put up (that I know of, please correct me if wrong), so blaming user for over-speeding isn't fair at all.

I assume you missed the part where I mentioned about rumble strips.
Sharing the definition from Wikipedia, "Rumble strips are a road safety feature to alert inattentive drivers of potential danger, by causing a tactile vibration and audible rumbling transmitted through the wheels into the vehicle interior."

If someone is doing 100 or above it's very easy to miss board signs with such speed we get into tunnel vision. But it is impossible to ignore something which gives you physical warnings, ie Rumble strips and this section has multiple of those. Which I've clearly marked on the screenshot of map I posted earlier.

I'm just trying to put things in perspective about what was the actual cause of this fatal accident in the first place.

Simplified version of this is
Unbelted passengers - Over speeding - Ignoring rumble strips - Blind overtake - then you can place things like bridge/a cow/a slow moving vehicle like tractor etc.

With so many discussions I think now we should leave it to the authorities and wait what they say in their final report.