[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by krrisdrive

I think in India, 'young adult' term is not legally recognized.

Sure. I'm not speaking from a legal point of view. I'm speaking from the human, ethical point of view.

[krrisdrive]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Sure. I'm not speaking from a legal point of view. I'm speaking from the human, ethical point of view.

In that case, yes, he can make out what is wrong or right.

However, I have seen parents teaching or rather coaching their young kids to be responsible from young age. In this thread itself, users have explained on how they had been taught responsible driving.

So, the onus again falls on the parents or parenting method.

[Mystic]

My 2 cents:

1. Anybody in India if you walk on the streets, we can see many children riding bikes or scooters without driving license. There are rules to punish the parents and nothing happens until it leads to a fatal accident.

2. We can learn something from Japan regarding the cultural respect for rules and order leading to safe roads.

3. There is only that much Government can do in framing laws and rules if there is a general tendency to disrespect them. Fault lies in both people and Government. People in any law abiding country can hire brilliant lawyers to fight their case and escape and this is allowed by Government even if it knows it is wrong in certain cases. The attitude of people in thinking that that they can disrespect rules and get away unpunished easily should change from the core culturally.

4. This incident is highlighted that it came to our attention .There are thousands of cases which happened and will happen and nothing even comes to public attention. Such incidents keep on happening.

[amitoj]

This thread is nearly 30 pages long and I think it has covered all aspects that could be covered that led to this double murder and a lot of very thoughtful proposals have been put forward that would prevent this from happening in the future. Except one. It is time that we as a society accept alcohol to be the villain that it is. We know that alcohol consumption suppresses the signals from the brain's prefrontal cortex, the part that is responsible for inhibiting risky behavior.

We as a society need to acknowledge that and refuse consumption of alcohol to be an acceptable norm.

[krishnakumar]

Originally Posted by amitoj

We as a society need to acknowledge that and refuse consumption of alcohol to be an acceptable norm.

Respectfully, please let’s not digress here and go down this path. It’s a slippery slope.

One can always have individual preferences and still be responsible members in the society.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by krishnakumar

Respectfully, please let’s not digress here and go down this path. It’s a slippery slope.

One can always have individual preferences and still be responsible members in the society.

Talking about the ill effects of alcohol is not as slippery a slope as consuming that first drink thinking you are in control.

[TorqueAddict007]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Talking about the ill effects of alcohol is not as slippery a slope as consuming that first drink thinking you are in control.

As a complete teetotaller myself, and having never had, nor having any plans to ever consume alcohol, I still don't believe that a blanket ban on alcohol will solve this issue. Alcohol only amplifies or highlights what is already existing in a person. Drinking and driving is wrong and a crime and there's no argument regarding that. Going by his nature, I don't think he would have done anything different if he was sober, did alcohol worsen it? Definitely. But what is to say that he wouldn't have either done the same thing sober, or would have used another stimulant.

What alcohol does to a person, at what amounts, is well documented, and what to do about it is an entirely different conversation, which we doesn't have any meaningful correlation to this thread. What we as a society do need to accept is that driving is not just a thrill, it is a responsibility. Enforce driving rules and responsibilities, increase monitoring around pubs, bring about legislation that attaches liability to pubs who serve to clients that drink and drive.

We as a society seem to respond only to fear unfortunately, so make the consequences of such a crime so harsh, anybody will think ten times before committing it. That is what sort of change we must focus on achieving. An irresponsible, entitled person who feels like they can get away with anything, will do heinous things, regardless of whether they are under the influence of something or not.

[ToThePoint]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Talking about the ill effects of alcohol is not as slippery a slope as consuming that first drink thinking you are in control.

How about following good old principle of not handing out keys to bikes/cars to those under age?

Let's think how we can have control/responsibility of that first.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by AZT

It would be interesting to know from lawyers whether being drunk and hitting someone is less severe than being sober. When you are sober you have control of your senses and are wilfully driving fast while when drunk your senses and reflexes are both dull and slow.

I would imagine the boy admitted guilt only after consulting with his lawyers and not basis emotions.

In the BMW case (1999, Admiral Nanda's grandson and the son of an arms dealer ran over 7 people killing 6), Jethmalani argues that he drove with hope that his drunk driving would not kill anyone and it was not his intention.

He got off.

Originally Posted by amitoj

This thread is nearly 30 pages long and I think it has covered all aspects that could be covered that led to this double murder and a lot of very thoughtful proposals have been put forward that would prevent this from happening in the future. Except one. It is time that we as a society accept alcohol to be the villain that it is. We know that alcohol consumption suppresses the signals from the brain's prefrontal cortex, the part that is responsible for inhibiting risky behavior.

We as a society need to acknowledge that and refuse consumption of alcohol to be an acceptable norm.

Sober men beat their wives and partners, sober women foist false rape cases on men and ruin their lives.

We should ban people of all genders because of what they did when sober? The number of accidents caused by sober people far exceed those caused by drunk and drive cases (MoRTH data) so we now ban all vehicles?

The vast majority of those who drink don't cause fatal accidents or accidents even. I personally have been drinking since the age of 24 (am 43) and not once have I even sat behind the wheel after more than a 30 ml (as permitted by law).

Puritanical prohibition has NEVER worked in human history.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by TorqueAddict007

I still don't believe that a blanket ban on alcohol will solve this issue. Alcohol only amplifies or highlights what is already existing in a person.

Agree with most of your post except the part quoted above because blanket ban will not solve this issue. It can only be solved by a more aware society. Alcohol does not amplify anything. It breaks down your barriers, it makes you lower your guard, it makes it easy to abandon rational thought.

Originally Posted by ToThePoint

How about following good old principle of not handing out keys to bikes/cars to those under age?

Let's think how we can have control/responsibility of that first.

Absolutely. We should be capable of holding more than one thought in our heads though.

Originally Posted by Stribog

Sober men beat their wives and partners, sober women foist false rape cases on men and ruin their lives.

This study lays out the link between
Alcohol, Aggression and Violence

Since you brought up domestic violence: Experience of Domestic Violence and Psychological Morbidity in Spouses of Alcohol-Dependent Males

We have highlighted lackluster laws, blamed poor parenting, highlighted corruption as some of the ills plaguing the society that are at the bottom of this incident. Well, so is alcohol, directly.

[GreyNomad]

But ofcourse a liquid spirit is to blame since our human spirit is ohh so noble.

Domestic violence is a layered problem and heavily influenced by power dynamics interplaying with gender, social and economic dynamics in a relationship. Ascribing DV to just alcoholism is an oversimplification and disservice to survivors.

Alcohol is what is colloquially termed a ‘downer’. When it ‘breaks down barriers’ as you put it, do consider the intent of the drunk. For someone to wilfully want to break the barrier to do things under the garb of ‘being drunk’ is as much a conscious decision as any other.

Originally Posted by amitoj

Agree with most of your post except the part quoted above because blanket ban will not solve this issue. It can only be solved by a more aware society. Alcohol does not amplify anything. It breaks down your barriers, it makes you lower your guard, it makes it easy to abandon rational thought.



Absolutely. We should be capable of holding more than one thought in our heads though.



This study lays out the link between
Alcohol, Aggression and Violence

Since you brought up domestic violence: Experience of Domestic Violence and Psychological Morbidity in Spouses of Alcohol-Dependent Males

We have highlighted lackluster laws, blamed poor parenting, highlighted corruption as some of the ills plaguing the society that are at the bottom of this incident. Well, so is alcohol, directly.

[Axe77]

Mod note: Let’s stick to the topic at hand please and not make this discussion about consumption of alcohol per se, instead of DUI. Thank you.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

[FiatDiesel]

One heart wrenching update this thread provides is that victims body was not provided freezer and was in decomposed state at the time of last rites which I believe was several days later.
While we all discuss and talk about what, why, how etc, we should reinforce and reemphasise the basic humanity within ourselves and to friends & families to help, support and be kind to people in need including strangers. No family (read parent) would expect to see there loved one in such state for last time.

[deadguy25]

Originally Posted by FiatDiesel

One heart wrenching update this thread provides is that victims body was not provided freezer and was in decomposed state at the time of last rites which I believe was several days later. ..

That is the lowest level one can stoop to!
The entire network of people should be tried by a daring lawyer and an honest judge without remorse.

[ashokabs]

People are still barking up the wrong tree looking at drunk driving, was he an adult etc. If he hadn't been allowed to drive the car being underage and not having a valid license this incident would not have happened.