[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Pts
1 Mirrors folded
4 Bald wheels
6 Smoking
10 Following too close

Bald Tyres - That's a poorly maintained vehicle which could potentially cause accidents more than being a bad driver. Again, over the course of the years, the tyres have worn out a LOT, sometimes extremely bald, but the record stays intact, and I intend to keep it that way.

Ahem! I clearly remember the one time Bald tyre + Front fork bearing combo doing some amazing circus near Richmond Road.

Anyways, I know you are a good driver. You watch out for the road and anticipate well. The drive to Pondicherry did reveal that part when you would slow down for every median gap. So, your dad taught you well.

Mirrors are instinctive and I dont recall you driving with them closed. We all use them when we need them.

All said, for me a bad driver is one who doesnt care/anticipate moves of the people around them and that includes cutting lanes/blocking lanes/high beams etc. And you would agree to that one as well(the autorickshaw episode on Outer Ring Road at HSR jn on 31st Oct 2010).

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Considering that the question is for spotting Bad Drivers, whilst I totally agree with ALL the points, there are some which dont fit the bill -

Pts
1 Mirrors folded
4 Bald wheels
6 Smoking
10 Following too close

1. LOL. Probably the reason you have not had any accidents so far, driving with mirrors folded is because of other good drivers on the road who are using their mirrors and are specifically on the look out for guys with folded mirrors.

2. Bald Wheels means a poorly maintained vehicle. Someone who does not care about his own vehicle, what respect will he have for other vehicles?

3. Smoking while driving: This is more like driving with one hand. Seems like a casual approach to me.

4. Tailgating is a sign of a bad driver. No excuses there. Specially when done with mirrors folded, on bald tyres and cigarette burning in one hand! If the car in front of you brakes suddenly, your folded mirrors will not tell you whether you can safely maneuver into the next lane, your bald tyres will lose grip and you wont have any control anyway, and the cigarette in your hand will probably land in your lap and cause some damage there as well!!

So, if you do all those things, specially tailgating, you my friend, are a bad driver.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by amitoj

1. LOL. Probably the reason you have not had any accidents so far, driving with mirrors folded is because of other good drivers on the road who are using their mirrors and are specifically on the look out for guys with folded mirrors.

2. Bald Wheels means a poorly maintained vehicle. Someone who does not care about his own vehicle, what respect will he have for other vehicles?

3. Smoking while driving: This is more like driving with one hand. Seems like a casual approach to me.

4. Tailgating is a sign of a bad driver. No excuses there. Specially when done with mirrors folded, on bald tyres and cigarette burning in one hand! If the car in front of you brakes suddenly, your folded mirrors will not tell you whether you can safely maneuver into the next lane, your bald tyres will lose grip and you wont have any control anyway, and the cigarette in your hand will probably land in your lap and cause some damage there as well!!

So, if you do all those things, specially tailgating, you my friend, are a bad driver.

I would dread such a recipe (listed in Sl. nos. 1 to 4) for disaster.Only God can be benevolent and act as one of the major saviour's above there, apart from the disciplined drivers around here on the earth!

[Eddy]

@DevilsOwn: I can only pray that you keep your no-accident record intact.

All the best

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Considering that the question is for spotting Bad Drivers, whilst I totally agree with ALL the points, there are some which dont fit the bill -

Pts
1 Mirrors folded
4 Bald wheels
6 Smoking
10 Following too close

While it is up to you to smoke or not and when to change your trees, I would prefer you (or anyone) to use mirrors and do not follow too close, notwithstanding the impeccable and clean driving record over the years!

I do not know why, but i get a bit nervous when the guy ahead of me folded his mirror and the guy behind me is following me too close!

[amitwlele]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Considering that the question is for spotting Bad Drivers, whilst I totally agree with ALL the points, there are some which dont fit the bill -

Pts
1 Mirrors folded
4 Bald wheels
6 Smoking
10 Following too close

I am shocked to read this. You seem to be oozing with over-confidence if i can say so.

Wishing you and the other riders/drivers near you on the road All the Best!!!

[Arkin evoisrevo]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Very Interesting Thread! Couldn't read all the pages but did go through the introductory posts and the last few pages.


Bald Tyres - That's a poorly maintained vehicle which could potentially cause accidents more than being a bad driver. Again, over the course of the years, the tyres have worn out a LOT, sometimes extremely bald, but the record stays intact, and I intend to keep it that way.

We are not talking about what has the chance of killing you more than something else here. If a man leaves his cars tyres bald, it shows how much he values his life. And you can't expect someone who doesn't care about his life to care about someone else's.


Following closely - braking late or sticking your front up the rear of a deserving (not everyone, just the deserving few) idiot is absolutely safe.
And mind letting us know who these deserving idiots are? And how you identify them?



ps - I dont use RVMs either. (A lot of my friends are on this Forum and they will be glad to endorse the above facts, us having known each other for a few years. Although that may take some time because I dont know their handles and they probably dont know mine yet! )
This proves you are not a good driver IMHO.


Just read something about non helmet wearing 2 wheelers being dangerous again, am not sure what it is with these generalisations but just to set the record straight on behalf of motorcyclists, I never wore a helmet until the law made it compulsory, and neither did 2 generations of my family, all of whom lived to tell tales of some extremely fast machinery without any untoward Incidents.
Well, again, as I said, you can't expect someone who has no regard/value for his life or safety and his family (read: those who ride w/o helmets) to care even a tiny bit about your's, nor general road safety.

That's probably what made us reasonably better drivers with a good road record.

FYI, from what we've read in your post, most of us BHPians will consider you as quite the opposite.

(My 2 cents withing the quoted text, in bold)

[DevilsOwn]

I go out for a ride and its christmas in here!!!

No fret Ladies and Gs. I is back and happy (for various OT reasons):

Aqualeo: The Ikon (to Pondicherry, had the left and right folded in with me using the one in the center, whatever its called, if you recall!, in the Mondeo I keep them open as the extra few inches help keep others at bay).

The crash you mentioned was on a Bike, and I've forgotten how many (all my fault..). This thread however is about "Bad Drivers", and you know I have never had one in the car. Hence mentioning the car bit. I'll be happy to spill the bike follies and gain an even bigger fan following (such as the one you are about to see below) in the motorcycles section.

Am glad the post has stirred so much controversy, here are your respective replies:

Amitoj: LOL here too, and a big thank you to the other good drivers who have left me and my cars accident free, hope the same "luck" rubs off to everyone whether they use mirrors or not. Bald wheels - Yes, that means I dont respect my many year old cars scratch free, shining, usually 3kmpl MORE than manufacturer claimed vehicles. Smoking while driving, extremely casual approach! Heck that's how I manage to NOT have an accident living in 3 different cities! Tailgating sign of a bad driver? I couldnt agree more, read my post clearly, I never said anything about tailgating, I spoke about following closely. Marginal difference.

Anjan: Yes, very benevolent god, and after 30 years if and when we're still around, I'll be thanking the same god for having NOT had me in a car accident, just the way 3 generations before me never did. It has nothing to do with the driver. All supernatural.

Eddy: Thank you! I never pray for it myself, in fact in my prayers I usually wish my last breath is on 2 wheels, which could be why the 4 wheels have the protected force field!!

Anil: Totally agree with you, it is uncomfortable, and for the past year, I have started (upon the insistence of the family) to drive with my mirrors open, whether I use it or not is secondary.

Amit: I apologise my friend, nothing I said was out of over confidence and am not sure how that has been construed, I was only stating facts to correct few generalisations, you are free to drop into my place for a conversation with self and the family to see if there is any truth to the matter. In fact, the first thing I was taught is to know that I am NOT good, and there is always room for improvement.

Arkin : I dont care about my life, true, I dont care about others lives, well, I dont see why I need to explain it to you, but I come from a family of freedom fighters, social workers and doctors and was brought up well, I urge you to refrain from such baseless accusations. I dont need to give myself a character certificate, my actions over the course of my life have served the purpose. By the way, I didnt LEAVE my car tyres bald, they GOT bald, and were changed once exhausted. Identifying deserving idiots: I go by instinct. About proving am not a good driver IYHO: I never said I was, in fact, my post clearly states that, and I quote:

"Am not special, if am doing it, am sure there are others somewhere who are doing it with success too, hence wanted to point it out"

About the helmet and life bit, already addressed above. I will be glad if am considered exactly the opposite. I've always been and prefer it that way.

I was half expecting objective criticism but was pleasantly surprised to come across nothing of any technical value (which is why I joined here to begin with).

Let me just ask 2 questions not just to the ones who have been kind enough to express their "feelings" to my "facts":

1. Why is it so hard to digest the fact that a person CAN have instincts which do not necessitate the need of a RVM, or that a person CAN have control beyond the use of a bald tyre, or that a person CAN have the skill to drive one handed etc etc etc....because as I said, and I repeat (before someone calls be over confident or says I have no value for life -that's a good one-, that I am NOT special, I've seen others in my family do it, I've seen others in my circle do it, hence, it can be done. What is so hard to believe?

2. Is it because you HAVE had accidents? Is it because you do NOT have instincts and have found using technology and "recommended" driving do's to aid you? Am almost apologetic that I've needed neither. As a couple of the guys above said, diving intervention has helped (runs in the family, 30 years is a long time).

By the way, just to repeat myself in a different way in the hope that at least SOMEONE understands, even having a 0 accident record is no big deal, I know some really poor drivers who have maintained that even while frying their clutches every 10k because they dont even know to shift.

Jokes apart, on a serious note, listen guys, I am not sure how my post has been construed to mean the things which were said (some of which rather dents the image one had of Tbhp before joining) however, I would like to assure you that I am as serious about my riding/driving skills as yourselves, maybe more, maybe less, its hard to quantify passion, and I have NEVER endangered the safety of anyone on the road on 4 wheels. I dont need to produce witnesses, but as I stated above, my house doors are open for anyone wanting a chinwag over a pint discussing driving, driving safe, driving fast. Maybe THAT would clear the airs (not because I care what people here think of me, I couldnt care less for brickbats or adulations, gone past that stage in life, but because I would genuinely want to understand WHY it is so difficult to digest).

A question to the Mods: It says in my post: Foul language in any form not allowed etc, what foul language did I use? (or is adding *** also considered a form of foul language?) I am unaware, hence asking If yes, I think you ought to have the *** option because the other members might misunderstand in what context the starred foul language was used.

Just a thought - before anyone starts dissing again, there's something I follow, and that's called "How". So, if someone were to tell me something which sounds far fetched, ludicrous, "life threatening" etc etc, I usually ask the other person "How", giving them the window of opportunity to explain and perhaps LEARN something from it. For even if I am doing everything wrong, there must be SOME method to the madness, right?

[Gansbab]

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Very Interesting Thread! Couldn't read all the pages but did go through the introductory posts and the last few pages.

Apologies if these not entirely true generalisations have already been addressed:

Considering that the question is for spotting Bad Drivers, whilst I totally agree with ALL the points, there are some which dont fit the bill -

Pts
1 Mirrors folded
4 Bald wheels
6 Smoking
10 Following too close

I come from a family of smokers (dont condone it but neither of us care when we croak), and from a family of one handed drivers, I have been driving for about 12 years now (clocked many a zeros on the miles) and have never met with an accident. And am still considered the worst driver in the family (they set crazy standards..)

So, whilst smoking and driving is potentially dangerous, I dare say for a good/responsible driver, it doesnt matter (as a habit I drive one handed even while not smoking, again part of the family tradition, he he he!!)

Bald Tyres - That's a poorly maintained vehicle which could potentially cause accidents more than being a bad driver. Again, over the course of the years, the tyres have worn out a LOT, sometimes extremely bald, but the record stays intact, and I intend to keep it that way.

Am not special, if am doing it, am sure there are others somewhere who are doing it with success too, hence wanted to point it out. I drive a rather biggish car in a city famous for choking the bloc so to speak! And fast (Bangalore to Hyd last week in 5 hours, cruising, For eg.)

Following closely - braking late or sticking your front up the rear of a deserving (not everyone, just the deserving few) idiot is absolutely safe. If a person does not have the basic hand/eye/leg coordination or know how or skill, they shouldnt be driving at all (and this keeping in mind that the guy at the back can ram into you, or the guy in front can brake thereby you ramming him). If you drive in Bangalore, you will know that this is sometimes necessary because no one here understands lights, or horns.

ps - I dont use RVMs either. (A lot of my friends are on this Forum and they will be glad to endorse the above facts, us having known each other for a few years. Although that may take some time because I dont know their handles and they probably dont know mine yet! )

......

Unfortunately, you are an example of not knowing what the correct driving methods are.

Not being involved in an accident does not mean that you possess the qualities of a good driver. Its more that the other road users are already aware of that fact and have taken precautionary action.

However, I would not blame you completely for that. The blame also lies in the way we are taught to drive (Mostly by our previous generation) and the nasty habits are passed on. I can argue for hours with my dad about why bikes (earlier scooters) needed to have the front brake perfrom efficiently.

Gandhar.

[DevilsOwn]

Gandhar, at the cost of having to repeat myself, please read my post above.

Just because a person steers one handed or does not use his RVMs does not mean he doesnt "know" what the correct driving methods are, its just that he makes a choice. And I've made mine because it works for me, similarly if using RVMs, driving 2 handed and following other "prescribed" dos works for someone, so be it! Whatever helps to stay SAFE out on the road!!!

As for being a good driver, for the LAST time (really feel like a parrot now...). This post isnt about WHO is a good driver, and no where in any of my posts have I mentioned that I AM a GOOD driver (accidents are IRRELEVANT, read my post above regarding fried clutches for eg.).

Apologies for some of the howlarious typos in my posts, type fast and no spell check so divine became "diving" among others!

As for habits being passed on, nasty or not, I am happy with the ones that have been passed because they have made me what I am/helped me survive. My previous generations were just that good. I will be thankful if I can reach half of that. (by the way, members of the family have been automobile enthusiats who have been founding members of clubs which are running their 30th year plus, part of the media, raced etc etc etc..). The lineage is long and is not connected to this post, just wanted to let you know am not applying half baked knowledge learned from another generation on todays roads, as was implied on your post..

I dont think members are taking the time to read my posts in their entirety, I suggest you do before coming up with some new hair brained deduction. As I stated earlier, I care little for brickbats or adulation because am past that stage, just wanted to correct a FALSE GENERALISATION. and I stand by what I said, am not special, am doing it, there are others that are, read my initial post for details.

Peace... (and by the way, the way I was taught, including driving/skills, was the ability to stand on ones 2 legs and chase their dreams, not expect it to be dished out on a plate)

OT: I think I may have been a bit harsh on one of the members, (I think his name is Arkin(??), just saw your other post (was it you) on the minor getting assaulted. I stand by what you said, I know others have asked you to move on and not get involved, but you're not alone, there are others too. Its precisely the "move on" or "its not worth it" attitude that has ruined this country. Whilst I dont condone you asking your dad to get you a gun, I do say continue to stand up against people peeing on the frikkin walls of this once beautiful city, or what you believe is right. Your parents ought to be proud of you.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Gansbab

Unfortunately, you are an example of not knowing what the correct driving methods are.

@Gandhar: Unfortunately DevilsOwn is not an example of not knowing what the correct driving methods are. He is an example of someone who loves raising a controversy and baiting others like you and me to come out with strong statements that he can then proceed to frivolously trash.

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

Just because a person steers one handed or does not use his RVMs does not mean he doesnt "know" what the correct driving methods are, its just that he makes a choice.

@DevilsOwn: At the cost of being sarcastic and probably risking Moderator action, may I say to you, "Do carry on and tell us about the times you ate a full meal of rice and curry with your fingers, from a paper plate balanced on your thigh while you drove at 80 km/h with the left hand, shifted gears and everything else besides. Or tell us also about the time when Rowan Atkinson fell ill and you were asked to fill in for him, and you decided to perform this scene below all by yourself - and it was unfortunate that Rowan's face was morphed in at a later stage by the editors and no credit was given to you..."

YouTube - Mr. Bean Video - Mr. Bean driving on roof of a car

[DevilsOwn]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

@Gandhar: Unfortunately DevilsOwn is not an example of not knowing what the correct driving methods are. He is an example of someone who loves raising a controversy and baiting others like you and me to come out with strong statements that he can then proceed to frivolously trash.

@DevilsOwn: At the cost of being sarcastic and probably risking Moderator action, may I say to you, "Do carry on and tell us about the times you ate a full meal of rice and curry with your fingers, from a paper plate balanced on your thigh while you drove at 80 km/h with the left hand, shifted gears and everything else besides. Or tell us also about the time when Rowan Atkinson fell ill and you were asked to fill in for him, and you decided to perform this scene below all by yourself - and it was unfortunate that Rowan's face was morphed in at a later stage by the editors and no credit was given to you

SS: If correcting a generalisation is raising a controversy OR baiting others, so be it, and what is frivolous trashing for you, can be defending my statements and a new member receiving MULTIPLE BAITS for me. I leave the powers that be to decide

You make an old horse (flogged dead horse?) like me sound like an average Net troll and that is an honour I scarcely deserve.

As for what you said to me, I hope there is no risk of Moderator action because this is still a free country and you have a right to your opinion as I have mine. I am the first one to engage in a healthy debate, it's frivolous trash that gets MY goat.

ps - as for the sarcasm, good one!!! I totally understand where it's coming from. Misunderstood as my post has been, ^^^ sure was funny.

I still stand by my post that there are some "GENERALISATIONS", keyword here, I repeat, is, g e n e r a l i s a t i o n s. Perhaps NOW we can move on from ME or MY skills (lack of?).

If we're done poking fun/baiting/accusing me of baiting/ perhaps we can get down to discussing the merits/demerits or whys/hows of the generalisations and get to here each others CONSTRUCTIVE point of view.

Look, I came in here to learn something about cars because I know nothing about them (all I know is how to drive never paid attention when I was taught about stuff under the hood because I was paying more attention on the driving). But if this is how a new member is treated/misunderstood/false accused, or if you have enough "know it all" members" without needing another one, let me know, I will be happy to revoke my membership and discontinue visiting.

Tech knowledge at the cost of self respect is a price I will not pay especially when my 2 simple questions are ignored and people pile on the frivolous trash without a "debate on what is stated".

I ask how different are you from any judge who announces a verdict without a fair trial.

Adios.

ps - if you see someone eating rice/curry with their fingers on the road or posing as Rowan Atkinson around Bangalore on a Bullet, RD, VMax, R1, Suzuki, Ninja, Mondeo, do wave out or honk, we'll catch up for a smoke/chai. (I think once twice thrice is enough to request people to read a post in its entirety and NOT misunderstand the tone to mean some kind of cheap self glorification, as if I need any or want any!!)

[anekho]

Devilsown, you seem to be driving home the point that because you've (and your whole family and their friends) not had any accidents so far, so your driving style is fine and that you'll never have an accident. Accidents are accidents for a reason, you never know when they'll happen!

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

1 Mirrors folded

Lolz. So what do you do when you have to change lanes? Or when taking turn? Heck, what do you do when you have to park along the curb? Mirrors are there for reason, contrary to your belief.

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

4 Bald wheels

I don't see any logic in this. Rains = wet road. Bald tyres = Aquaplaning.

To quote wikipedia:

The grooves of a rubber tire are designed to disperse water from beneath the tire, providing high friction even in wet conditions.

and,

Worn tires will hydroplane more easily for lack of tread depth.

Secondly your stopping distance will be greatly increased. Handling is affected. Essentially, it's poor vehicle maintenance and a risk to other people on the road (and yourself).

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

6 Smoking

Can't say much about this.

Originally Posted by DevilsOwn

10 Following too close

Following others closely means you're reducing you reaction time. Essentially you're giving yourself less time to hit the brakes and avoid a potential mishap or in other words, increasing the chances of a mishap.

[bblost]

Hey Devil,

I met a guy once near my office. The guy was actually eating while driving his Santro. Nearly side swiped me out of the road. He did not even realise it then. He cut me off from the left on a median divided 2 lane. I was in the said lane because I had just crossed a police checkpost with the barricades put up.

What I did when I caught up with him is a different story altogether. But we definitely did not have chai together. Though it must have involved him getting his car cleaned later. Rice split would attract rodents.

[IronH4WK]

guys, enough of flaming/trolling/baiting or whatever that's been going. everyone has a right to their opinion and lets not impose ourselves on others and let us certainly not make personal attacks.


@Devilsown: if you can, please try to make it to the next meet. would certainly love to meet you in person