[1100D]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

I am not sure about the current road conditions but in 2012 we started from Padum at 6:30 a.m. and reached Kargil at 4 p.m. Lost 1 hour due to the roof rack on my Bolero coming loose and a further 30 mins due to a tire puncture on the Pajero. So I calculated that if I could do it in 8 hours of driving in the bone jarring Bolero, a person with a better vehicle can do it in 7 hours .

Did you check with Debarshi (for the benefit of the folks who aren't aware, he is the guy with the Pajero in @Blackpearls post, also a member of this forum) for his version on this?

It was so nice of him to call me, right after my first post on HVK related to this trip. If my memory does not fail me, he did mention about Padum-Kargil being quite a long stretch, something close to 12-14 hrs. Although the version might change now, as has been the experience over the last few instances!!

Anyways, I have seen other posts on this forum mentioning average of 11-12 hrs. Besides the entire intent is beautifully captured below. Most lesser mortals dont go to Ladakh for a TSD records of the different routes.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

so you did it in 10:30 -1:30 = 9 hours.
When we first attempted this route we were on target for 10 hours.
With slow careful driving making sure nothing breaks.
We took 11 hours when you count relaxed driving.
The segment timings in these drives are made with taking into account photography breaks etc., Therefore if you do not stop much for photography or relaxing, then you can do it in probably 9-10 hours, however then the point of doing this route is lost.

Also for the uninitiated the Bolero with its 3.2 liter engine and all-round hardy nature is actually in its elements on the dirt trails. The roof rack that came off, was an add-on fitment and its coming off could be ignored (but why it did so, is anyone's guess)!!

Originally Posted by tsk1979

@1100, Hanle does have home stay acco. Nothing special. Nyoma has some decent acco though. And its barely two hours.
I would suggest not doing Kyun Tso while going as it would go dark.

On the way back, do Kyun Tso on the way to Tso moriri.
you can come down to Nidar via Thit Zarbo la, or if you are into shortcuts, you can take this road. I am told its good now
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=3...2.8259/78.6278

So you suggest taking a clockwise route from

Nyoma-Loma-Hanle on the way to Hanle
and
Hanle-KyunTso-Thit Zarbo La-Nidar-Nyoma on the way back (probably if I get to stay back at Hanle)

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No permit issue also

Good that you brought this up. Will have my own set of questions, once the route is finalised, as of now, with your help, its seemingly getting clearer now.

[TheIndian]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

You can also try the direct route from Spangmik to Hanle via Tsaga la. Get the permits ready, and there is a chance you will be let through.
If you are not, go back via Erath route, its a quick route to Tangste from Chushul

What is this Erath route? In the map that you posted on 1st page, I guess, is it the route parallel (where you haven't marked kms/time) to Lukung-Spangmik-Maan-Merak-Chushul?

I wanted to do Pangong-Chushul-Kakasang La - Hora La - Nyoma - Loma Hanle and back Hanle-Kyun Tso-Nidar-Nyoma-Tso Moriri. But as you suggested, it would be difficult in 2WD XUV (I'll be there in last week of June) :( Isn't it possible/ advisable in 2WD XUV at all?

Another Que - If not permitted, do they stop you at Chushul or Merak? I mean I want to do Pangong - Merak - Chushul (and then on to Hanle) route on the banks of Pangong. If not allowed to go thro', do they stop you to return from Merak or Chushul? In case, they stop you at Merak or Chushul, what's the best way to then quickly get to Tso Moriri (without a night halt in between !!)? Or I've to spend night somewhere in between?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by TheIndian

What is this Erath route? In the map that you posted on 1st page, I guess, is it the route parallel (where you haven't marked kms/time) to Lukung-Spangmik-Maan-Merak-Chushul?

I wanted to do Pangong-Chushul-Kakasang La - Hora La - Nyoma - Loma Hanle and back Hanle-Kyun Tso-Nidar-Nyoma-Tso Moriri. But as you suggested, it would be difficult in 2WD XUV (I'll be there in last week of June) :( Isn't it possible/ advisable in 2WD XUV at all?

Another Que - If not permitted, do they stop you at Chushul or Merak? I mean I want to do Pangong - Merak - Chushul (and then on to Hanle) route on the banks of Pangong. If not allowed to go thro', do they stop you to return from Merak or Chushul? In case, they stop you at Merak or Chushul, what's the best way to then quickly get to Tso Moriri (without a night halt in between !!)? Or I've to spend night somewhere in between?

Erath route is marked on openstreetmap, but I haven't done it personally.
It goes directly from chushul to Tangste. You do not have to go back via Spangmik if stopped at Chushul.
If your permit says Chushul, you won't be stopped at Merak Checkpost.
You can drive quickly (80kms in about 2 hours or less)

So lets say you are at Spangmik and you start your journey at 8am
Spangmik 8:00
Chushul 10:15
If you are allowed to go towards Kakasang La
Mahe : 1345
Hanle : 16:00

If you are asked to Turn back, you head towards Tangste
Chushul 10:15
Tangste : 12:15
Karu : 1600
Chumathang : 18:30
Hanle : 21:30 ~ 10pm
Chumathang is a nice break point with some GH and home-stays available.


Pangong Chushul Kakasang La - Doable in 2WD if there are no landslides and you do not have to take off road route
Kyun Tso is a bit dicey in a 2WD. Route conditions keep changing. I would recommend only 4WD

[TheIndian]

Thanks Tanveer. Understood now.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If your permit says Chushul, you won't be stopped at Merak Checkpost.

This brings another question (sorry to keep bothering you)....

What if they do not give permit for Chushul at all from Leh DC office itself? I would still like to enjoy the drive on the banks of Pangong from Lukung-Spangmik-Maan-Merak. Is this possible (if I've permit for Merak)? In this case, do I have to take the route back from Merak thro' Spangmik-Lukung to Tangtse onwards or is there any alternate route also? I guess, then I'll drop Hanle altogether (if no Kakasang La or Kyun Tso, then I might as well skip Hanle, what say?)

Does having some Army contacts help in obtaining Chushul permit at Leh DC office? and thereafter at Chushul Check post?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by TheIndian

Thanks Tanveer. Understood now.



This brings another question (sorry to keep bothering you)....

What if they do not give permit for Chushul at all from Leh DC office itself? I would still like to enjoy the drive on the banks of Pangong from Lukung-Spangmik-Maan-Merak. Is this possible (if I've permit for Merak)? In this case, do I have to take the route back from Merak thro' Spangmik-Lukung to Tangtse onwards or is there any alternate route also? I guess, then I'll drop Hanle altogether (if no Kakasang La or Kyun Tso, then I might as well skip Hanle, what say?)

Does having some Army contacts help in obtaining Chushul permit at Leh DC office? and thereafter at Chushul Check post?

If they allow you to proceed beyond Merak, simple go ahead, and at chushul turn towards Tangste.

Another thing.
If you head towards Kakasang La and your permit says "Mahe", the army guy may allow you to pass through.

That said, if your permit does not say Chushul, you will be turned back from Merak checkpost.

If you are a fighter, then you can fight it out at Leh DC office. According to MHA notification, no Indian citizen can be denied Inner line permits to any part of India.

You can file an RTI on MHA. Somebody I know has already done that.
If enough people file RTIs, we may get our right.

[TheIndian]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If you are a fighter, then you can fight it out at Leh DC office. According to MHA notification, no Indian citizen can be denied Inner line permits to any part of India.

You can file an RTI on MHA. Somebody I know has already done that.
If enough people file RTIs, we may get our right.

Trying to "Google" MHA notification. Will take a print if I can find it.
Got this link but could not find anything on Inner Line Permits.

http://mha.nic.in/more3
http://mha.nic.in/notification

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

so you did it in 10:30 -1:30 = 9 hours.
When we first attempted this route we were on target for 10 hours.
With slow careful driving making sure nothing breaks.
We took 11 hours when you count relaxed driving.
The segment timings in these drives are made with taking into account photography breaks etc., Therefore if you do not stop much for photography or relaxing, then you can do it in probably 9-10 hours, however then the point of doing this route is lost.

6:30 am to 4 p.m. minus 1 and half hours is still 8 hours and not 9.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Did you check with Debarshi (for the benefit of the folks who aren't aware, he is the guy with the Pajero in @Blackpearls post, also a member of this forum) for his version on this?

It was so nice of him to call me, right after my first post on HVK related to this trip. If my memory does not fail me, he did mention about Padum-Kargil being quite a long stretch, something close to 12-14 hrs. Although the version might change now, as has been the experience over the last few instances!!

Anyways, I have seen other posts on this forum mentioning average of 11-12 hrs. Besides the entire intent is beautifully captured below. Most lesser mortals dont go to Ladakh for a TSD records of the different routes.

Before this thread goes off-topic let me clarify one thing. Tanveer, I consider you as the guru as far as Ladakh is concerned and would not dare to argue without facts. What I feel is that both you and 1100D have forgotten the context of my reply. I had never mentioned that one should do this route in 7 or 8 hours. If you read my post carefully I had mentioned that it would take a minimum of 7 to 8 hours. Why should I consider the amount of photography stops required for calculating the minimum time? Moreover in our case it was the return leg and we did not stop as much for photography as we had done while going to Padum.
1100D, you can check with Debarshi and I am sure you will, but I maintain that if required I will do the stretch in 8 hours in my Bolero. Whether you call it TSD style driving or Special Stage, it is up to you

Originally Posted by 1100D

Also for the uninitiated the Bolero with its 3.2 liter engine and all-round hardy nature is actually in its elements on the dirt trails. The roof rack that came off, was an add-on fitment and its coming off could be ignored (but why it did so, is anyone's guess)!!

My humble Bolero has only 2.5 litres at its disposal
Nobody has to guess anything, the roof rack came off due to the load as well as road condition.

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

Might run into each other. I am planning to leave from Noida on June 7.

And us as well, we are starting on 5th from Kolkata.

[Anupam]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

And us as well, we are starting on 5th from Kolkata.

Just in case you wish to track each other's movement and want us to track as well as far as gsm is with you then check out

http://www.greenalp.com/RealtimeTracker/index.php

Some of my friends have used it recently and can vouch for its utility

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

6:30 am to 4 p.m. minus 1 and half hours is still 8 hours and not 9.



Before this thread goes off-topic let me clarify one thing. Tanveer, I consider you as the guru as far as Ladakh is concerned and would not dare to argue without facts. What I feel is that both you and 1100D have forgotten the context of my reply. I had never mentioned that one should do this route in 7 or 8 hours. If you read my post carefully I had mentioned that it would take a minimum of 7 to 8 hours. Why should I consider the amount of photography stops required for calculating the minimum time? Moreover in our case it was the return leg and we did not stop as much for photography as we had done while going to Padum. .

Oh, my miscalculation.
Indeed then non stop without any breaks this is doable in 8 hours, or 9 if you take lunch. But I guess most would do it in 11 including lunch break.

[ToyotaFan]

I am a newbie here at the forum and wanted to ask what would be the best iternity for ladakh and zanskar. I have a Toyota Fortuner 4*4 2013 model bought with this trip in mind. Will be starting from Meerut(near delhi) around 20th July for around 15 days. I have been to leh in 2011 in my toyota innova but unpleasant experiences at zojila and rohtang make me want to come back in a better vehicle next time. I would like to cover zansker, Tso morari and even chishul or hanle if possible. I would be grateful if ladakh experts can help me plan my route. We will be 4 people in the car 2 middle aged and my kids(both adults). Thank you in advance.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

I am a newbie here at the forum and wanted to ask what would be the best iternity for ladakh and zanskar. I have a Toyota Fortuner 4*4 2013 model bought with this trip in mind. Will be starting from Meerut(near delhi) around 20th July for around 15 days. I have been to leh in 2011 in my toyota innova but unpleasant experiences at zojila and rohtang make me want to come back in a better vehicle next time. I would like to cover zansker, Tso morari and even chishul or hanle if possible. I would be grateful if ladakh experts can help me plan my route. We will be 4 people in the car 2 middle aged and my kids(both adults). Thank you in advance.

Your vehicle will take you anywhere. None of the places in this guide are inaccessible in your vehicle.
So look at the map, see the driving times, and plan.
You won't be able to cover everything in 15 days. Do not fret. The trick is not to cover everything, but cover whatever you do "well"

[1100D]

So here is the refined plan. Cut short 2 days, which could be a welcome buffer. Besides, I might have to get a 90k service accomodated within somewhere (Maybe Manali or Delhi, on the way back)



Now the question comes to Permits.

How many would I need? What would I need to mention on them. Or is it just one permit with everything in it.

I have gone through the opening posts, but not sure, given the kind of routes I intend to take, which ones to take and which ones are not that important.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 1100D

So here is the refined plan. Cut short 2 days, which could be a welcome buffer. Besides, I might have to get a 90k service accomodated within somewhere (Maybe Manali or Delhi, on the way back)

Attachment 1233581

Now the question comes to Permits.

How many would I need? What would I need to mention on them. Or is it just one permit with everything in it.

I have gone through the opening posts, but not sure, given the kind of routes I intend to take, which ones to take and which ones are not that important.

One permit 20-30 copies. There is a shop which will make you 30 copies for 60rs near the DC office itself.
Mention the following places
Nubra,Turtuk,Pangong, Marsimik La,Merak,Chushul,Tsaga La, Mahe, Nyoma,Hanle,Tso Moriri,Hanle,Yaye Tso

Another slight change
Kargil - Padum
Padum - Rangdum Parakchik/Panikhar - Spend time around Rangdum-Panikhar stretch, its lovely
Panikhar - Leh (10 hours), but then you have a rest day on the next day.
On this day land up at DC office at 10am, you should be out by 11. Then you can visit some local monasteries.

Turtuk - Spangmik - Via leh is pushing it too much. Try Agham Shyok route - It may be open. This means its 8 hours to Spangmik from Turtuk, maybe 10 hours max.

Otherwise come pack to Leh and relax and chill

Infact, first night reach Lukung and stay the night there. Next day go to Marsimik La and then head to spangmik. Or maybe even stay at Merak in a homestay if you are okay with home-stays

No need so spend time around Manali. After Leh, it will feel pretty pedestrian. So reach Kullu from Sarchu, or Manali.
Then do a Manali - Delhi Run
And then you head back

If you have a snorkel then Agham Shyok should be totally doable. If not, then it depends upon the river.

Last but not the least, when you go to the permit office, they will 99% deny you chushul. Take your wife along, and walk in the ADCs office and request making a very decent and docile face. Usually bikers and single men are shooed away, but families are given permits because they believe you won't be doing hanky panky.

[TheIndian]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

One permit 20-30 copies. There is a shop which will make you 30 copies for 60rs near the DC office itself.

Are 20-30 copies of only "approved Permit" needed or 20-30 copies of our ID proof's are also required?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by TheIndian

Are 20-30 copies of only "approved Permit" needed or 20-30 copies of our ID proof's are also required?

Only the permit form. For ID just keep 2-3 copies of
Driving license
+
PAN card

Usually this is more than enough. I normally give copy of my DL as proof.