[krish69]

Originally Posted by geeash

Finally Test driven a couple of cars. Have TD ed Verna 4s, Honda City, Sunny...

Hi, the new Honda City CVT is great to drive but expect a sub 9KMPL FE.
Not sure how the Verna will stack up. Despite the poor resale the Skoda rapid DSG with diesel gets my vote. Its a nice reasonably sturdy build, black edition looks excellent, has the gizmos you want and AS is improving (having owned a laura for 7+ yrs I can confirm that). There are some May offers on it so please TD the car if it appeals to you and your needs! May also be chaper than the H City.
Cheers

[djay99]

Originally Posted by geeash

Still debating and thinking about Honda city because of the price? Is it really worth the extra 1.75 Lakh premium for a depreciating asset?

Last week i took a TD of Vento TSI in Hyderabad. It was a new car with around 150KM on Odo. It seems to be a good proposition for some one looking to buy a AT car. I drove a Honda city diesel for a good 200KM some time back and i was not impressed with its driving dynamics. There was fair amount of vertical movement and i felt build quality was light. I felt my Getz was sturdy. I felt City is good for city driving and not for our highways.

I would pick a Vento TSI over Honda city any day. Though Honda is reliable, overall build quality is lower than german cars.
TSI in sports mode is a different machine altogether. Exhaust note from engine post 4K RPM is simply mesmerizing and gear shift was smooth and jerk free. But i felt suspension to be little bit on softer side when compared to a polo. Overall a good car for 12L price tag.

[geeash]

Originally Posted by djay99

I would pick a Vento TSI over Honda city any day. Though Honda is reliable, overall build quality is lower than german cars.

I think you are lucky. I could not even pick a vento TSI over for a test drive. I definitely cannot buy a car just by reading its praises in forums. VW itself is not doing much about it. So I pick the car which I have TD ed

[djay99]

Originally Posted by geeash

I think you are lucky. I could not even pick a vento TSI over for a test drive. I definitely cannot buy a car just by reading its praises in forums. VW itself is not doing much about it. So I pick the car which I have TD ed

I understand but i believe you can take a TD of Polo TSI and Honda City. If you like ride quality & handling of Polo over a honda city then you cannot go wrong with Vento TSI.
I would have expected at least one VW dealer to have a Vento tsi TD car in Chennai.

I enquired about buying Vento tsi from CSD (Army canteen) and i was told that this facility is only available in Chennai. Ex-showroom cost for highline is 9.22L

[wilful]

Originally Posted by geeash

I think you are lucky. I could not even pick a vento TSI over for a test drive. I definitely cannot buy a car just by reading its praises in forums. VW itself is not doing much about it. So I pick the car which I have TD ed

Just a note of caution - not by way of running down any car maker. There is a very new thread by a Bhpian regarding issues with his AT box in his Vento after having driven it for over 40000 kms. Suggest you read it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ing-issue.html

[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by krish69

Hi, the new Honda City CVT is great to drive but expect a sub 9KMPL FE.

is this real? The ARAI rating is showing the same as manual (in fact a point or 2 better).

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

is this real? The ARAI rating is showing the same as manual (in fact a point or 2 better).

In theory a CVT is far more efficient than a Manual and out on the highway it should give better figures too but within the city it is a different case no algorithms can beat the human mind's capability to tackle the myriad of non-pattern related variations that city conditions throw up. So yes in the city there is nothing like a Manual car

[geeash]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

In theory a CVT is far more efficient than a Manual and out on the highway it should give better figures too but within the city it is a different case no algorithms can beat the human mind's capability to tackle the myriad of non-pattern related variations that city conditions throw up. So yes in the city there is nothing like a Manual car

I agree CVT is fuel efficient as the mechanism keeps the engine under optimal RPM even if you floor the accelerator it takes its own time to respond. But CVT is never fun to drive because of the same rubber banding effect. Driving with a CVT is not fun as there are no "gear changes." Instead, the engine just revs smoothly up and down. Mash down the throttle and the car's engine will jump to a higher RPM and then just stay there while the car goes faster and faster as the two pulleys in the transmission change their sizes. The gears does not change but pulleys.

I know Dual clutch transmission or DSG as VW call it is any day better as there are 2 clutches with alternating gears and it keeps the next gear ready for a seamless shift.

But on a general note is CVT better or a ordinary torque converter better? What about standing on a incline in CVT? Does the car roll behind?

I tried standing in incline in Verna on a incline but the car didn't roll behind and the reason being the car was engaged in a forward gear and so car couldn't roll back. I couldn't do that in city.

But what happens in CVT when there are no gears? Does the car roll back on a incline? Or does city have a hill hold function just like few other cars? Can someone throw a light

I am seeing from Internet that a lot of CVT transmissions giving problem when driving uphill or on a incline. Is this a norm?
Attachment 1370480

Attachment 1370481

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by geeash

But on a general note is CVT better or a ordinary torque converter better? What about standing on a incline in CVT? Does the car roll behind?

I tried standing in incline in Verna on a incline but the car didn't roll behind and the reason being the car was engaged in a forward gear and so car couldn't roll back. I couldn't do that in city.

But what happens in CVT when there are no gears? Does the car roll back on a incline? Or does city have a hill hold function just like few other cars? Can someone throw a light

A Torque Converter based AT will offer better performance as opposed to a CVT. But in general in slow city traffic CVT would feel better. CVT's typically will give a better mileage.

The Hill-Hold is a specific feature available in the VW TSI DSG's and also in the Ford Ecosport. No other car in this segment come with Hill Assist.

Having said that, the AT"s with Torque Converters typically do not roll back due to the additional torque generated when starting off. So we can say they have a kind of work-around Hill Assist in place.

CVT does not have this and hence I assume will roll back on steep inclines.

The Honda City, although a CVT, does have a Torque Converter also to give that low end push and hence I assume will not roll back like a typical CVT.

[geeash]

What about the reliability of CVT. since it runs on chains and pulleys with continuous variable gear ratios and absence of gears will it require more maintenance as chains and belts just like ac belts it will be subjected to more wear and tear as apposed to a torque converter with normal gears and a clutch. I don't want to end up with a gearbox or engine overhaul after a few years.

Just a few more questions, since I am new to automatic, just in case I want to overtake a vehicle ahead of me and there is a vehicle coming in opposite lane what I do in manual is I downshift and floor the accelerator to up the necessary torque to overtake. In automatic since the gear is chosen by the mechanism is it possible to do this without changing to sport or tiptronic mode. This would be detrimental in highway situations if the car is sluggish to downshift in automatic.

[D4D]

I think you might want to check this out.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...nsmission.html

CVTs are very reliable especially because they have much lesser moving parts. Don't worry about it, just do running in and periodic maintenance well, it'll do it's duty like any other MT.

If you're buying the city AT, I can safely say that it's easy to overtake on single lane highways(My neighbour was apprenhansive about overtakes when I suggested him to buy the car). You just have to use the sport mode(SV grade) and paddle shifters(VX grade). After driving the car for a few KMs, you'll understand it's power delivery and response. Then you'll be able to overtake without any trouble.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by geeash

Just a few more questions, since I am new to automatic, just in case I want to overtake a vehicle ahead of me and there is a vehicle coming in opposite lane what I do in manual is I downshift and floor the accelerator to up the necessary torque to overtake. In automatic since the gear is chosen by the mechanism is it possible to do this without changing to sport or tiptronic mode. This would be detrimental in highway situations if the car is sluggish to downshift in automatic.

Depends on the AT box. In general when you stamp down on the accelerator, the AT box will drop gears( or the virtual gears in case of CVT). How fast it does it will determine as to whether it is enough to carry you comfortably through the overtaking maneuver.

In my vento tsi, in 80% of cases, a stamp down in D mode is sufficient for it to drop enough gears. For a sharp overtaking I use S mode. I have never had to use the manual mode in the 16,000 odd km I have driven ( 90% of highway driving had been on 2 lane roads with good traffic). Now a days I do most of the highway driving in S mode as it is very enjoyable. In this cases overtaking is a breeze, just a tap and you are away and done. ( that is more due to the magic of the tsi engine)

In a car like the sunny CVT, the CVT is not very performance friendly. For such cases you will need to plan the overtaking more than you would do in a vento tsi or the Honda cvt.

If you are buying the vento or the city, I think you will be quite comfortable on the highway.

[harryputtar]

Originally Posted by geeash

Just a few more questions, since I am new to automatic, just in case I want to overtake a vehicle ahead of me and there is a vehicle coming in opposite lane what I do in manual is I downshift and floor the accelerator to up the necessary torque to overtake. In automatic since the gear is chosen by the mechanism is it possible to do this without changing to sport or tiptronic mode. This would be detrimental in highway situations if the car is sluggish to downshift in automatic.

Paddle-shifters are a god-send in the situation you are describing. I own a 2015 Jetta DSG and end up doing this a lot when I need a quick overtaking maneuver.

At least for the Jetta at high speeds in the 6th gear, overtaking is a breeze, however when in the 3/4 gear, this can really come in handy.

I do realize however, that paddle shifters are not available in any car in the range being discussed here, or am I wrong?

[krish69]

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

is this real? The ARAI rating is showing the same as manual (in fact a point or 2 better).

Real world FE for the New Honda city AT is more in the sub 8 levels (even my Amaze AT is sub 8 in heavy city useage). Can't comment on the MT as we don;t have any MT Honda cars cars but I suspect it will easily be 10-12+ for the H City and 12+ for the Hond Amaze MT petrol.

Hope this helps!

[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by krish69

Real world FE for the New Honda city AT is more in the sub 8 levels (even my Amaze AT is sub 8 in heavy city useage). Can't comment on the MT as we don;t have any MT Honda cars cars but I suspect it will easily be 10-12+ for the H City and 12+ for the Hond Amaze MT petrol.
Hope this helps!

The ARAI rating is 18km/l. I can accept 12-15km/l in real world conditions, but sub 8 is outrageous. Is Honda lying?