[carboy]

Originally Posted by mobike008

So is investing in MF a wrong move now and in near future?

We are never going to be able to predict when it's going to be the right move and when it's going to be the wrong move. This is why I don't put my money in regular mutual funds. Instead, whatever money I want to put in the stock market, I put it in direct equity & index funds - I have given my reasoning in a different thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3292949

MFs have been analyzed a lot in the US & the conclusion is that over a long period only a small percentage of them outperform the index. And you cannot predict which are the ones which are going to outperform the index. So buy an index fund with low expense ratio & low tracking errors.

[sgiitk]

@carboy; It is tough for a fund to out perform the index due to limitations on maximum investment inany one scrip etc. What is a fund - you are playing themarket with a wider portfolio managed by experts with an analysis team. You pay about 1% for the services. It is very difficult for an individual also the outperform the market. Else we will all by Jhunjhunwala's. Remember if Ibuy and you sell then you expect the scrip to go down and I to go up. Both cannot be right.

[S_U_N]

Originally Posted by quadra

FYI: They have HDFC top 200 fund listed as one of the four. I checked the same on moneycontrol and the speedometer rating was showing as "not to invest" in this fund. Then when you check the last 4 year perf of this fund on the same site, the graph clearly states that this fund has shown significant performance in the past.

Inputs anyone?

Past performance is just 'one' of the many factors, as they say.
Anyway, my experience with HDFC Top 200 has not been good. So, I have decided to just hold them till I get some more money. But I am never going to put in more money in that one.
The same is the case with DSP Top 100.
What I have realized, is we should not be selecting funds which invest in the same companies, else all of them go down at the same time.
My experience with ICICI Pru Focused BlueChip Eq Fund-Reg(G) has been good. Somehow ICICI has never 'screwed' up anything for me. (touchwood)

Originally Posted by mobike008

Post liquidation of this MF, I will be done and dusted with MF for good ( unless someone changes my mind that it has started giving back good returns again)

Look at these:
Franklin Asian Equity Fund(G)
FT India Feeder - Franklin U.S. Opportunities Fund(G)

Extrapolated annual returns for me are 28 and 48% respectively. I am not kidding. Even after paying 10% tax (without indexation), nothing else comes close to this in MF.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Look at these:
Franklin Asian Equity Fund(G)
FT India Feeder - Franklin U.S. Opportunities Fund(G)

Extrapolated annual returns for me are 28 and 48% respectively. I am not kidding. Even after paying 10% tax (without indexation), nothing else comes close to this in MF.

Thats wonderful returns. What is the history of these returns?

I mean, I know you mentioned its annual return but, whats the history of this fund over a period of last 48 months, YoY? Any info you have on that?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Anyway, my experience with HDFC Top 200 has not been good. So, I have decided to just hold them till I get some more money.
The same is the case with DSP Top 100.
My experience with ICICI Pru Focused BlueChip Eq Fund-Reg(G) has been good. Somehow ICICI has never 'screwed' up anything for me. (touchwood)

On the contrary I got the best returns from HDFC & DSPBR in the range of 18-22%. I will be for sure continuing with them.
Come Jan 2014, I will add ICICI Pru focussed in my portfolio and let go off Reliance RSF. Its a basically a call between ICICI and BSL Frontline Equity.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@carboy; It is tough for a fund to out perform the index due to limitations on maximum investment inany one scrip etc. What is a fund - you are playing themarket with a wider portfolio managed by experts with an analysis team. You pay about 1% for the services.

If you do not expect a MF to outperform the index, why not buy a good index fund which performs exactly like the index. And since an index fund can be entirely run by a program and it neither needs a fund manager nor a team of analysts, it will have much lesser expense ratio. And most actively managed mutual funds have an expense ratio of much more than 1%. For eg. HDFC Top 200 direct has an expense ratio of 1.7 and indirect an expense ratio of 2.25. OTOH, the Goldman Sachs Benchmark Nifty Index fund has an expense ratio of .5% + any brokerage you pay. Let's say you pay .5% brokerage each for buying and selling and hold it for 3 years, your effect expense ratio becomes 0.8%. With a non-ETF Index fund, there is only the expense ratio and no brokerage, so for something the UTI Nifty Index fund, the ratio is 1%.

Originally Posted by ghodlur

On the contrary I got the best returns from HDFC & DSPBR in the range of 18-22%.

When did you buy and when did you sell?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by carboy

When did you buy and when did you sell?

Started SIPing since Jan 2010 and the SIP are going to expire in Dec 2013 i.e this month. I guess the averaging factor worked when the markets were down in 2011 & 2012.

[S_U_N]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Thats wonderful returns. What is the history of these returns?

I mean, I know you mentioned its annual return but, whats the history of this fund over a period of last 48 months, YoY? Any info you have on that?

Data here:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/mutual-f...ty-fund/MTE182
http://www.moneycontrol.com/mutual-f...es-fund/MTE287

[carboy]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Started SIPing since Jan 2010 and the SIP are going to expire in Dec 2013 i.e this month. I guess the averaging factor worked when the markets were down in 2011 & 2012.

I think your calculations are wrong. If you SIPPed in either HDFC Top 200 or DSP Top 100 from Jan 10 to Dec 13, your returns would have been less than 10%. I think probably around 8% or so. Of course, it depends on the day of the month when your buying is done - however, I doubt if it varies so much as to get to 18-20%.

How exactly are you calculating the returns?

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by carboy

I think your calculations are wrong. If you SIPPed in either HDFC Top 200 or DSP Top 100 from Jan 10 to Dec 13, your returns would have been less than 10%. I think probably around 8% or so. Of course, it depends on the day of the month when your buying is done - however, I doubt if it varies so much as to get to 18-20%.

How exactly are you calculating the returns?

I may be wrong, but I have registered in moneycontrol.com/portfolio where I see the returns. My calculations are simple - Profit/investment*100. (For eg. Profit of 56K on an investment(SIP) of 3.2L gives me a return of 17.5%). Again like you said the date of investment matters. Normally I SIP on the futures expiry date around the last thursday of every month when market traditionally falls and the MF units accumulated are the highest.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

I may be wrong, but I have registered in moneycontrol.com/portfolio where I see the returns. My calculations are simple - Profit/investment*100. (For eg. Profit of 56K on an investment(SIP) of 3.2L gives me a return of 17.5%).

That's not a simple calculation - that's a totally wrong calculation. You aren't taking the no of years into consideration at all.

You invest Rs. 100 today & get back Rs. 110 after 1 year - it's a 10% return.
You invest Rs. 100 today & get back Rs. 110 after 4 years, it's roughly a 2.5% return.

56K on 3.2 Lakhs over 4 years of SIPPing is roughly 7-8% returns. You would have probably earned the same in a recurring deposit of the same SIP amount.

[saket77]

I sold all units in one of my MF investments 3 days ago. The redemption request was put online by me and yesterday morning I received a message that my redemption request for XXX units have been processed for Rs. XXX. However, I have not received this money in my bank a/c as yet. My bank a/c details are registered with the fund house. As this was my first online redemption, can anyone clarify that when can I expect the funds to show up in my a/c?

[murugaveln]

Originally Posted by saket77

I sold all units in one of my MF investments 3 days ago. The redemption request was put online by me and yesterday morning I received a message that my redemption request for XXX units have been processed for Rs. XXX. However, I have not received this money in my bank a/c as yet. My bank a/c details are registered with the fund house. As this was my first online redemption, can anyone clarify that when can I expect the funds to show up in my a/c?

Equity MF redemption proceeds are usually credited in about 3-4 days after redemption date. If your redemption date was Tuesday, you can expect the credit on Fri/Mon.
Liquid funds would be credited on the next day itself and other debt funds in a day or two.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by murugaveln

Equity MF redemption proceeds are usually credited in about 3-4 days after redemption date. If your redemption date was Tuesday, you can expect the credit on Fri/Mon.
Liquid funds would be credited on the next day itself and other debt funds in a day or two.

Thanks! Also, the a/c was credited an hour back. The request for redemption was made on Monday evening. Appreciate the information in your post.

Regards,
Saket

[S_U_N]

Those holding on money for the markets to fall, will have to wait longer I guess.
The markets are all 'high' and I cannot see why they would fall sharply before end of December.

The silver lining is that the portfolio is completely green for me at the moment.
My SIP in 6 equity MF's which completed 1 year in October, is now showing me a gain of 8% and annual return of 11.5%.