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Old 8th November 2017, 17:30   #2521
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The fabled Indian crab mentality at work. Never mind what damage was done to the larger picture. And never mind that none of the much larger hoard of black wealth stashed overseas has still to come back to the country. Rs 15 lakhs per citizen to be distributed to all of us, is what we are all waiting breathlessly for, correct?

Who will penalise the CBI for dilly dallying over Mallya on the other hand? The UK court comments on how slip shod is the CBI performance before it makes for sorry reading. But who cares as long as I can bring down the crab just above my shoulder?
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Old 8th November 2017, 17:30   #2522
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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
And the ruling party won elections in some of the poorest states after demonetization, confirming that I am not the only person getting pleasure from the agony of "ruling class" (read - people with money and hence, power).

And that was THE most beneficial outcome? Wow!!
We are a petty nation, agreed, but this takes it to another level altogether!
(I dont subscribe to that view, though. )
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Old 8th November 2017, 17:33   #2523
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And that's me, a middle class salaried person. Consider the joy people from lower economic strata would have got, looking at people having abundance of money being subjected to the same pain as we go through every day.
Perhaps it is many folks who are similar to you, on whom the government of the day has immense faith . As I see around, I have noticed that every single "poor person" (the ironing-man, maids, auto rickshaw drivers) all have neatly survived the demonetization. They all had their jobs, and made pretty much the same level of money which they made earlier.

I was just checking the real estate prices in the surroundings I live. Ads posted nearly 8-10 months back, but it still remains open. No body seems to be buying up land at what ever price quoted like in the earlier days. The only people who buy flat/land seems to be people who have decided to settle down in the city.

In my own home state, I am seeing land deals which was all "considered to be done" now abandoned. Had a 10 cent plot next to our home, which was rumored to have got sold for 1-2 crores. The land was cleaned up, and even the ground work for foundation building started. Now the land is back to its old shape, with over-grown shrubs. Real estate in KL was heavily dominated by black money from the Middle east. That is now decimated. Hawala dealers are getting busted day in and day out. Now if the GoI starts using the provisions of the new Benami property act, it would be more fun.

But in Bangalore at least I do see some business people going back the old way. They are charging the credit charge fees levied by the card companies, to the end user. And then "encouraging" to pay by cash. But every one has been jolted from their slumber. The only whiners who now cry loudly are those who had their life style partly (or fully) depended on unaccounted money. These people were all well entrenched in the system, and were thinking of the days when they could use their ill gotten wealth to earn more ill gotten wealth.
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Old 8th November 2017, 17:44   #2524
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And that was THE most beneficial outcome? Wow!!
We are a petty nation, agreed, but this takes it to another level altogether!
(I dont subscribe to that view, though. )
And when did I said that it was a beneficial outcome, let alone "THE" beneficial one? I smell a prejudice here.

I just told my view on the "plight" of people, of the kind of people who never knew what a plight is.. Plight of poor is just a fake facade for them to rant about their own difficulties..

For poor people, it was just another day of struggle. A different type of struggle, but nothing new, they struggle everyday. Read my post again with this context in mind.
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Old 8th November 2017, 17:58   #2525
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I would like to understand if all the change being advertised, talked about or experienced by our brethren here is directly related to the demon exercise and if there was no better alternative to achieve the same?

Honestly, I feel its more of a pandering to the whims and fancies of some body than an exercise with bona-fide intent at fixing process/policies for the long run. Sadly public memory is short lived.
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Old 8th November 2017, 18:00   #2526
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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
And when did I said that it was a beneficial outcome, let alone "THE" beneficial one? I smell a prejudice here.

I just told my view on the "plight" of people, of the kind of people who never knew what a plight is.. Plight of poor is just a fake facade for them to rant about their own difficulties..

For poor people, it was just another day of struggle. A different type of struggle, but nothing new, they struggle everyday. Read my post again with this context in mind.
Well, it seemed important enough to develop the perception that the ruling party was voted in in many states because the poorer people were "getting pleasure from the agony of "ruling class"."
An experiment with no clear expectations. Just a lot of rolling with the punches, that's what the entire exercise was.
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Old 8th November 2017, 18:09   #2527
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The fabled Indian crab mentality at work.
Everybody is happy that some imaginary black money hoarder got penalized. Even though there is no data to prove that, for the ordinary man, that sight of his rich neighbor standing in the long queue at the ATM, provides enough satisfaction to declare demonetization a success.

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I was just checking the real estate prices in the surroundings I live. Ads posted nearly 8-10 months back, but it still remains open. No body seems to be buying up land at what ever price quoted like in the earlier days. The only people who buy flat/land seems to be people who have decided to settle down in the city.

Had a 10 cent plot next to our home, which was rumored to have got sold for 1-2 crores.
Even though, no wealth actually eroded, the fall in prices of real estate brought down the "net worth" of a lot of individuals. Even if we do not intend to sell our properties any time in the near future, when we hear how the neighboring flat was sold for a crore, we quickly imagine ourselves to be a crorepati, being an owner of a similar flat. Consequently, we alter our lifestyle to that of a crorepati. When the prices fall, we go back to being lakhpatis. And it does hurt.
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Old 8th November 2017, 18:10   #2528
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Nexus of corporates, politicians and media is cleverly keeping people busy in discussion of anniversary celebration of demonetization, and there Panama-Paper and Paradise-Paper gates are taking place but no whisper anywhere.

Yes, we are fighting against corruption and black money.
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Old 8th November 2017, 18:11   #2529
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
The fabled Indian crab mentality at work. Never mind what damage was done to the larger picture. And never mind that none of the much larger hoard of black wealth stashed overseas has still to come back to the country. Rs 15 lakhs per citizen to be distributed to all of us, is what we are all waiting breathlessly for, correct?

Who will penalise the CBI for dilly dallying over Mallya on the other hand? The UK court comments on how slip shod is the CBI performance before it makes for sorry reading. But who cares as long as I can bring down the crab just above my shoulder?
This article appeared in Deccan Herald today. This was written by the late Kannada journalist in her magazine post demonetisation.

Article
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Old 8th November 2017, 19:06   #2530
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
And never mind that none of the much larger hoard of black wealth stashed overseas has still to come back to the country. Rs 15 lakhs per citizen to be distributed to all of us, is what we are all waiting breathlessly for, correct?

But who cares as long as I can bring down the crab just above my shoulder?
Well said. Black money in overseas bank still remains at large to the best of my knowledge.

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Honestly, I feel its more of a pandering to the whims and fancies of some body than an exercise with bona-fide intent at fixing process/policies for the long run. Sadly public memory is short lived.
Bitter truth.

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Everybody is happy that some imaginary black money hoarder got penalized. Even though there is no data to prove that, for the ordinary man, that sight of his rich neighbor standing in the long queue at the ATM, provides enough satisfaction to declare demonetization a success.
While I was standing in one of the queues to get some cash back then, due to the long queue I asked mom who was accompanying me to catch an auto and reach home. Auto driver in usual fashion said "See how effective the government is. Now all those moving around in cars are standing in long queues. They will now realize what life is". Due to income disparity or whatever, most might have thought that car owners, rich neighbors, standing in queue at ATM = demonetization success. Worst part is, even if someone tries to debate on demonetization most individuals instantly label that person as "holder of black money".

Really surprised on how quickly a dream is sold, dream of black money holder suffering and facing litigation. Dream of getting some amount into bank accounts.

In one year, demonetization hasn't earned anything in my view. Even the so called "temporary" troubles were unasked for. And I wonder why so much focus is not given by media to Panama-Papers, Paradise-Paper. Hope there isn't a new dream as the real outcomes of such dreams often leads to nothing.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 8th November 2017 at 19:21.
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Old 8th November 2017, 20:59   #2531
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I am one of the person who got overwhelmed by the Demo decision at that time. But as the time progressed I saw the exercise was turning into worst planned exercise. But government kept assuring about traceable trail for the black money deposited, which made me think that there might be some tracking mechanism in place. So my thinking was that some hardship faced by fellow citizens might be worth the result.

But as days passed, we people were deprived from real statistics of the exercise. We could not see trace ability which was promised, we could not see the quantum of actions. Moreover response to questions from FM was sounding full of attitude. And government seriously lacked followup reforms to continue operation against black money.

So I started questioning the intention of government and still today it is unsolved mystery for me. I will not object wrong decision if the intention is right. But to prove intention is right there should be some followup reforms and actions.

And coming to the part, most people appreciated this because they saw rich people having hardships. This is due to income disparity we have and this is due to reason that maximum percentage of rich are rich because they have chosen wrong path like tax evasion. So poor people has grudge against rich though given an opportunity poor will also cheat the system equally. Here is system at fault, system established by faulty people over the period of time is helping in disparity. And hence we are becoming more corrupt day by day.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 8th November 2017 at 21:09.
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Old 8th November 2017, 21:07   #2532
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What continues to puzzle me is the stock market buoyancy.

One possible explanation is that the stock market doesn't care about the struggles of small, unlisted businesses, which generate the vast bulk of India's employment.

And India will rise or fall based on employment generation or the lack thereof.

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Originally Posted by AltoLXI View Post
This article appeared in Deccan Herald today. This was written by the late Kannada journalist in her magazine post demonetisation.
The Tughlaq analogy is absolutely spot on.

Fortunately, no one can fool all the people all of the time. Unfortunately, some people can be fooled all the time.

Last edited by Sawyer : 8th November 2017 at 21:19. Reason: Merged
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Old 8th November 2017, 22:14   #2533
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I see 4 direct benefits of DEMO so far.

1. Real estate has got more affordable. That's not a good thing for me since I hold some real estate but it's good for the vast majority of the population.

2. Parallel infrastructure to avoid tax like Cooperative banks, Gold pawning firms, moneylenders etc is dismantled to a large extent. That's bad for quite a lot of people especially retired folks who have 30-40 lakh deposits and were not paying taxes on the interest but it's generally good for the country. I also see my maid servants, driver etc taking bank loans for purposes like Bike purchase.

3. Interest rates and inflation have fallen. Big positive for the country but bad if you were sitting on large deposits.

4. Legitimate businesses like Hospitals, large shops etc were doing large scale tax evasion because that was the norm. Nobody really saw it as a crime but the prevailing business practice. The extent of this practice has decreased. There will still be some black money but it's much lesser than before.
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Old 8th November 2017, 22:19   #2534
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What continues to puzzle me is the stock market buoyancy.
Stock markets have mind of their own,sir. Remember the mood when Sensex hit 6000 and closed above 6000 in Jan 2004 .I vividly remember the celebration and then the India shining episode which followed that.

We all know what happened in May 2004.

Last edited by aah78 : 8th November 2017 at 22:35. Reason: Spacing.
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Old 8th November 2017, 22:40   #2535
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

Here is something I wrote last December:
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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
All restrictions will be lifted hopefully by Dec end and I don't have to hear this garbage anymore.
You mean all the old cash should replaced, without any restrictions? Then we will be back in square one within 6 months or so. The entire demonetization operation will be a complete waste.

This is what I am really afraid of. Due to political pressure, if the government increases the cash supply, the effect of demonetization will decrease. If they completely replace it, the effect will be zero.
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I expect things to normalize in the next week or two. As cash comes into the system, limits will gradually relax.
If that happens, it will be really sad. The entire demonetization drive would fail. The situation should normalize by moving towards cashless transactions, and not towards square one, which is cash economy.
As I feared, they kept increasing the cash supply and we are back to square one.
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