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Old 31st August 2018, 13:18   #2596
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Originally Posted by deathwalkr View Post
Call me dumb but isn't getting all of that cash back into the system a good thing? And all that cash need not be white. The tax authorities will be on the case for years to come.
I would urge you to read the following article.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/63114589.cms

So this argument of the government is also false that the cash component of the economy has come down. It is come back to the same level as before.

I urge you to not fall for this last left argument that they are harping now about the tax authorities somehow catching all black money hoarders. It works for the government to now sing this sing as there will never be am assessment of this and If it ever took place or how many people were penalized.
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Old 31st August 2018, 17:23   #2597
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Seeing the kind of evil today's politicians are capable of, I have an inkling that the official version that 99.3% of the notes came back is a lie. It is highly impossible that more than 90% would come back. And now that all those notes have been allegedly turned to hard board, there is no way an independent commission would be able to verify that.

Either way, it was either a scam or a blunder, and if it was the former, it was one that was meticulously planned and executed.
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Old 31st August 2018, 18:24   #2598
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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Seeing the kind of evil today's politicians are capable of, I have an inkling that the official version that 99.3% of the notes came back is a lie. It is highly impossible that more than 90% would come back. And now that all those notes have been allegedly turned to hard board, there is no way an independent commission would be able to verify that.

Either way, it was either a scam or a blunder, and if it was the former, it was one that was meticulously planned and executed.
Didn't get you. So are you trying to say that the ruling government ensured a wrong count to jeopardize it's own decision? What will they gain out of this. Also the way things were going during demonetozation, it was certain that almost all cash will come back. Infact once the news reports started reporting numbers above 10L crores was when suddenly we stopped getting updates and they started saying overnight that they need time to count.

The opposition party has ofcourse no influence left in these institutes. We can be quite certain about that.
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Old 1st September 2018, 00:05   #2599
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Didn't get you. So are you trying to say that the ruling government ensured a wrong count to jeopardize it's own decision? What will they gain out of this.
A Jeopardy that just results in bad press, which people will forget in an year or two, but can bring some 1.6 lakh crores to the party funds is actually a gain.

And look around, do you really see any protests? People are treating it like some comedy that happened some time ago. People have already forgotten all the hardships they went through, and are making jokes about it. I hardly see any outrage.
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Old 1st September 2018, 03:13   #2600
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Originally Posted by deathwalkr View Post
Call me dumb but isn't getting all of that cash back into the system a good thing? And all that cash need not be white. The tax authorities will be on the case for years to come and many will have to pay the penalties.

Was it worth it? In the long run i sure hope it will be. More people will pay their taxes and from what i hear real estate dealings in black have really come down with many unwilling even to accept cash.

Too many tangents of arguments and multiple threads to pluck at.

All in all, it's one big mess
Everyone except the ruling party understands this was a mess.

Getting cash back in the system a good thing: Well, GOI hasn't produced any number according to which anyone is behind bars or fined for the amount returned back, post demonetisation. So, not really. The goal posts and objectives have kept changing and that is what troubled me most.

First it was corruption, then militancy, then fakes, then property prices and God knows what. In essence even if it was not a sinister move (and I believe there was something to it, perhaps UP elections?) it was like lighting a crop on fire to kill the ants.

The only thing that seems a positive is that direct taxes have gone up, despite the GDP losing 2%. Now, co-relation is not causation but there maybe something there.

Other than that, it is almost the biggest crime committed against the citizens of Independent India. People dying and no accountability, welcome to the new India. I look at the tapes the news channels were producing at that time and now can only hang my head in disbelief.

Last edited by pratyush6 : 1st September 2018 at 03:14.
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Old 1st September 2018, 06:34   #2601
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The one and only positive outcome of demonetization is most retailers & petty shops have got themselves a card swiping machine. Most aspects were discussed in Nov 2016 posts in this thread. What we are seeing is proof of that.
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Old 1st September 2018, 07:28   #2602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post

And look around, do you really see any protests? People are treating it like some comedy that happened some time ago. People have already forgotten all the hardships they went through, and are making jokes about it. I hardly see any outrage.
That is the reason why all Politicians enjoy a free run in this country. Scam after scam, no show in parliament, same Roti-Kapda-Makan promises followed by temple vs mosque debates, HC demanding VIP lanes and what not. We forget.

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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post

The only thing that seems a positive is that direct taxes have gone up, despite the GDP losing 2%.
Even this claim of the government is a false representation of facts and is being marketed through their media channels. The number of tax payers has gone up every year on year regardless of demonetization.

Last edited by drmohitg : 1st September 2018 at 07:36.
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Old 1st September 2018, 07:55   #2603
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The Guardian's editorial on this from yesterday!

The high costs of India’s demonetisation

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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
Getting cash back in the system a good thing: Well, GOI hasn't produced any number according to which anyone is behind bars or fined for the amount returned back, post demonetisation.
Guardian has quoted Mihir Sharma from an article on Bloomberg for this specifically. Quoted below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloomberg
Mr Modi’s government has been reduced to boasting that the fact that almost all the cash was returned revealed how efficiently the government can collect money. This is, one columnist wrote, “like throwing yourself off a building while praising how hard the ground is”.
And Indian parliamentary finance committee can’t seem to publish a report into the demonetisation debacle since it appears to be very critical. Govt seen ‘burying’ MPs’ panel report on DeMo

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehindubusinessline.com
According to sources, the report of the 31-member Committee headed by senior Congress leader Veerappa Moily is unlikely to be tabled in the Lok Sabha because it appears to be very critical of the November 2016 demonetisaion, which the government claims is one of its biggest achievements.

Demonetisation was one of 18 subjects that the Committee addressed. Interestingly, the term of the Committee, which was constituted on September 1, 2017, expires on August 31, 2018: according to the rules, the term of Office of these Committees is a year. And if no report is finalised in the next three days, it will be not be possible to table it.

The present Committee comprises 21 members from the Lok Sabha and 10 from the Rajya Sabha. The BJP accounts for 13 members (which is the most from any party); the Congress has four; the AIADMK has three; the Shiv Sena, the TMC and the TDP have two each; and BJD, the SDF, the JD(U), and the CPI (M) have one member each. There is also one nominated member.
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Old 1st September 2018, 08:34   #2604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Seeing the kind of evil today's politicians are capable of, I have an inkling that the official version that 99.3% of the notes came back is a lie. It is highly impossible that more than 90% would come back. And now that all those notes have been allegedly turned to hard board, there is no way an independent commission would be able to verify that.

Either way, it was either a scam or a blunder, and if it was the former, it was one that was meticulously planned and executed.
With the current government, nothing is too far fetched and I am not discounting this or any other theory no matter how controversial. I don't believe that we are a democratic society anymore even because all the institutions that form the backbone of a democracy have been undermined and reduced to symbols which can be abused by those in power. How bad have we let ourselves down.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 1st September 2018 at 08:37.
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Old 1st September 2018, 11:52   #2605
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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
A Jeopardy that just results in bad press, which people will forget in an year or two, but can bring some 1.6 lakh crores to the party funds is actually a gain.
...
Now, that is one angle to this mess I hadn't heard of. Now that you mention it, it may well be the case.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 10:49   #2606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
The only thing that seems a positive is that direct taxes have gone up, despite the GDP losing 2%. Now, co-relation is not causation but there maybe something there.

Other than that, it is almost the biggest crime committed against the citizens of Independent India. People dying and no accountability, welcome to the new India. I look at the tapes the news channels were producing at that time and now can only hang my head in disbelief.
In the days following DeMo, I can vouch for the fact that in the few minutes we were at the bank, trying to exchange old notes, we saw multiple parties walking in, extremely disturbed.. outright surrendering cash in suit-case proportions and walking out with 10%.. which in itself was a big sum according to the bank manager. ;-)

In a small-ish bank with not many customers, and in that short period of 10 minutes, if we saw 2-3 people doing the same thing.. its my calculation that absolutely.. 99.3% of notes returning to the economy is a massive LIE.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 11:47   #2607
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The funny part is money from Bhutan, Nepal and Zimbabwe is yet to come, Though small amounts but NRIs and certain Agencies are still holding some old demonetized currency. My Sister and wife have old currencies, kept for emotional reasons

If we total all that, it will go beyond 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Either way, it was either a scam or a blunder, and if it was the former, it was one that was meticulously planned and executed.
if we add ^^ this to the equation then the ruling party will accuse the opposition of printing more money than accounted for and the blame for the DeMo failure will fall on them(like everything else). A few politicians will be rich, without anyone paying attention. Nice move!


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Old 3rd September 2018, 11:51   #2608
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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
A Jeopardy that just results in bad press, which people will forget in an year or two, but can bring some 1.6 lakh crores to the party funds is actually a gain.
Care to provide source of above Figure in bold else we are speculating or I Will assume some meme you might have seen.

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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
The only thing that seems a positive is that direct taxes have gone up, despite the GDP losing 2%. Now, co-relation is not causation but there maybe something there.

Other than that, it is almost the biggest crime committed against the citizens of Independent India. People dying and no accountability, welcome to the new India.
That's a small cost to pay for bringing dishonest people into books. If they are able to double the taxpayers, I will still favor them. Having said that, they are not finished yet with CBDT saying that they are still in data mining mode and issuing notices. There is a digital trail for each rupee now.

As for crimes against citizens in independent india goes, please ask this to those who have have affected by heinous crimes in past. trust me, This will not even come on last page if one was to write a book on crimes in independent india.

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That is the reason why all Politicians enjoy a free run in this country. Scam after scam, no show in parliament, same Roti-Kapda-Makan promises followed by temple vs mosque debates, HC demanding VIP lanes and what not. We forget.
Please list out what all scams have happened in past 4 years and amounts involved. We have been living on same kapda-makaan promises for some 70 years now and we are expecting changes over night. We got independence 10 years before Malaysia and see where we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Even this claim of the government is a false representation of facts and is being marketed through their media channels. The number of tax payers has gone up every year on year regardless of demonetization.
Could you explain above please. I am sure govt cannot falsify number of tax paying citizens and collected amount.

Lastly, i am surprised with people shouting "Democracy in danger" and what not on this thread.

We got independence from Britishers some 70 years back but some where we are still slave via their proxies.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 11:52   #2609
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And till date no one has been able to explain how introducing a 2000 rupee note instead of the 1000 supposed to tackle black money. Infact they have made it twice as easy to carry cash.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 11:57   #2610
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Govt wanted money to reach people faster so they went with 2000 notes. Going via reports, they are not issuing new notes & have stopped printing them with enough liquidity in market.

https://www.businesstoday.in/current...ry/266471.html

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/busi...in-august.html

At Least, I have not received a 2000 note for some time now out of any ATM machine.
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