Mob Frenzy

naveendhyani · 30th November 2006, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithless_1984

Do you really think that after this incident guys like him will stop throwing stones on vehicles just for the fear of being killed by a mob ??

trust me if this happens 2-3 times in a row you wud drive peacefully for a long long time to come. "fear" is a big deterrant for anybody except the "fidayeens".

dont know how many people here are aware that the movie "GANGAJAL" was based on a real life incident (if i m not mistaken it was jharkhand). the crime rate in that area virtually disappeared until "our elected people" (the MPs & MLAs) put pressure & transferred that police officer (because no criminals = no under the table revenues)

faithless_1984 · 30th November 2006, 17:35

@naveen- arrre Bro, remember what happened at the end of the movie, huh ? were the people allowed to kill the politician and his son? `NO`, remember what devgan said in the end to the mob?

and do you again really think that the situation would have remained the same in jharkhand or where ever for a long time? very soon everyone would have just started pouring acid over each for even a minor fault of someone.!

v1p3r · 30th November 2006, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by naveendhyani

dont know how many people here are aware that the movie "GANGAJAL" was based on a real life incident (if i m not mistaken it was jharkhand). the crime rate in that area virtually disappeared until "our elected people" (the MPs & MLAs) put pressure & transferred that police officer (because no criminals = no under the table revenues)

The incident occurred in Bhagalpur, which is in Bihar, in 1980. It brought international condemnation, because the police poured acid into the eyes of 31 undertrials, and blinded them for life. To refresh your memory, undertrials are not convicted criminals. Until proven guilty, they hold the same status in the eyes of the law, as common citizens.

If you were to be arrested on the word of someone else, and while under detention before your trial, someone decided to blind/castrate/dismember you, would you find it perfectly acceptable as a way of reducing crime in your area?

Just as an aside, since you put "our elected people" in bold, do you actually vote?

Since you appear to be a big fan of Hindi movies with social messages, may I suggest Lage Raho Munnabhai?

msdivy · 30th November 2006, 17:55

I shudder to imagine a State where an offence like pelting stones on vehicles would invite death penalty (even if it is instituted to scare people from doing it) !

Boom Shiva · 30th November 2006, 18:45

msdivy I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's not about throwing stones on vehicles.

It's about throwing stones at vehicles that are moving at high speed and thus putting the lives of their innocent occupants at immense risk.

The people in the cars have not done anything to harm either Ambedkar's statue, or the stone pelter or anyone. They are not even remotely connected to the incident.

Yet this fool throws stones that could possibly kill them, and we all know that in this country, 99 out of 100 times you will get away with it.

Mob violence is an ugly thing, but in this case I'm just glad that the right person was the target, and the mob has intentionally or unintentionally done innocent motorists a favour.

iamkapilb · 30th November 2006, 19:14

Leave aside damaging private vehicles, heard about burning of Local train and 77 Buses! Damn! Whos gonna pay for all this? It will eventually be taken from the taxes we pay! I wont be surprised if BEST hikes its fares or worse still govt. raises Petrol prices to recover all the loses. Money has to come from someones pocket and i'm sure it'll be us as these protestors probably dont earn enough to pay taxes.

zenx · 30th November 2006, 19:42

i got into an accident because of circumstantial reasons (swerved to avoid A, skidded on gravel on the road, hit B. Nobody really injured but volatile region and 'could've been dangerous', like most accidents) and to onlookers qualified as someone 'putting the lives of their innocent occupants at immense risk.'

The mob did get violent and I did get manhandled. Ok for then to 'teach me a lesson' ? Is this why we have laws and procedures and a constitution ? They might not always work, but is this the fix - rig up a lynch mob and dish out instant justice ?

Also - you're justifying pointing to "potential" harm caused and killing a person based on that! Nowhere in the (civilized) world can you be sentenced to death for 'potential to cause harm'.

sajo · 30th November 2006, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenx

.. Nowhere in the (civilized) world can you be sentenced to death for 'potential to cause harm'.

Well, the person's behaviour wasnt exactly civilized as well. A sound thrashing by a few people would have been enough (and, I dare say, called for, in this case), but unfortunately, things got out of hand. If the police had taken him in and kicked him a bit there would be another headline in the papers (Dalit youth tortured by police!!) giving these people even more reason to riot (and arson).
Just look what they have turned Mumbai and Pune into. Burning down trains and all. Just results in tax payer's loss.

naveendhyani · 30th November 2006, 20:04

@ all who think we live in a civilised world

Dalit protests intensify in Maharashtra, three killed

please go thru the whole article before passing on the judgement on the civilised world. unfortunate, but we certainly are far far away from it. some people dont behave in a human fashion but as an animal does. they should be treated the same way.

you dont qualify to be a human being becase u were born as one. your actions make you a human.

and to top it all the "elected ones" will ask us to shell out more as tax & distribute free jobs to these buggers, who dont even qualify to be human beings.

sajo · 30th November 2006, 20:12

You wont believe how much damage these guys are causing. Small cities and towns around Maharashtra are bearing the brunt of this (Nanded, Solapur, Nashik). They are openly indulging in arson and looting : people's belongings are snatched, shops being broken into, and everyone needlessly being beaten up and their properties burnt. Ofcourse, the media doesnt report all this. ( I have got first hand information from eyewitnesses about the severity of it). So when the "other" section of the society finally decides they have had enough and start hitting back, they are branded as "uncivilised" and "against humanity".
Ofcourse, all of this is carried out because all sections are egged on by the politicians, who thrive on instability and social unrest.

rahul_intlad · 30th November 2006, 20:20

Actually what are people in maharashtra protesting for?

Since when has Kanpur come under the control of Government of Maharashtra?

The irony of the whole thing is that Kanpur is a lot more peaceful right now.

zenx · 30th November 2006, 20:37

Disagree. The basis of a democratic/civilized society is follow laid out norms and rules, including those that describe how the elements that do not fit in (as in follow agreed upon rules or in other words act 'uncivilized') are to be dealt with. Reacting to "them" with "the same way" can only lead to a breakdown of civil society.
OTOH, I do not see a strong desire in many to have a civil society in the first place. People generally want things arranged such that they're taken care of, and end up having the upper hand.
Ambedkar must be turning in his grave seeing how the 'downtrodden', and in fact everyone in general is so quick on the draw. Offense is taken and given easier than ever before, and we have all become rather hypersensitive about some distorted sense of collective identity or the other.
I'd rather take pride in my work, in my ideas and in the difference I make. Not in whatever "group" I get thrust in, or whatever I might be able to do to by way of disparaging/harming the 'others'.

F50 · 30th November 2006, 21:08

This incident happened in Kanpur, UP ... Property worth over Rs. 4 crores including 5 passenger train coaches and local train coaches as well 91 buses, cars etc was damaged ... is this deal? Local life was disrupted.
Anything happens, protests will be starting in some other place, this is too common in India. Theres absolutely no news from Kanpur.
Sometime ago in Bombay property worth over Rs. 1 crore was damaged.
Bandh ... property damage is the only way they can think.

Believe me remove all the statues all over India. Nobody remembers the person everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

If you say the reason are different then, every mob has its reason whether its valid or not that needs to be decided by the authorities.

This is Time Pass. Mob and all is literal time pass.

P.S: When i was writing this post ... some Dalit leader was saying..."Aaj maalum pada jab Dalit Log ko koi baat apmaanit lagti hai toh Hum log kuch bhi kar sakte hai" (Not exact words but this is what he wanted to convey)

I mean come on ... this thing is encouraging, rather than asking not do such thing it is encouraged. Stop protests and if you wanna carry out them, carry out them in a proper way and not by damaging public property and endangering others lives.

vivekkr_99 · 30th November 2006, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanak

What happens when mobs use the same logic to bash up someone whos been in an accident?

This is not a new thing.. the guy in the bigger vehicle will always be at the mercy of the crowd... In accidents involving big vehicles and somebody in a smaller vehicle gets hurt, unless the driver flees for his life, his life will be in great danger.
Unfortunately, thats the situation in most of the places, as there will always be some people in the mob, who just want to vent their frustration on whoever they think is financially above them.

vivekkr_99 · 30th November 2006, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

In this case, a mob has taken a life. Unfortunately you cannot sentence someone to death for a crime he may have committed had that stone caused the death of another. There are other ways to ensure justice.

He perfectly deserves what he got.. He was not throwing stones just to scare people, but definitely to find a moving target and wound/kill the people inside. There is no other explanation for his anti-social act. The mob didnt attack an innocent person, but someone who was purposely trying to harm others. He was not lucky this time or not agile enough to run away seeing the mob. 99% of the cases, these people just escape after hurting other people, thats it.
As long as we are not the target of his stones, we'll keep on discussing whether this is right or that is wrong!!!!

30th November 2006, 17:35	#32
faithless_1984 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,575 Thanked: 327 Times View My Garage	@naveen- arrre Bro, remember what happened at the end of the movie, huh ? were the people allowed to kill the politician and his son? `NO`, remember what devgan said in the end to the mob? and do you again really think that the situation would have remained the same in jharkhand or where ever for a long time? very soon everyone would have just started pouring acid over each for even a minor fault of someone.! Last edited by faithless_1984 : 30th November 2006 at 17:55.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 17:55	#34
msdivy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,844 Thanked: 2,855 Times	I shudder to imagine a State where an offence like pelting stones on vehicles would invite death penalty (even if it is instituted to scare people from doing it) !
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 18:45	#35
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 19 Times	msdivy I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's not about throwing stones on vehicles. It's about throwing stones at vehicles that are moving at high speed and thus putting the lives of their innocent occupants at immense risk. The people in the cars have not done anything to harm either Ambedkar's statue, or the stone pelter or anyone. They are not even remotely connected to the incident. Yet this fool throws stones that could possibly kill them, and we all know that in this country, 99 out of 100 times you will get away with it. Mob violence is an ugly thing, but in this case I'm just glad that the right person was the target, and the mob has intentionally or unintentionally done innocent motorists a favour.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 19:14	#36
iamkapilb BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 93 Thanked: 9 Times	Leave aside damaging private vehicles, heard about burning of Local train and 77 Buses! Damn! Whos gonna pay for all this? It will eventually be taken from the taxes we pay! I wont be surprised if BEST hikes its fares or worse still govt. raises Petrol prices to recover all the loses. Money has to come from someones pocket and i'm sure it'll be us as these protestors probably dont earn enough to pay taxes.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 19:42	#37
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,163 Thanked: 161 Times View My Garage	i got into an accident because of circumstantial reasons (swerved to avoid A, skidded on gravel on the road, hit B. Nobody really injured but volatile region and 'could've been dangerous', like most accidents) and to onlookers qualified as someone 'putting the lives of their innocent occupants at immense risk.' The mob did get violent and I did get manhandled. Ok for then to 'teach me a lesson' ? Is this why we have laws and procedures and a constitution ? They might not always work, but is this the fix - rig up a lynch mob and dish out instant justice ? Also - you're justifying pointing to "potential" harm caused and killing a person based on that! Nowhere in the (civilized) world can you be sentenced to death for 'potential to cause harm'.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 20:04	#39
naveendhyani BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 542 Thanked: 9 Times	@ all who think we live in a civilised world Dalit protests intensify in Maharashtra, three killed please go thru the whole article before passing on the judgement on the civilised world. unfortunate, but we certainly are far far away from it. some people dont behave in a human fashion but as an animal does. they should be treated the same way. you dont qualify to be a human being becase u were born as one. your actions make you a human. and to top it all the "elected ones" will ask us to shell out more as tax & distribute free jobs to these buggers, who dont even qualify to be human beings. Last edited by naveendhyani : 30th November 2006 at 20:06.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 20:12	#40
sajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 2,625 Thanked: 1,154 Times	You wont believe how much damage these guys are causing. Small cities and towns around Maharashtra are bearing the brunt of this (Nanded, Solapur, Nashik). They are openly indulging in arson and looting : people's belongings are snatched, shops being broken into, and everyone needlessly being beaten up and their properties burnt. Ofcourse, the media doesnt report all this. ( I have got first hand information from eyewitnesses about the severity of it). So when the "other" section of the society finally decides they have had enough and start hitting back, they are branded as "uncivilised" and "against humanity". Ofcourse, all of this is carried out because all sections are egged on by the politicians, who thrive on instability and social unrest.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 20:20	#41
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 5 Times	Actually what are people in maharashtra protesting for? Since when has Kanpur come under the control of Government of Maharashtra? The irony of the whole thing is that Kanpur is a lot more peaceful right now. Last edited by rahul_intlad : 30th November 2006 at 20:24.
	() Thanks

30th November 2006, 20:37	#42
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,163 Thanked: 161 Times View My Garage	Disagree. The basis of a democratic/civilized society is follow laid out norms and rules, including those that describe how the elements that do not fit in (as in follow agreed upon rules or in other words act 'uncivilized') are to be dealt with. Reacting to "them" with "the same way" can only lead to a breakdown of civil society. OTOH, I do not see a strong desire in many to have a civil society in the first place. People generally want things arranged such that they're taken care of, and end up having the upper hand. Ambedkar must be turning in his grave seeing how the 'downtrodden', and in fact everyone in general is so quick on the draw. Offense is taken and given easier than ever before, and we have all become rather hypersensitive about some distorted sense of collective identity or the other. I'd rather take pride in my work, in my ideas and in the difference I make. Not in whatever "group" I get thrust in, or whatever I might be able to do to by way of disparaging/harming the 'others'.
	() Thanks