Team-BHP > Shifting gears


View Poll Results: My experience on Flipkart has been
Good 113 30.13%
Neutral 144 38.40%
Bad 118 31.47%
Voters: 375. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th October 2018, 10:17   #181
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Good to hear!Either the thread or pgportal made a difference
It was definitely Tbhp, I logged my issue on the Pgportal just the day before this call, I do not believe it could bring such an impact in such a short time. If itís true then I believe itís a monumental governance model.

I also sent emails to customer service head, that could have also influenced this.

Latest updates: I received a mail from them after I sent them my bank details.

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-324c98ad9baa47f597474f6a59b7ad93.jpeg

Hoping that this would end today.

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 12:10   #182
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,975
Thanked: 5,996 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The email ID was created in 2005, I had an invite back then I ruined pramodkumar@gmail by forgetting the password so had to add a number
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Assume your Flipkart account was created using your gmail ID with the number, not the original gmail ID from 2005. Is that right?
Is Flipkart saying that your Flipkart account is also linked to the other gmail ID? Wonder how that's possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
There is certainly something wrong with their algorithms. I had 23k worth of fraud transactions done on flipkart about two months ago. I immediately called the bank and canceled the card and then called flipkart who then said that my account was linked to 14 individuals. It made no sense at all, because I was and still am a genuine user with no duplicate accounts. They even gave names of the other users so the customer care person was not lying, he really thought that my account had 14 other linked users. I could not make him understand, and even his team lead parroted the same explanation.
I have a strong suspicion that they have a problem with their fraud detection algorithm.

Right... like you needed me to point that out

Hear me out - fraud detection for online systems like this where there is no joining fee (i.e. no entry barrier for a new customer) requires them to look for fraud not just in a single user account, but across user accounts.

So, one aspect of their algorithm might be analyzing email IDs to try and correlate multiple IDs to the same "entity" using fuzzy pattern matching.

If I were a fraudster, I might use arunphilip1@example.com as the address to initiate certain frauds (e.g. return a brick instead of a Lenovo cell phone). Now, knowing that account is going to be blacklisted, my next attempt at fraud with a Xolo phone will use a new ID arunphilip22@example.com. Assume the same pattern occurs for a total of 13 IDs.

Now, my explanation definitely makes sense for digitalnirvana's experience. There were IDs similar to his used for fraud, and if a genuine ID like arunphilip81@example.com was also swept up by the fraud algorithm, it could result in his account being flagged for fraud against 14 accounts. This is more likely if (but not limited to when) the number of orders against the genuine account is small.

So that's how Flipkart sees fraud spread across 14 accounts. A technically unsavvy customer service exec will be presented on their internal systems a warning "Fraud against 14 accounts" which he/she would have misspoken in an ambiguous way.

However, it does not explain why pramodkumar sees other orders from 2005. Let me still make a vague attempt.

I suspect that his statement "I ruined pramodkumar@gmail by forgetting the password" is not the case, but more likely that his first email account was hijacked via the reset password option, which is sadly a bit too easy when not protected by two-factor authentication. My suspicion is strengthened by the fact that an email ID with just a first name and last name is something that will be sought after.

Now, it is somewhat possible that at Flipkart they physically merged the Flipkart accounts created with both pramodkumar@gmail and Pramod's current email ID. However, I cannot see any rational reason for them doing this on their own, and if true is indicative of shoddy account management! Flipkart should have a distinct fraud "virtual profile" that encompasses multiple email IDs, multiple similar addresses (e.g. "5th Main Road" and "5th Mn. Rd."), but there is no need to alter the actual user accounts!

The other slim possibility is that Pramod registered using pramodkumar@gmail at Flipkart, and subsequently updated his email ID to the current one. Due to some error, Flipkart kept track of orders against both email IDs against Pramod's account - the one that Pramod genuinely used, and the older one that was likely used by a fraudster.

Anyway, these are my two cents on these specific observations. If there's a shred of truth to what I've mentioned above, Flipkart need to further fine tune their algorithms. Like the justice system, it is better to let 10 fraudsters get away than annoy 1 genuine customer.


PS: The example.com domain is reserved for examples, so there is no risk of spam if bots attempt to send emails to any address at that domain. So don't worry about some poor Arun being spammed with the sample email ID's I've used above.

Last edited by arunphilip : 29th October 2018 at 12:14.
arunphilip is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 14:11   #183
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post

The other slim possibility is that Pramod registered using pramodkumar@gmail at Flipkart, and subsequently updated his email ID to the current one. Due to some error, Flipkart kept track of orders against both email IDs against Pramod's account - the one that Pramod genuinely used, and the older one that was likely used by a fraudster.
I shouldn't have brought the pramodkumar@gmail story into this, way back in 2005, when Gmail invites were going out i created an ID, something happened and it could not finish the process, when I tried again ,it said the ID is already taken.

Now the orders in my Flipkart account were never visible to me. They became visible after the whole fiasco and when my account got unlocked.

I am suspecting that these got added after the whole fiasco as a face saving measure.

In other news

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/...rom%20%251%24s

PS: no money has come yet to my account.

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 29th October 2018 at 14:15.
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 14:30   #184
Senior - BHPian
 
SilentEngine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KA19,KA04
Posts: 1,131
Thanked: 483 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
However, it does not explain why pramodkumar sees other orders from 2005. Let me still make a vague attempt.
My simple answer would be that the internal data modeling of accounts/orders is buggy. They may have messed up accounts/orders as part of some data migration.

I just went to my own Flipkart orders section (both in mobile app and web version) and see that it is not showing some of my older orders (from 3-4 years back). So where are those? Probably some other user is seeing some of my orders .
SilentEngine is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 14:40   #185
BHPian
 
digitalnirvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: pale blue dot
Posts: 351
Thanked: 1,331 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

While on the topic of account security, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance keeps on sending me motor policy renewal notices for other users, despite me telling them multiple times not to and that it is a breach of data. The users names start with the same letter as my first name, so I am quite sure they are sending their notices to me as my email ID closely matches theirs. This means my policy notices must also be going to other users. This has been going on for nearly 3 years now.

Off topic for this thread but thought of mentioning.
digitalnirvana is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 15:32   #186
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

question I have with everyone is why is everyone blaming their ML Algorithm? Don't you guys see, they pulled out something this big in front of all your eyes and are now getting a benefit a doubt?

They kept my money locked for over 15 days now(it's still with them) without any compensation, without any penalty. If this is how easily we let them off and move on, no wonder many vendors are taking advantage of us customers. Their account security is their problem, even a drop shipping website can perform better than Flipkart in terms of integrity and fairness.

I still feel its a face saving measure by Flipkart, I searched my mailbox today, I couldn't find a single mail from Flipkart before I created my ID, if someone was using my account, shouldn't I see correspondence from them in the past?

Their Technical head went on to say that they also verified my email with the fraudster and hence they were clear, if that is true I should have some traces of their correspondences some where, who would explain how these orders magically appeared after the fiasco?

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 29th October 2018 at 15:34.
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 16:31   #187
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,975
Thanked: 5,996 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
question I have with everyone is why is everyone blaming their ML Algorithm? Don't you guys see, they pulled out something this big in front of all your eyes and are now getting a benefit a doubt?
I would hardly say I'm giving them the benefit of doubt, as the below posts would indicate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
However, pramodkumar's problem (and his motivation in creating this thread) is that Flipkart's own support have totally dropped the ball in terms of handling a customer. From Pramod's earlier comments, Flipkart appear to have wrongly assumed that Pramod was trying to defraud them through cancellations, failed to provide any evidence, deactivated his account, and have withheld 4k worth of gift cards that he redeemed. This is on top of the issues he's had in getting an order that he placed fulfilled.

So, even if the problem originally originated with the seller, Flipkart appear to have dropped the ball massively in how they manage one of their customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
In any case, good Flipkart have reached out to you (finally!). Also good of them to have offered both options. It's a shame it took this long, and caused this much grief to you.
You do realize that it's not either-or, right? Flipkart have messed up big time in their customer handling and customer service. AND, it is also possible that part of that was caused by flawed fraud detection algorithms. By talking about the latter, we're not giving them a free pass for the former.
arunphilip is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 18:09   #188
Team-BHP Support
 
Zappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 5,886
Thanked: 2,485 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post

Some one from Rajasthan was defrauding Flipkart using my email ID, till 2015. After 2015 he just mysteriously stopped. Flipkart's algorithm flagged my ID during BBS and they cancelled all the orders due to that and not because the seller screwed up
ROTFL... The more of these FK bullshits that I keep hearing the more I become assured that there is "something rotten in the state of Denmark". The above story is not only fantabulously crazy but it also probably make you wonder on whether their senior leadership does even askis the right questions to their feeder line guys on such cock and bull stories that they supply to justify their stand! Had I been the one entrusted to talk to the customer I would have refused to take such an unbelievable gobbledygook.

An email address is not a shared resource for someone else to use till a certain date and then for someone else to take over from thereon. Also, unless you started using this ID very recently on FK, in which case they get an opportunity to make a claim (albeit defective) of the kind they did, they stand to get questioned back on how come they suddenly woke up in 2018 for something which they claim to have happened in 2015! And in case there are multiple successful transactions that you carried out on their platform using your ID before this BBS (which you did) then it only weakens their story further.

The bottomline is that FK as an organization does little to instill confidence in you as a customer with the kind of knee jerk reactions they seem to take. They do not even have the grace to accept that we dropped the ball here but we will set it correct henceforth and will work to ensure that no further repeats of such instances crop up. Instead of that they feed you a story (which they think will save their collective faces) and then load your account with hundreds of cancelled transactions (purportedly fraudulent ones) to support that narrative.
Zappo is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 18:45   #189
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Latest update my Flipkart wallet has 0 money in it. So I hope they have staytge refund process.

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-3ce5f565bce844c1874ea5e093188991.jpeg

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 19:42   #190
Senior - BHPian
 
dailydriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: KA - IND
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 3,691 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Latest update my Flipkart wallet has 0 money in it.
Just wondering why, in spite of the dirty fracas and the loss of trust in Flipkart, you have chosen to have your cards (still) saved in the account. Shouldn't you have removed them as soon as you were able to login to the account?
dailydriver is offline  
Old 29th October 2018, 20:15   #191
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Just wondering why, in spite of the dirty fracas and the loss of trust in Flipkart, you have chosen to have your cards (still) saved in the account. Shouldn't you have removed them as soon as you were able to login to the account?
Did that just now, Thanks for letting me know, I didn't realize its so simple to remove my card details.

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:15   #192
Senior - BHPian
 
GrammarNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,273
Thanked: 2,597 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Flipkart has delayed my Prepaid order by 20days.

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-img_20181030_225657.jpg

No mail, call or message. I only just realised as it was supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

TBH to me this isn't so urgent that I can't manage without the product, nor do I have any issues with it being kept with my neighbour if I'm not at home then, but there would be so many people who are eagerly waiting for delivery of what can be a vital & necessary product.

These guys don't realise the value of time.
GrammarNazi is offline  
Old 31st October 2018, 18:18   #193
Senior - BHPian
 
pramodkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gods own country
Posts: 2,285
Thanked: 2,015 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

There is a closure to my issue, the 4000 RS has come to my account.

This was not a voluntary closure, we can confidently say they were forced them for a closure and the true strength of tbhp was evident in this whole scenario.

Now as a paying customer am I happy? Not at all!

I received what belonged to me in the first place, 17 days for closing the issue with an obvious outcome is unacceptable.

Flipkart has lost my business forever, they didn't even try to retain me(speak volumes on their priorities). I know it wont make any difference in their lives, however it will make a huge difference in mine.

So I have finally deleted the app from my phone. I am not sure on how I can delete my account with them, else I would have done that as well.

Pramod
pramodkumar is offline  
Old 31st October 2018, 18:21   #194
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arunphilip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,975
Thanked: 5,996 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
There is a closure to my issue, the 4000 RS has come to my account.
Congratulations for toughing it out, and fighting your corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
I am not sure on how I can delete my account with them
Go to the website, login with your credentials, and under 'my account' there's an option to delete your account.
arunphilip is offline  
Old 31st October 2018, 18:34   #195
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 12,095
Thanked: 20,233 Times
Default Re: Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
So I have finally deleted the app from my phone. I am not sure on how I can delete my account with them, else I would have done that as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
Go to the website, login with your credentials, and under 'my account' there's an option to delete your account.
I can see an option to deactivate the account:

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-screenshot_20181031182215__01.jpg

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-screenshot_20181031182227__01.jpg

Malpractices in Flipkart's Big Billion sale-screenshot_20181031182322__01.jpg
a4anurag is online now  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks