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Old 17th June 2020, 07:56   #76
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
In law, nothing is cast in stone. It depends on the ability of the lawyer to bring out facts that will convince judges to look at parameters outside existing decisions / case laws provided such evidence is put together to be convincing enough.

There is something known as constructive direct abetment where even though there was no direct voice calls, there is sufficient evidence to show that there were enough acts committed by certain people that amounts to abetment....

A good lawyer can only create castles in the air based up to a point. Beyond that interpretation of the Judge and the evidence on record collected by the police take over.

Secondly , there is no such thing as 'constructive direct abetment' while looking at a case under 306. The Judges simply have to find a direct link between the act committed and if the accused in question compelled /was instrumental for the commitment of that act by the victim. You need mens rea. That is intention and that is very hard to prove. Specially when the only record available are tweets and newspaper articles by the media.


The facts of the case according to you:

1) Where is the evidence to show he was refused films because A called B or C called D and asked that he be thrown out. Without that it is hearsay and media speculation.

2) Actors get thrown out of pictures all the time. Are you going to question the casting directors ,producers and scriptwriters of these so called films to ask why he was thrown out? They would simply say he did not fit the bill. And that is no offence.

3) What fight with YFR? Is there anything on record that he was strangulated by YFR and barred from working in other projects. Will the people from the industry come and give statements against YFR? A lawyer will have nothing if he does not get these statements. Will the police even call these people in for questioning or will the police even record their statements if they want to give one? The way investigation in this country works, you need not be remotely connected to the offence to be called an accused.

4) Again, all hearsay. So what if A has joined B. It is immaterial what gets printed in media. To book someone for an offence under 306, a newspaper article is not enough. The nature of this industry is such, most of their dealings are unwritten and verbal.

He being sidelined does not constitute an offence on its own. You cannot compel someone to give you work or to retain you. They may have created an environment for him to suffocate but unless people come out and give evidence and want the police to record their statements, merely throwing names and tweets are not enough.

Like I said earlier, this can be a landmark case to bring these so called bollywood biggies down if the cops do their work honestly and people come out in support of the deceased and give statements, records, evidence, leads etc. Then a good lawyer can take them all down.And finally you need a Judge who can read between what he has on his desk and what is hidden and give a befitting judgement.

Is this a fit case for 306? It sure can be. But the case will have to rest on its own merit and not the shortcomings of alleged accused.

306 does not cover anything and everything that can be remotely called abetment.
I once did a case for a client under 306 where my client gave money to A. When asked for repayment, A would evade and dillydally so my client allegedly threatened to break his bones and ransack his house( This was the prosecution case). A committed suicide leaving a suicide note. The court found that this was not a fit case for 306.

I know a thing or two about IPC, I am a practicing criminal attorney.

We can discuss the nuisances of 306 in private without clogging this thread further if you want to.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 17th June 2020 at 21:58. Reason: Please do not quote long posts in entirety. If responding to specific points, use multi-quote.
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Old 17th June 2020, 09:29   #77
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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A good lawyer can only create castles in the air based up to a point. Beyond that interpretation of the Judge and the evidence on record collected by the police take over.

Secondly , there is no such thing as 'constructive direct abetment' while looking at a case under 306. The Judges simply have to find a direct link between the act committed and if the accused in question compelled /was instrumental for the commitment of that act by the victim. You need mens rea. That is intention and that is very hard to prove. Specially when the only record available are tweets and newspaper articles by the media.


The facts of the case according to you:.................
Couldn't agree more. Most of us have no idea how law is supposed to work and therefore have no appreciation of the law as such. I am tired of seeing petition posts on my facebook timeline already. It is no value what so ever. We need rational prudence, not emotional judgements based on random tweets.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 17th June 2020 at 09:32. Reason: removed the full quote for readability
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Old 17th June 2020, 11:32   #78
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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I know a thing or two about IPC, I am a practicing criminal attorney.
We can discuss the nuisances of 306 in private without clogging this thread further if you want to.
Glad to see a lawyer here!
That said, while my knowledge of the criminal justice system is India is virtually zilch next to you, I'm fairly certain, all this talk of prosecuting anyone in the film industry guilty or not, is day dreaming.
No one is going to shake the apple cart of the Indian film industry as long as the bigwigs are ensconced in their palaces.

RIP Sushant. Om shanti.
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Old 17th June 2020, 15:54   #79
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

This hits hard. He was young, hardworking, and talented. We have mutual friends and work colleagues, all of whom are currently in shock. This was a gentleman whose Twitter bio was about the dual nature of photons, and peppered conversations with quotes from philosophers and scientists.

I can relate to what he was feeling and what it looks like to someone inside the hellhole that is their own mind. I have had and been treated for depression, and it is a long and difficult path back to normalcy. The luckier amongst us have a support system, or just an easier time of it. From this thread, it is evident that some other BHPians have had similar experiences, and have been successful in recovering. When I began, I was told things like 'it's in your head' and 'cheer up, you are lucky'. I am grateful (if that word is appropriate) that we are finally acknowledging mental illness as real illness, just like the rest of the world does.

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It's just surprising to hear this news of his death. Depression spreads negativity. A mere walk on along the streets of an Indian city/town/village can give one feel what is life and why he should be content with what he has. These news media spread the word 'depression', 'rape' etc ., so bad that it enters into the mind of teenagers and kids too. The best way to avoid depression is to stop reading internet news, stop watching news channels. .
I will keep this as short and civil as possible. You are wrong, and what you have said is offensive and dangerous. Depression is as real a disease as cancer or as losing your arm in an accident. It is not 'spread' by 'these news media'. The majority of people having this attitude and the stigma associated with mental health are primary reasons why people feel trapped and fall prey to suicide, rather than better themselves. I respectfully suggest you educate yourself on the truth about depression and mental illness. You would not tell a cancer patient to 'stop reading' and be content with what they have. And as far as your equating depression and rape goes, I CANNOT EVEN.

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Originally Posted by Pintz View Post
I haven't really been posting much in here but I can assure you I've been reading many threads. But here, I have to let you know that I've been through this hell for 2 long years and have survived to tell.
Depression can come to anyone, at any age and can be devastating if you miss the signs. One needs courage to deal with it...
Suicide is for the weak. Strong people find different paths to help them through.

At certain points, no doctors or even friends can help. All they can give you is a pep talk which may sound irrelevant to you. Medication is even worse because it makes you dependent. Luckily, I'm adversely against medicine. So I didn't go for it.
As a fellow survivor, I congratulate you and can empathise with what you must have felt. I feel it my duty to point out that suicide is NOT for the weak. To dismiss someone who fell prey to suicide as 'weak' is to trivialise the individual's suffering and denounce them. I also must say that medication and doctors DO help. Mental illness is just as real a medical condition as a fracture, and discouraging medical advice for it is dangerous.

@moderators - I have posted because the advice given is dangerous and misleading. Please edit/delete as you see fit.

Last edited by v1p3r : 17th June 2020 at 16:03. Reason: mod note
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Old 17th June 2020, 17:10   #80
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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You would not tell a cancer patient to 'stop reading' and be content with what they have. And as far as your equating depression and rape goes, I CANNOT EVEN.
The content of mine is misconstrued or maybe I could've put it in a much better manner. What I really wanted to say was that the media portray news in such a way that it causes a feel of discomfort to different kinds of people. Sushant Singh Rajput has committed suicide is news. Due to what is the job of cops. But these media simply carry out their own stories after that on what could've happened. I said to refrain from knowing more through such channels. But I don't want persons who are depressed to end up lives after watching such news channels.

I've been through years of choking throat situations in my life when I was unsuccessful or let down through every angles of life. I don't know if that was called depression. But definitely those were some pretty bad times. And I totally empathize the difficulties related to depression.

Last edited by KPR : 17th June 2020 at 17:24.
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Old 17th June 2020, 17:24   #81
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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Originally Posted by KPR View Post
The content of mine is misconstrued or maybe I could've put it in a much better manner. What I really wanted to say was that the media portray news in such a way that it causes a feel of discomfort to different kinds of people. ...
...
But those were some pretty bad times.
Thank you for the clarification. Yes, what you went through is definitely debilitating and possibly could have benefited from treatment or help. I hope you are better now.

I agree that the media is, for the most part, absolutely wretched. I think The Hindu is one of the few papers that got it right. They stuck to the facts and pasted a link to helplines at the bottom.
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Old 17th June 2020, 18:34   #82
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
As a fellow survivor, I congratulate you and can empathise with what you must have felt. I feel it my duty to point out that suicide is NOT for the weak. To dismiss someone who fell prey to suicide as 'weak' is to trivialise the individual's suffering and denounce them. I also must say that medication and doctors DO help. Mental illness is just as real a medical condition as a fracture, and discouraging medical advice for it is dangerous.

@moderators - I have posted because the advice given is dangerous and misleading. Please edit/delete as you see fit.

Medication is advised when the depression is due to an imbalance in the body. Many people have depression due to a certain lack of vitamins in the body. But medication is addictive. I've seen my friend on medication suffer for 3 long years, without any progress, until the day she was hospitalized for a dislocated arm. Her sons cleaned up the drawers of all meds and sent her for nature therapy. Now, since the past 2 years, she's back to her normal self.

And I say weak, meaning, weakness of the moment. I believe, as a survivor, one needs faith in oneself and a will to get out of the situation. If you re-read my post, I've mentioned that help is available in a confidante, friend, doctor, meditation, music, art, anything that will give you *time* to work things out.
This phase has no on/off switch. It takes tremendous amount of time and faith in oneself.
I apologize if you feel I was giving dangerous and misleading advice. I wasn't. Just stating facts about my own experiences.
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Old 17th June 2020, 19:38   #83
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

We have lost a really great talent. Normally I do not shed tears when an emotional scene is played. But the climax scene in MSD the Untold Story is so brilliantly portrayed by him that tears swelled up my eyes to the point where I couldn't hold them anymore, I got goosebumps, a dopamine charge and everything at once.
Such was his talent. He really struck a chord so powerful.
To remember him and his brilliance, I am sharing this YouTube video that I came across.



This is an instrument version of the song KAUN TUJHE from MSD the Untold Story.

It is really heart-warming.

Kindly take 3 mins out your busy schedule and please listen to this so that we can remember him and appreciate his brilliant performance.


I am often told that if I am badly missing someone I really love and lost them, the best thing to do is to remember the good times I had with them and all the good work they have done.

Last edited by Abhinav V : 17th June 2020 at 19:40.
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Old 17th June 2020, 19:52   #84
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

I've been thinking about Sushant's suicide. You know, I've a feeling that Sushant didn't commit suicide because of all that film industry shit.
I think he was unhappy inside, doing what he realized was not what he wanted to do, in the first place. He was a Physicist, and deeply wished to be doing 'real' things ... not acting. He wanted to plant trees, open coding schools for kids, take up farming; he was struggling inside.

After you have achieved all the fame and money that you craved for, there comes a time when you see the hollowness of such forced happiness. True happiness has to come from within. Because when you have fame, you don't know what to do with it except keep on fueling it, if not for himself, for the image he had created. It's like Abhimanyu's Chakravyuh. I really feel sorry for him because he was brilliant, but a lost child.
And now, he's lost forever!

That's why so many many celebs and rock stars have committed suicide at the peak of their careers, unable to handle the emptiness inside.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 17th June 2020 at 20:06. Reason: Merged sentences into paras for better readability. Thanks!
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Old 18th June 2020, 09:42   #85
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

I would admit first that I do not watch too many bollywood movies, especially not the mainstream stuff. My favourite movie from the last decade is Masaan. I did not know much about Sushant either except that he did the Dhoni movie that I havent watched and that he was in PK which i have on and off.

But today I looked him up and the more I know of the guy beyond the glamour and glitz the more I was inspired by his intelligence and absolutely gutted at the same time that he is no more. I had a tear in my eye because it felt like a personal loss. I wonder what goes on in the mind for someone this intelligent, this successful to take his own life. I dont think it was nepotism that killed him either as he did not come across as someone who was motivated by just money and fame, he had both, or someone who would like small talk and would like to hangout with the so called big wigs of the bollywood. You really have to look at his twitter and instagram timeline to really know that kind of person he was. Highly intellectual, a thinker, knew his CERN collider and Quantum physics and someone who is for learning and experiences than mere accumulation. I guess we will never know why and this is precisely the reason why it makes it so hard digest. RIP Sushant. I hope you are happy where ever you are now.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 18th June 2020 at 09:44.
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Old 18th June 2020, 10:33   #86
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

Surprised that nobody blamed the fan. I agree - Rakhi Sawant wants a ban on ceiling fans to stop suicide cases

This is the cinema world for you - Bollywood, Hollywood doesn't matter. Everybody wants a piece of the action - comedy or tragedy.

***

What causes depression?
* stressful life events?
* early losses, trauma?
* medical problems?
* sadness?
* loss of a job?
* loneliness?
* not getting ones due?

These are regular life events that most of the people go through and overcome it. If someone is unable to overcome they must seek out help.

Sushant's family & friends were in touch with him. He had projects on hand and waiting for shootings to resume after lockdown. He, himself is responsible for his death.

On the demand for justice,
* Was he lynched by a mob?
* Was he killed in police custody or encounter?
* Was he murdered & perpetrators are being protected?
* Did someone force him to hang himself at gunpoint?

If not, what is the demand for justice? In a city like Bangalore, there is at least 1 suicide daily. I hope all these folks seek help and if they still want to end their life, being in a happy & sane mind nobody can help.

Sushant Singh was a successful actor, entertained his audience with his talent and unfortunately, it stopped because he decided to take his life. That is the end.

Last edited by msdivy : 18th June 2020 at 10:39.
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Old 18th June 2020, 11:03   #87
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

We read about people dying all the time. Especially in the time of the Pandemic. Irrfan Khan died of cancer not too long back. I was like RIP and I moved on. It wasn't as if I liked Sushant's movies better than Irrfan Khan's. Because that is how I knew both of them.

But still, when I read the news on Sunday afternoon, and I was shocked. Unable to speak, I showed the phone screen to my wife, hoping in my heart, that it was fake. Come Wednesday, my wife was still coming to terms with the news, hoping this is all a setup and he is still alive somewhere and will be back in a couple of weeks.

His personal journey was somewhat similar to his character from Pavitra Rishta. Starting from the bottom of the pile and reaching the top through his hard work, talent and perseverance. Many other male actors have tried to transition from TV to films and failed to make a mark. From the top of my head I recall Rajiv Khandelwal, Amar Upadhyay and Ronit Roy as examples. The only one, as far as I remember, after Shah Rukh Khan to have been truly successful in doing it.

This guy was the middle class champion, the example people like me would look up to for inspiration. He had achieved what many others before had tried and failed. We were the same age, give or take a few months. There is a lot of stuff I myself have common with him, more than what I feel comfortable sharing on a public platform. And I didn't come to this realisation after his death. That is probably the reason why my eyes welled up at least a dozen times when I was typing this out.

Now that he is gone, leaving behind his short legacy, I really hope we don't remember him by the cowardly act he committed by the end of it. This is one thing I am glad that i don't have in common with him. You can't run away from your problems. You have to face them and solve them. Suicide is never the solution, standing up to your fears is. If you don't have the strength right now, buckle down and wait it out. Strength will eventually overcome fear and the problem will get conquered eventually.

Last edited by antz.bin : 18th June 2020 at 11:05.
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Old 18th June 2020, 13:29   #88
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

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Now that he is gone, leaving behind his short legacy, I really hope we don't remember him by the cowardly act he committed by the end of it.
Agree with whatever you said apart from this. I have heard many people say the same about the suicides but it takes immense strength to take oneís life. By outside it is easy to say that suicide is a cowardly act but itís not that linear a thing. No one knows what prompted the decision and we should remember the man for his short legacy only and all the good deeds.

The thing about depression is that many people donít understand the severity of it at all. A brilliant mind like Sushant Singh Rajput deserved a better ending but to term the act as cowardly is belittling him despite the way you feel about him !!
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Old 18th June 2020, 13:32   #89
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I have always felt Bollywood is like one of the countries oldest political parties. It is a family run business infact much worse. Owing to same people who are outside the star family circle end up struggling a lot and rarely get sucess they deserve. In bollywood every star kid can act and become famous generally whereas true talent is left to fend for themselves.

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Old 18th June 2020, 13:48   #90
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Default Re: R.I.P. Sushant Singh Rajput

He was well qualified to have an alternate career, having said that these guys always land up following their heart and that's where the problem starts!
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