[mvadg]

Originally Posted by poloman

...
So there are no two opinions on vaccine...

How about thinking also about the plight of a local ganesha maker who lost his livelihood...

The poll clearly indicates it is a boycott , but I won't hold it against you if you use a loophole, because it serves to prove my point!

By the way, the tobacco industry protested that many involved in the tobacco industry would lose their jobs if there were restrictions on it's operations.

Would you be inclined to allow AI to take over our jobs, because, you know, it will create higher paying jobs and have a synergistic effect on the economy and create more jobs? Why not allow the ganesha idol maker to upskill herself and get a better income in a changing world? - these are not my suggestions, but just a regurgitation of the reasoning put forth by the leading lights of the tech industry in defense of downsizing. By the way, there are Indians in China who source the mass produced ganeshas and make a good living at it. So someone lost a job, but someone else gained a better job. Not going into how many people lost their jobs to create a single trader job.

But why didn't the "Traders Association" do something positive like

• We will ensure that we supply equivalent Indian goods that are as good or better than the Chinese goods at the same price (or lower)
• We will put in place quality requirements on Indian manufacturing
• We will ensure that laborers are not overworked and exploited
• We will ensure better wages so that they are not left high and dry when a pandemic strikes
• We will boycott government officials who have unethical demands
• More?

[FrozeninTime]

Last year during election time, lot of traders belonging to CAIT which is trader lobby imported lot of merchandise for political parties from China and did not buy from Indian manufacturers as it was profitable for them. Where was their patriotism then?

Many drug API were produced in India before 2000. However because of cheaper cost of importing , factories producing these API in India were closed. Now we have to rely on China for it. Didn't Indian Business put their profits before livelihood. Why was Government sleeping then?

One has to realise that it is tough to do business in India as government is more interested in doling out benefits for privileged class because it suits them.

The best practice is to stop this jingoism. Mixing politics with economics is very dangerous. As a matter of fact even EU did business with Soviet Union despite hostilities as it made Soviet Union depended on them.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by mvadg

T

But why didn't the "Traders Association" do something positive like

• We will ensure that we supply equivalent Indian goods that are as good or better than the Chinese goods at the same price (or lower)
• We will put in place quality requirements on Indian manufacturing
• We will ensure that laborers are not overworked and exploited
• We will ensure better wages so that they are not left high and dry when a pandemic strikes
• We will boycott government officials who have unethical demands
• More?

There is nothing remotely related to quality here. It is only about scale and being cheap. An Indian Ganesha will be much better in quality but may not be cheap since we don't have sweat factories and govt support like Chinese do. You should go through some posts here or do some research on how China manipulate the system and loopholes to capture market at any cost even at wafer thin margins but with tactical Govt support. You can try to export some thing to China specially finished goods and you will find how difficult it is. It is mostly a one way path.

You are worried too much about labor welfare. But not worried about equally or even pathetic condition of labor in China. Many migrants you saw on the road may be a out of work weaver or craftsmen force out of their traditional jobs and working in heartless cities.

So when it come to India you are bothered about worker exploitation, but OK when you buy a China product made in sweat factories. This is the classic double speak of left. Here you can speak freely, But by this time you would have been in Jail, had you been in China.

I totally agree though the traders in business class and govt policies are also equally to be blamed for letting the situation flourish. Govt also will be happy so long as they get the import duties.

[Engine_Roars]

Voted yes.

I know it is almost impossible to avoid Chinese products however I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I will do it in hopes that it will try and send a signal to Chinese people if it becomes a mass moment. People saying, it is government jobs to deal with this or they should simply ban importing from China need to understand there is a limit to what a nation can do officially without going to a war. In today's times war is not an option, it should never be. It is not you or me who is losing their loved ones but some one is. We owe it to them.

There are times when things are to be left to public to decide & this is the least we can do. I do not want to fund a country which is hell bent on destroying its neighboring nations & this world intentionally.

[sj_koova]

Wow! more than 60% of the members responded to the poll will not be able to respond in T-BHP anymore because they are either using a laptop, tablet or mobile made in China. From today they won't be using any of those and wait for a laptop assembled with silicon and chip made in India. Isn't it a pipe dream and far from what can be real in the current scenario?

There are two types of Chinese products. Branded products of China and components made in China for brands of another country. Which are you boycotting? If both, you will be living pretty much in stone age.

Now if you say, what bought is bought, I will continue to use them, but I will never buy anything again.
Or if you say no to only Brands of China and yes to brands of other country irrespective of where the raw components are made, I would say it is hypocrisy.

You can't even buy any medicine in India in future because 60% of the raw materials come from China. Are you going to read the composition of every medicine and extract out Chinese particles and molecules before consuming?

I am equally emotional about what is happening between China and India. It pains when our brave soldiers give their life for mother land. When I saw colonel Suresh Babu's daughter standing with prayerful hands in front of his photo, I too had tears in my eyes.

I still use my head to think and and tell heart let my head do its job. I know I can never say no to Chinese items. It is part of our life in one way or other.
I have the realization to say it is not a choice I can make as individual because like in medicine, Chinese items have roots too deep in our lives.

[AZT]

Originally Posted by poloman

Nothing significant will happen. China will be the loser in the long term. When Trump decided to impose tariffs on Chinese, the same arguments were brought in. Like goods will become costlier. US economy will collapse etc. But China was brought to its knees. Then COVID happened.

Trump is exactly the reason why we cannot go that path. There is a lot of fake news regarding this but the so-called 'Trade War' cost the US a lot and now there are reports that Trump asked China for help getting reelected so there was never exactly a Trade War backstage.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...p-china-326563
For the Economic Impact - Trump’s Trade War Cost U.S. Company Stock Prices $1.7 Trillion

Tariff increases affect U.S. consumers, companies, and shareholders. A September 2019 National Foundation for American Policy analysis concluded, “By our calculation, from 2017 through the end of 2018, the Trump tariffs cost the average U.S. household $374. In 2019, the cost per household increased to $461 annually,” if the tariffs remained in place through the end of the year.

Read More: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuarta.../#3d10b6e52794

The Trade war outcome is a whole different discussion but this is a bad example of boycott China working for us.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by poloman

At the risk of going completely off topic, I first have to state that I don't support the left wing or the wrong wing - I change my thinking based on the information I gather and my experiences.
I don't support China, or for that matter any country, including India. What irks me about this "Boycott Chinese goods" campaign is that it is clearly an emotional messaging to deflect from the realities. As the votes show, it is very successful at hitting the right nerve and eliciting the response desired by the perpetrators. People fall for such campaigns, like moths drawn to a flame.
There is a reason why the government is not pushing this as an official campaign - those in the government are fully aware of its hypocrisy, I need not elaborate further.

Coming to what you have stated - quality is something determined by those who buy and sell the shoddy Chinese items they bought at rock bottom prices and then creating that famous "Chinese quality" line to avoid customer complaint redressal. China sells a range of goods from the worst rubbish to extremely high quality goods - some of which are marketed under the biggest brand names in the world.
I am not dismissing your facts on Chinese labor practices - an euphemism for slavery. On the other hand, how do we live with our sewer cleaners dying while cleaning sewers for us? What about the new "labor reforms" carried out by many state governments?

I believe we could achieve a great deal for society if we started campaigns similar to the "Boycott..." against tractable problems around us. Tobacco, for one.

In summary, we are not going to achieve anything by boycotting Chinese goods, though some of us may get the feeling that we are doing our bit and participating in the "war". This sort of thinking also puts a stop to our thinking about the reasons why we got into this war in the first place and why our soldiers were killed. What were the reasons we avoided all the economic benefits of cooperating with China, and the like. I have no answers here, but I'm doing my research. Pointers to relevant information sources welcome.

[kiku007]

Mughals, The East India Company, British, Pakistan, The Party that governed India for 7 decades and China.

What do they all share in common? The blame for all that's wrong in India.

I'm not one bit surprised with the Boycott China rhetoric now because it has worked very well in the past. The idea is to shift accountability and pin the blame on someone else.

It is the DUTY of the elected Government to take care of the country. The Citizen has the liberty to buy any brand, product or service as long as it is legal.

You don't want to buy something because of its country of origin? Sure your wish. But don't think that's going to solve the nation's problem. The truth is far from it. Also, don't force this thought down others throat and make the others feel less patriotic or whatever.

[msdivy]

Why is it that I have to figure out whether the product or its component is from China? That is a kind of joke, isn't it?. Every tiny bit of part or equipment that enters India passes through customs. Why not block there? Or halt business of all Chines companies here? Is it Indian Govt that can be cozy with China but Indian citizens must show red-eye?

Let's say I buy into the anti-China bandwagon and buy 2 ITI rotary dial phones so that I and my friend can speak without using Chinese products. And if I find that our conversation is going a Huawei switch, should I abort speaking to my friend?

What if Hindi Chini bye-bye starts again? Should people replace their Micromax with iPhone then?

[sushantr5]

Chinese Export to India is 2% of their portfolio. Indian Export to China is 17% of our portfolio.

Out of these 2% how much of these will be consumer goods and industrial goods is not known. But assuming 50-50% then even if 100% Indians stop buying Chinese products even then it will be minor boil on China's face.

But even then I will avoid buying Chinese product if alternative is available. And the Sad truth is in almost all the cases alternatives not available in my case. So it is not fruitful exercise apart from nature of this exercise is part of Propaganda. The thinking energy is wasted in this direction. This is what I feel. Till then, even though I feel guilty/ashamed in buying Chinese product I have no option other than buying it.

What is in our hand is the behavior of Government and policy decisions of Government. In these days bureaucracy is fighting for proving Roti as Paratha and Paratha as Roti for GST slabs. Courts have piles of cases which can not be solved till eternity. Law and order situation is not in the favor of simple individual humble citizen. All these things come to environment of business conduct which is not favorable and we expect our Manufacturing will boom next morning is not pragmatic thinking. All these things point that wrong is within us.

I just want to say we should channelize our energy in right direction.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Why is it that I have to figure out whether the product or its component is from China? That is a kind of joke, isn't it?. Every tiny bit of part or equipment that enters India passes through customs. Why not block there? Or halt business of all Chines companies here? Is it Indian Govt that can be cozy with China but Indian citizens must show red-eye?

Let's say I buy into the anti-China bandwagon and buy 2 ITI rotary dial phones so that I and my friend can speak without using Chinese products. And if I find that our conversation is going a Huawei switch, should I abort speaking to my friend?

What if Hindi Chini bye-bye starts again? Should people replace their Micromax with iPhone then?

Good reasons for you to not boycott. Govt has (or is going to ?) asked not to use chinese equipment for 4G for state owned operator. We can do this to whatever extent we can. We cant do it totally. It could be a people's movement. Govt cant do it since there will be repercussions at WTO or other formal levels.

If prices of some items are more if we were to not use Chinese products and they were made it India, wouldn't it be similar to a little cess to create more jobs in India ?

[ike]

Haven't read the entire thread but I think there are people who are under the impression that China became the manufacturing hub just because of cheap labour. May not be always true

Read about what Tim cook has to say here

Rather than than calling for a boycott of Chinese goods, maybe we should work on our skills. We have this false notion that our engineers, cricketers, soldiers, pilots etc are way superior to everyone else. If we were that good, neither would China be a manufacturing powerhouse nor would they have encroached into our country and stayed put for weeks on end.

We also need to be sensible while choosing products/service providers. For example, the contract to STEC for a rapid transit system because they were the lowest bidders. Totally fair, any contract should go to the lowest bidder. Likewise, one has to choose the product that meets his/her requirements the most at the most competent price rather than letting emotions take over.

[KPR]

On a lighter vein, the way things are unfolding I'm sure by now memes would've started to come on not only boycott Chinese goods but Chinese foods too. No. I can't give up Noodles, Manchurians and Fried rice. They're awesome and break the montony of Indian Dal, Subzis.

[lazy]

This thread is turning out exactly as one would have guessed.

People taking the meaning of boycott china to an extreme to make it sound ridiculous; and thus justify their own continued purchases or their own opinion on this subject.

It is already established that electronic components, automobile components/parts, home appliance components etc are almost 100% china sourced - so why harping on this point ??

Government cannot ban Chinese products because we are signatories to WTO - so stop passing the buck to government too.

The approach is to use this criteria - see turbo's message - quoting an extract below. Patronize the Indian brand even if it uses Chinese components, or if no Indian brands, then non-Chinese.

Yes, continuing to buy Chinese products is indeed unpatriotic, I cannot fathom how this is being understood otherwise by esteemed members. Almost every chinese company is indirectly state owned - which implies - the profits we give them, pays for the bullets that kill Indians.

Now, you want to not see this fact, fine, but then don't say its okay.

This is not political stance, this is about supporting local industry.

Do see this tweet, probably will open some eyes - https://twitter.com/nisheethsharan/s...06337199726593

cheers
lazy

Originally Posted by turbo

I have qualified things into 4 categories

1: Indian company owned things manufactured things in India
2: Indian Company owned things not manufactured in India
3: Foreign company owned things manufactured in India
4: Foreign company owned things manufactured overseas.

My preference order is 1>2>3>4. But only where the alternatives exist.

[AZT]

Since we are on the topic

China’s Great Wall Motor commits to $1 billion investment in Maharashtra

China’s largest sport utility vehicle (SUV) manufacturer Great Wall Motor Company Ltd., which recently acquired General Motors’ car manufacturing plant at Talegaon, near Pune, has signed an MoU with the Maharashtra government reaffirming its commitment to invest $1 billion in phases.
“The MoU officially announced the investment in the state-of-the-art automotive manufacturing facility in Talegaon, Maharashtra. The plant will be equipped with latest world-class technology and along with the R&D centre in Bengaluru will generate employment for over 3,000 people in phased manner,” GWM said in a statement.

Source: https://www.thehindu.com/business/ch...le31845498.ece