[Gansan]

I would say youth from certain states will not apply for that short service which will pay 30-40k. They will not at all be attracted. In due course the services will be skewed towards certain states.

[locusjag]

The armed forces do not exist so that employment can be provided to people. There is a sense of false entitlement coming across in many posts that our unemployed youth deserve jobs in the armed forces.

I'm merely taking a step back and looking at the larger picture; the automation juggernaut has been rolling for quite some time now. Jobless economic growth is increasing. Wealth has begun to be concentrated with those who are part of isolated industries (software, hardware, devices etc.). For instance, please visualize how many workers across assorted industries are out of jobs because of a single Samsung smartphone, which is a device with several Artificial Narrow Intelligence programs packed into it - a single smartphone replaces hundreds of real world devices (watch, stopwatch, world clock, mirror, digital camera, calendar, personal diaries, phone books, encyclopedias, board games ....it's a long list). All the revenues for the in-phone digital versions of those utilities goes to programmers, salespersons, suppliers, logistics professionals and owners of Samsung. My daughter had installed and played probably a hundred digital versions of board games during the pandemic; just think of how many board games I would've otherwise purchased from a shop, if not for the smartphone.

And I'll say nothing of driverless vehicles for the moment. Driving jobs are the jobs of last resort in most economies and even those are getting taken away slowly...

AI's potency is only going to increase, which is why Musk and Hawking have warned for the need for Universal Basic Income (UBI). All of our jobs are going to go away - not just jobs in the army. Let's face it.

Now globally, armed forces have also begun automation of their forces. Unmanned/reduced manpower ops holds the key as a disruptor of battlefields. Long before the Ukraine issue, you had the Armenian-Azerbaijanian conflict in which drones won the war for the side which came prepared with them. More than a decade ago, Obama had signed off on scores of drone hits on terrorists in the Pak/Afghan region.

Meanwhile arms expos and certain battlefields (e.g., Ladakh) have already seen robot soldiers in action.

For me - the reality is clear. India's armed forces have a larger mandate to safeguard our nation from the threats we face from without. They will thankfully do whatever it takes to achieve that, regardless of whatever opinions are written here.

The larger worry for me is that the future is already here. It's just unevenly distributed. It's the aspiring armed forces recruits whose employment is uncertain today. It'll certainly be you and I tomorrow. I can certainly express my empathy with them...but I would rather begin asking our lawmakers for a Universal Basic Income for those who've been deprived of employment by the automation juggernaut.

[Blackwing]

IMHO as for dilemma of after 4 years scenario the scheme is a choice, completely voluntary, normal military recruitments have not been abolished yet.
Take for eg., a person looking for odd jobs like driver, office boy etc., or someone having a small family shop. Candidates like them will be easily willing to postpone their career by 4 years, to earn 20-24 Lakhs mostly tax free.
So why not give them a chance to serve their country.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

FYI Short Service Commission attracts Training and Employment as Officers in Army.
Under short service commission, the Army allows 10-year service with an option of a 4-year extension.

Yes, but there is a huge difference in the tenure of Short Service Commission and this. IF the logic is that a younger workforce is more risk taking, and hence more aggressive and technically proficient, and will also reduce the pension costs, then the same logic could be used for officers too. Why have them for 10 years, when the 4 years of Agnipath is sufficient?

[Gansan]

What kind of dedication to service will be there with a four year tenure? The tendency will be more to somehow pass the four years without getting into any trouble, "adjust" and get out with the severance benefits. Remember, the candidate has to put his life in the line, just like an officer or someone in permanent service, for a pittance when compared to them. Won't the quality of the soldier be compromised?

Generally those who join the services will intend to make a career out of it.

[MT_Hyderabad]

As I am addicted to cars, my mind is forcing me to think about this scheme in terms of automobiles.

It is basically a car lease program. You get a brand new car for a meager amount per month. After the contract is over, the car is free for its next buyer. No questions asked.
Unfortunately the car in this case is the youth. Absolute youth! in its prime.

My management knowledge is requesting me to oppose this scheme strongly.

For being a good soldier, like a good employee, you need Purpose, Mastery and Autonomy. All these elements are missing in this scheme. You do not have a strong purpose, you will join this scheme for its pure transactional value.

You will not develop any mastery, 4 years of unskilled work exposure is only expected, as these youth will not be exposed to high skill or technically advanced equipment. Most of them will leave and can be easily trapped by enemy forces.
And let's forget about autonomy. This is army!

My thumbs down to this youth devouring scheme.

[Amrik Singh]

Though there are many memes on the WhatsApp making rounds, this one seems to reflect the truth

Can this be denied ?

[Sebring]

The four year training is not for forward posts. I see this mostly like the mandatory services in the army (when you look at countries like Singapore). Initiative is 'Desh Bhakti'. And this is very important for today's youth who are mindlessly chasing money

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Though there are many memes on the WhatsApp making rounds, this one seems to reflect the truth

[deathwalkr]

Whatever be the reasons, I just can't seem to find it easy to justify the arson, looting and rioting that's been going on for the past few days.

[Javelin]

Few Points

# Military Officer Training cost is very high. 4 year tenure does not make any economical sense.

# After 4 years class 12 equivalent diploma, not a degree as many have pointed out.

# 4 years too less to reap benefits for the country. After the initial training, most of the training, is in job training. The more time a soldier spends with his weapon or equipment, better will he employ it when the opportunity presents itself.

# Most of the Jawan/Airman/Seaman cadre comes from, villages/towns. Even though the salary is not that great wrt the current economic situation. The main motivation to join forces for them is to start supporting family at a very young age. A permanent government job, still holds a lot of water in villages and small towns. Its a matter of pride. Hence, the protest.

# If anyone from small town is given a choice to receive few lakhs at 21-23 years of age or a stable job for a long time. What will he choose? You know the answer.

# Arson and violent protests are totally unjustified and unbecoming for the so called defence aspirants.

[warrioraks]

I do understand some of the concerns raised in the media but don’t understand all the mayhem and rioting. The posts above have been very insightful to a person who does not come from army background but I still have some questions:

1. This enrolment is complete voluntary, so how does it matter what career path an agniveer will have after 4 years? If people feel it will destroy their future job opportunities, just don’t bother applying.
2. On the militarisation of society. I always thought people from armed forces background are highly disciplined and sought after when it comes to private sector jobs. In fact in a sea of nuisance creators, I feel ex-armed forces citizens bring in some discipline even in civil life. Also India as a country has inadequate law enforcement. Wouldn’t agniveers who come out of army after four years of training and discipline be perfect recruitment ground for our state police forces?


As I said before, these are the thoughts of a layman who hasn’t seen army life at all. So maybe there are intricacies which are difficult to grasp and the questions above sound naive.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by Javelin

Few Points

# Military Officer Training cost is very high. 4 year tenure does not make any economical sense.

# After 4 years class 12 equivalent diploma, not a degree as many have pointed out.

# 4 years too less to reap benefits for the country. After the initial training, most of the training, is in job training. The more time a soldier spends with his weapon or equipment, better will he employ it when the opportunity presents itself.

# Most of the Jawan/Airman/Seaman cadre comes from, villages/towns. Even though the salary is not that great wrt the current economic situation. The main motivation to join forces for them is to start supporting family at a very young age. A permanent government job, still holds a lot of water in villages and small towns. Its a matter of pride. Hence, the protest.

# If anyone from small town is given a choice to receive few lakhs at 21-23 years of age or a stable job for a long time. What will he choose? You know the answer.

# Arson and violent protests are totally unjustified and unbecoming for the so called defence aspirants.

1.) Yep. Training officers is very costly. That is why this Agniveer scheme is for OR (other ranks) only.

2.) They can get a degree from NIOS provided they enroll concurrently.

3.) Most of the advanced countries with much more lethal militaries than India have similar hiring processes for lower ranks. The cream of the crop (top 25%) is going to be retained so we will get the best of both worlds. Anyways, whether you have a 3 years or 12 years of experience is not going to matter much when a barrage of SSM falls down on you courtesy the PLA Rocket Force. A similar rocket force for India will cost around Rs 2Lakh Crore initially. We intend to raise such a unit and do many more things using the money saved by this Agnipath scheme.

4.) You have confused the Armed Forces with MGNREGA. In the words of late CDS, Gen. Bipin Rawat,

"Army is not a job generating scheme"

. Apologies for the Hindi video, I tried to find a version with English subtitles but couldn't. For members who don't know Hindi, the late general basically reiterated that the people who treat the Armed Forces as a source of employment ought to change their mindset.

BTW, the salary is great for a 12th pass kid with no other experience. Mechanical Engineering/Civil Engineering freshers make less.

5.) Anyone who chooses to forego a degree and 12-13L rupees at 21 year of age is foolish beyond my wildest dreams. It is not like they are being drafted. They can reject the Armed Forces if its not upto their tastes. This is simply ridiculous.

[JoshMachine]

On the face of it, the Agnipath scheme's objectives & intentions seem benevolent:-

* restructuring the defence budget (% of GDP, absolute pension/salary costs etc.)

* inducting more youth into the defence forces

* building a huge pool of skilled personnel. At current estimates, if approx. 50,000 are recruited every year for the next 4 years (translating to 200,000), and if only 25% move into permanent rolls (current T&C) later, then you have a huge set of 75% i.e. 150,000 trained and semi/highly skilled recruits available for active duty across India. And with a good ethos of regimental training included. And this pool gets generated every year once it is rolling. Can be a good source of talent for the states & industries alike.

* providing partial relief to the joblessness, prevalent post covid.

...and some more.

For folks falling into the intended target segment, this scheme does make financial sense. So the impact for them is claimed to be positive.

However, like any other transformative pan-nation policy, the success of this scheme will mostly lie in how the benefits will accrue where it is intended - will it help in restructuring the defence budget in few years, will these recruits gel well with the existing cadre, and finally, will the scheme pave the way to more career options for the skilled & trained 150,000-odd set of ex-servicemen?

And like any other transformation programme, this too will require "change management" of the highest efficiency. A trusted, senior set of defence personnel to oversee the initial few seasons is a must.

Talks about militarization of the civil society (after 4 yrs) and widespread youth unrest/gun-toting youth roaming around etc. are abound, but surely we can rely on the Indian Armed Forces institution to pre-empt & address that behavior.

Attached herewith is the full, 32-page document of the scheme, covering all the details.

Agnipath booklet_mygov_.pdf

And the entire story explained in charts, here. A good read to understand the holistic picture.

[deathwalkr]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

I do understand some of the concerns raised in the media but don’t understand all the mayhem and rioting. The posts above have been very insightful to a person who does not come from army background but I still have some questions:

I assume this is the real concern:

https://www.onmanorama.com/career-an...-medicals.html

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

3.) The Indian Armed Forces are incapable of tackling challenges preemptively as they demonstrated quite ably in Feb 2019 and May 2020 (and in Kargil and Op Parakram before). The upper echelon of the Armed Forces is not much different from the moribund bureaucrats who head other GoI departments in the sense that they are afraid of any change. This massive shakeup will hopefully be accompanied by rationalisation at the top too. This sort of thing can only be done by a political leadership with the requisite mandate.

The same armed forces are hailed by all top military organisations around the world including the Israel army. The Indian Armed forces are one of the most professional and tactical forces of the world. Talking about tackling challenges preemptively, India has always believed in not engaging in action first and has always been prepared and given the other side a solid reply. Had they been incompetent, you would not be having the privilege to write this as you and me would be under control of some neighbours.

Talking about the top management being corrupt, this isn't your typically babu office. My father is a two star Air Vice Marshal of the Indian Air Force (a fighter pilot), never in my 21 years of life have I seen him relaxing and chilling for more than a couple of days a year. He is mostly on calls even on leaves. Everytime he goes up in the air, he stares at death in the eye. And so is the case with many other bravehearts as well. The issue of corruption comes from the civilian posts which are interlinked with the armed forces, these people are the ones who are lazy and just won't pass anything until they can scrounge out something from it. No offence to anyone. Thanks.



Lowflyer