[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by Oxy

As far as I know, there is a process in place for online transfer of PF, provided both your employers (current and previous ones) have registered for it. That can be verified here:

http://www.epfindia.com/Employee_OTCP.html

However, if you wish to withdraw, your physical presence is required.

I suggest you get it transferred. The PF is supposed to be your retirement corpus. It really does not make any sense to withdraw the money unless you really need it immediately.

Thanks for your reply, Oxy.
I believe when you meant transferring the funds, you were referring to the case where I take up employment with a new employer in India. However, in my case I have emigrated and don't foresee myself working in India in the near future, which is why I would like to withdraw and possibly invest elsewhere/pay off my home loan.

Based on your reply, it does appear that it wouldn't be possible to withdraw without submitting my application in person.

[pankaj_sachdeva]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

Based on your reply, it does appear that it wouldn't be possible to withdraw without submitting my application in person.

I am not sure, why physical presence is required. I recently couriered the PF withdrawal forms (form 19 & form 10c) to my previous organization's HR department in Gujrat while my base is in Pune.

In fact idea of sending the forms was suggested by the previous organization's HR only. They mentioned that they will verify the forms and submit to EPFO department for withdrawal.

May be checking with previous employer's HR will help !!

[DCEite]

Suppose a person has 24000 lumpsum to invest in PPF.

Is it advisable to invest every month (before 5th ) in amounts of 2000 per month for next 12 months or does it make to sense the complete amount in one go ?

[aditya101]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Suppose a person has 24000 lumpsum to invest in PPF.

Is it advisable to invest every month (before 5th ) in amounts of 2000 per month for next 12 months or does it make to sense the complete amount in one go ?

For safe, fixed return intruments, lump sum investment will yield better returns.

SIPs are recommended for Equity MFs for 'managing' NAV fluctuation.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Oxy

Did quite a bit of research yesterday to see where the Pension Fund amount vanishes when we initiate a PF transfer.

A little background on the issue:

If you view your e-passbook on the EPFO website, you can see three components - Employee contribution, Employer contribution and Pension Fund. Every month, Rs.541 is diverted to the pension fund from the Employer contribution (unless your salary is Rs.6500 or less). This pension fund component does not gain any interest.

When you initiate a transfer of this PF, the Employee and Employer contributions are correctly reflected in the passbook of the new account, but the Pension Fund shows nil.

What I have gathered so far:

When you transfer your earlier PF, the date since you have been a PF member is updated, based on the Date of Joining the previous organization you fill in your transfer form, but the pension fund money itself is not transferred.

Now if you are a PF member for 9 and a half years or less, you have an option to fill the form 10C and withdraw your pension fund, but you won't get the entire amount. The amount of pension fund you get depends on when you withdraw it as per Table D (Google EPS Table D). This partial amount will then come directly to your bank account after approval.

However, if you have been contributing to your PF since 10 years or more (anything above 9 and a half years is rounded off to 10 years), then your pension fund will be used to give you a monthly pension of Rs.3250 when you retire at the age of 58 years. There's an option to receive this monthly pension from the age of 50 as well, but the amount will be lesser.

What will a pension of Rs.3250 mean 20 plus years from now?

And as I understand, you don't have a choice but to put up with this nonsense.

I had raised a grievance for this issue on the EPF portal, got an SMS from them today that the matter is resolved.

Logged in to find the status "No Action Required". The explanation given is this:

During transfer no physical fund is transferred in respect of EPS. Also no interest accrue in EPS Fund . EPS details include service details and wages during previous 12 months period which in term determine the quantum of benefit. Once the PF is transferred along with the same service details and wages during previous 12 months period detail is transferred automatically for determining the quantum of benefit in case of cessation of membership from EPS Fund.

Can anyone help me understand this?

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by Oxy

I had raised a grievance for this issue on the EPF portal, got an SMS from them today that the matter is resolved.

Logged in to find the status "No Action Required". The explanation given is this:
Can anyone help me understand this?

I had to read it three or four times to guess what he is saying. Typical government parlance, mostly used by officers and staff who joined service in reserved quota.

I guess he is trying to say that during transfers, EPS is not transferred, but only service details like salary details for past 12 months. So if you were to retire soon after the transfer, they'll calculate the pension based on your average pay for the past 12 months. If your retirement is far off, they will calculate the pension based on your PF deductions at that point of time.

Actually almost all the people working in IT industry or even a clerk or LDC in State Government would have a salary that is way above the max limit in the EPS. Therefore average pay for preceding 12 months does not make sense in such cases.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

I had to read it three or four times to guess what he is saying. Typical government parlance, mostly used by officers and staff who joined service in reserved quota.

I guess he is trying to say that during transfers, EPS is not transferred, but only service details like salary details for past 12 months. So if you were to retire soon after the transfer, they'll calculate the pension based on your average pay for the past 12 months. If your retirement is far off, they will calculate the pension based on your PF deductions at that point of time.

Actually almost all the people working in IT industry or even a clerk or LDC in State Government would have a salary that is way above the max limit in the EPS. Therefore average pay for preceding 12 months does not make sense in such cases.

Thanks very much, really helped.

But this is such a nonsense. You cannot access your pension fund until retirement. And this pension fund does not gain any interest as well. It will make so much sense if we are allowed to withdraw it now.

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

There is an excellent analysis on net, probably from Jago Investor.

There they have shown that what we get is not even interest part of what we contribute. Forget the principal. Not even the interest part of it. If there is a way to stop contributing to this damn scheme, i would do it right now.

If you are referring to the EPS scheme, then the EPS provides for pension to the spouse and children in case of death of the member.

A scheme that covers risk cannot be compared to a scheme that only takes into account contribution accumulated over the years.

[supremeBaleno]

There was a news-item yesterday about an EPFO ruling / clarification that organisations can if they choose to, restrict their PF contribution to a max of Rs6500 per month (and not go as high as 12% of basic as it is now).

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

There was a news-item yesterday about an EPFO ruling / clarification that organisations can if they choose to, restrict their PF contribution to a max of Rs6500 per month (and not go as high as 12% of basic as it is now).

Even if Rs.6500 qualifies as 12% of basic, then the basic salary would be nearly Rs.60,000 a month. There are not many people earning in that range.

[supremeBaleno]

Depends on how the organisation structures the remuneration. I know many IT companies that deliberately keep a low basic pay (bundling most of the slary instead into Flexi or other allowances) to reduce their outgo on PF contribution. Our organisation does the opposite - has half the salary as Basic, with the remaining half including other allowances. So, this 'could' affect us, but I doubt our orgn would go this route.

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

There was a news-item yesterday about an EPFO ruling / clarification that organisations can if they choose to, restrict their PF contribution to a max of Rs6500 per month (and not go as high as 12% of basic as it is now).

The circular actually states that the minimum statutory basic is 6500/- , so employers can limit their contribution to 12% of 6500= 780/-.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

There was a news-item yesterday about an EPFO ruling / clarification that organisations can if they choose to, restrict their PF contribution to a max of Rs6500 per month (and not go as high as 12% of basic as it is now).

PF contribution is mandatory for employees with Basic+DA below 6500/- per month. Companies may at their discretion, contribute PF for Basic+DA over and above Rs.6500/- per month.
There is no ruling/ clarifications about PF contribution of Rs.6500/- per month AFAIK. There was talk of increasing the max limit of Basic for PF contribution to Rs.15000/- per month from the current 6500/-

[sdp1975]

Has anyone received their UAN number from their employer ?

I checked on http://uanmembers.epfoservices.in/check_uan_status.php and it says that my UAN has been allotted and I should contact my employer for it.

[penpusher]

Originally Posted by sdp1975

Has anyone received their UAN number from their employer ?

I checked on http://uanmembers.epfoservices.in/check_uan_status.php and it says that my UAN has been allotted and I should contact my employer for it.

EPFO has generated UAN for all employees who have contributed for period 01.01.14 to 30.06.14. The employer can download the same from employer portal on EPFO website and distribute it to their employees. Thereafter, the employer is to collect copies of KYC documents such as AADHAR/NPR/PAN/S.B. account of employees and upload it on EPFO website. This will be in permanent record with EPFO, as & when employee changes jobs, he can provide his UAN to new employer so as to link old PF account. More information here:http://www.epfindia.gov.in/UAN_Services.html