HSBC Bank threat to blacklist me and issue non-baliable warrant

iraghava · 10th February 2009, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

Even in case of cheque bouncing banks do nothing. Last week I had a case where a cheque given by vendor company bounced twice, still HDFC bank says they can't do anything. They say it is up to me to sue and recover the money. And here I was thinking cheque bouncing was a serious offence.

The bank is right. The onus of recovering the payment is between you & your vendor, the bank has no role in it except processing the instrument for payment when presented to the bank.

mmmjgm · 10th February 2009, 12:41

Hey B&T,

Don't worry, its just a collector doing a bad job, a very bad one at that. There is no way any one can arrest you with out you signing a statement, Section 138 of the NI act has a procedure where one has to be served a notice by 1) Lawyer of the lender, 2) Court summons have to be received by you.

There is no way in hell that any one can come and arrest you.

These are threaten tactics by banks, believe you me, what you are facing is very mild in comparision to what others have faced.

Last but not the least, there is no way that any one can disturb you. Also please tell the caller next time that there is a section in the Indian Penal Code which states
"inducing undue pressure/coersion to retrieve or to compel someone with the fear of threat"

The above if committed by a person/entity is a crime as well. Ask the caller/collector to show documentary evidence, there's not a shred of a notice in this case.

Blacklisting ? !!! How can you be blacklisted if you have not been the recipient of any of HSBC's loans and defaulted till the sixth bucket ? (90/180 days past due) . There is a CIBIL list of information, there is no such blacklist, the CIBIL database is a the records of all borrowers and their repayment history, its common for all individual & corporate borrowers in India.

Relax, and do not worry.

cheers
M M

cyclops · 10th February 2009, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

Even in case of cheque bouncing banks do nothing. Last week I had a case where a cheque given by vendor company bounced twice, still HDFC bank says they can't do anything. They say it is up to me to sue and recover the money. And here I was thinking cheque bouncing was a serious offence.

While this HSBC woman thinks she can issue non-bailable warrants and send police to arrest a guy who gave mere reference to a loan. Total nonsense.

What can a bank do if a cheque issued by your vendor bounces? Its upto you to file a case against him!

EDIT: iraghava already replied this one..

Bass&Trouble · 10th February 2009, 12:43

Thanks for all the reassurance, guys. Its really disturbing to wake up one day and get spoken to like this. After living a debt free lifetime.

Let me see if they send a notice.

wrt Section 138 - There may be bounced cheques. Issued by the defaulter. Not by me. Weird that I should be implicated.

Samurai · 10th February 2009, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraghava

The bank is right. The onus of recovering the payment is between you & your vendor, the bank has no role in it except processing the instrument for payment when presented to the bank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclops

What can a bank do if a cheque issued by your vendor bounces? Its upto you to file a case against him!

I thought it was a criminal offense, now I realise it is not. It is not worth a civil case, I may end up paying more to the lawyer than the cheque is worth.

vnabhi · 10th February 2009, 12:47

B&T--as others have already pointed out, if you are not the guarantor/ surety, you have no reason to fear. You cannot be victimized for the bank's seemingly erratic policy of interpreting a reference as a surety!
But I don't think the cops will entertain an F.I.R. from either party that easily, unless you have an cop friend, or without a bribe. Best thing is to keep quiet, and react only if you get a notice.
Sticking a notice on a wall when the recipient is not available is legally valid. But don't be alarmed--they are pulling a fast one on you.

sandeepmdas · 10th February 2009, 12:52

Hey BT,

Record everything what she says; post a part of it in Youtube or somewhere, and pass her the link address when she calls you again.

Electronic counter measure...

Who knows, may be she is among those who have been pink-slipped and therefore, and looking for creating maximum damage to her employer.

On serious note, it would be a wise idea if you can get in touch with the original defaulter. Let us see what his position is, regarding this matter.

aburagohain · 10th February 2009, 12:53

Is it possible for you go ahead and file an FIR yourself against the harassment, your missing friend and his defaulting ways, at least you are safe bringing it up first hand. I am no good when it comes to legalities, just suggesting one more way to handle the situation probably.

Next time the woman calls up, ask her to keep ready for the police instead.

himanshugoswami · 10th February 2009, 12:54

samurai, bouncing of a cheque isa criminal AND a civil offence.

ironically, the civil remedy is far more effective in this case than the criminal remedy (section 138 proceedings).

if the cheque was issued in lieu of a contractual oligation (which seems to be the case in your case), you can file a summary suit under Order 37 CPC within 1 month of the bouncing of the cheque. of course, if the cheque is within validity, then you simply have to re-present it to start the 1 month period again.

hemanthisgreat · 10th February 2009, 12:54

I you want to be sure, just call or visit the banking ombudsman with your query. here is the address I got off the internet.

Name & Address of Banking Ombudsman
C/o. Reserve Bank of India
Garment House
Ground Floor
Dr.Annie Besant Road
Worli
MUMBAI 400018
Tel. No.:4924607/4960893
Fax. No.:022-4960912

neerajdan · 10th February 2009, 13:07

May be a really silly question, but what are the ways/ how can we record telephonic conversations? Do you need a special software on your mobile?

madan80 · 10th February 2009, 13:13

if you try getting in touch with your friend wouldnt that then deny you the ability to say that you dont know where the person is now?

Lalvaz · 10th February 2009, 13:17

The lady seems off her rockers. As long as you have not signed any legal documents as a guarantor, you should be absolutely fine. Being a reference does not make you liable to pay the loan on behalf of your friend. Please dont worry about being arrested. Lets wait for the legal notice to come from the bank before deciding next steps. It is a wise decision to record the call and the threats. Will come in handy if you would like to sue them for wrongful harassment.

Another thing that this incident throws up is the need to be careful whom you stand guarantee for. Very often, we do not realize that there is a legal liability incase we stand guarantee for someone. These unfortunate incidents serve to highlight that.
You might also want to try and contact your friend. You might be able to trace him on FB, Orkut, LinkedIn etc... if not through common friends. He ought to deal with his problems head on rather than leave you in the lurch.

bblost · 10th February 2009, 13:19

With call centre folks. adopt a simple strategy.
Talk to them like you would talk to a child.
Ask them to repeat everything they say a couple of times.
Spell out each name.

be your irritating best.

Since they can do you no harm except spoil your mood, reverse it.
Spoil their mood and have some fun.

Srini76 · 10th February 2009, 13:23

Hi B&T

I have checked with a senior manager of HSBC who incidentally happens to be a close friend.His advice is as follows

a) Ignore it if its ok with you - no issues at all.

b) Send a communication to the bank even by mail is ok and mark a copy to "hsbccreditmanagementunit@hsbc.com" at the end of the mail just put in cc to Banking ombudsman.
c) Ensure your mail has a delivery and/or a read receipt once you have the receipt back, copy paste both and send it to the ombudsman as listed on "http://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=24"

You have absolutely nothing to worry dude.

Srinivas

Ps. Mods, certain links and mail id's have been provided in this post to also enable all other members make note if need be. if this is not acceptable please delete accordingly.

10th February 2009, 12:41	#17
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BOM, PNQ, DXB Posts: 398 Thanked: 30 Times	Hey B&T, Don't worry, its just a collector doing a bad job, a very bad one at that. There is no way any one can arrest you with out you signing a statement, Section 138 of the NI act has a procedure where one has to be served a notice by 1) Lawyer of the lender, 2) Court summons have to be received by you. There is no way in hell that any one can come and arrest you. These are threaten tactics by banks, believe you me, what you are facing is very mild in comparision to what others have faced. Last but not the least, there is no way that any one can disturb you. Also please tell the caller next time that there is a section in the Indian Penal Code which states "inducing undue pressure/coersion to retrieve or to compel someone with the fear of threat" The above if committed by a person/entity is a crime as well. Ask the caller/collector to show documentary evidence, there's not a shred of a notice in this case. Blacklisting ? !!! How can you be blacklisted if you have not been the recipient of any of HSBC's loans and defaulted till the sixth bucket ? (90/180 days past due) . There is a CIBIL list of information, there is no such blacklist, the CIBIL database is a the records of all borrowers and their repayment history, its common for all individual & corporate borrowers in India. Relax, and do not worry. cheers M M Last edited by mmmjgm : 10th February 2009 at 12:44.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:43	#19
Bass&Trouble Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 2,754 Thanked: 124 Times	Thanks for all the reassurance, guys. Its really disturbing to wake up one day and get spoken to like this. After living a debt free lifetime. Let me see if they send a notice. wrt Section 138 - There may be bounced cheques. Issued by the defaulter. Not by me. Weird that I should be implicated.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:47	#21
vnabhi Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: DC -> DC Posts: 5,958 Thanked: 2,393 Times View My Garage	B&T--as others have already pointed out, if you are not the guarantor/ surety, you have no reason to fear. You cannot be victimized for the bank's seemingly erratic policy of interpreting a reference as a surety! But I don't think the cops will entertain an F.I.R. from either party that easily, unless you have an cop friend, or without a bribe. Best thing is to keep quiet, and react only if you get a notice. Sticking a notice on a wall when the recipient is not available is legally valid. But don't be alarmed--they are pulling a fast one on you. Last edited by vnabhi : 10th February 2009 at 12:49.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:52	#22
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,536 Thanked: 2,489 Times	Hey BT, Record everything what she says; post a part of it in Youtube or somewhere, and pass her the link address when she calls you again. Electronic counter measure... Who knows, may be she is among those who have been pink-slipped and therefore, and looking for creating maximum damage to her employer. On serious note, it would be a wise idea if you can get in touch with the original defaulter. Let us see what his position is, regarding this matter.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:53	#23
aburagohain BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 153 Thanked: 2 Times	Is it possible for you go ahead and file an FIR yourself against the harassment, your missing friend and his defaulting ways, at least you are safe bringing it up first hand. I am no good when it comes to legalities, just suggesting one more way to handle the situation probably. Next time the woman calls up, ask her to keep ready for the police instead.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:54	#24
himanshugoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: !!!! Posts: 2,303 Thanked: 2,619 Times	samurai, bouncing of a cheque isa criminal AND a civil offence. ironically, the civil remedy is far more effective in this case than the criminal remedy (section 138 proceedings). if the cheque was issued in lieu of a contractual oligation (which seems to be the case in your case), you can file a summary suit under Order 37 CPC within 1 month of the bouncing of the cheque. of course, if the cheque is within validity, then you simply have to re-present it to start the 1 month period again.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 12:54	#25
hemanthisgreat BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 594 Thanked: 50 Times View My Garage	I you want to be sure, just call or visit the banking ombudsman with your query. here is the address I got off the internet. Name & Address of Banking Ombudsman C/o. Reserve Bank of India Garment House Ground Floor Dr.Annie Besant Road Worli MUMBAI 400018 Tel. No.:4924607/4960893 Fax. No.:022-4960912
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 13:07	#26
neerajdan BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 71 Thanked: 49 Times	May be a really silly question, but what are the ways/ how can we record telephonic conversations? Do you need a special software on your mobile?
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 13:13	#27
madan80 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,360 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	if you try getting in touch with your friend wouldnt that then deny you the ability to say that you dont know where the person is now?
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 13:17	#28
Lalvaz Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,412 Thanked: 2,177 Times	The lady seems off her rockers. As long as you have not signed any legal documents as a guarantor, you should be absolutely fine. Being a reference does not make you liable to pay the loan on behalf of your friend. Please dont worry about being arrested. Lets wait for the legal notice to come from the bank before deciding next steps. It is a wise decision to record the call and the threats. Will come in handy if you would like to sue them for wrongful harassment. Another thing that this incident throws up is the need to be careful whom you stand guarantee for. Very often, we do not realize that there is a legal liability incase we stand guarantee for someone. These unfortunate incidents serve to highlight that. You might also want to try and contact your friend. You might be able to trace him on FB, Orkut, LinkedIn etc... if not through common friends. He ought to deal with his problems head on rather than leave you in the lurch.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 13:19	#29
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,000 Thanked: 15,305 Times View My Garage	With call centre folks. adopt a simple strategy. Talk to them like you would talk to a child. Ask them to repeat everything they say a couple of times. Spell out each name. be your irritating best. Since they can do you no harm except spoil your mood, reverse it. Spoil their mood and have some fun.
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 13:23	#30
Srini76 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 138 Thanked: 106 Times View My Garage	Hi B&T I have checked with a senior manager of HSBC who incidentally happens to be a close friend.His advice is as follows a) Ignore it if its ok with you - no issues at all. b) Send a communication to the bank even by mail is ok and mark a copy to "hsbccreditmanagementunit@hsbc.com" at the end of the mail just put in cc to Banking ombudsman. c) Ensure your mail has a delivery and/or a read receipt once you have the receipt back, copy paste both and send it to the ombudsman as listed on "http://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/FAQView.aspx?Id=24" You have absolutely nothing to worry dude. Srinivas Ps. Mods, certain links and mail id's have been provided in this post to also enable all other members make note if need be. if this is not acceptable please delete accordingly.
	() Thanks