[m8002?]

Originally Posted by poloman

Immigration is good if that is balanced. New wave migrants are completely moving out selling their lands and assets in India. They are using this money to buy houses in places like Canada. This is one reason cited for real estate boom in Canada. No scope of inward remittances either once entire families move out.
Some communities will be wiped out in decades if this continue. The Christian population in middle and south Kerala are examples. There are hardly any people left in some belts. Ghost towns are being popped up. Church is now advising moderation. This has to be tackled at community level.

If the emigrating people are selling their land and houses, why should there be ghost towns?

My understanding is that most have migrated but dont want to let go of the ancestral property. The longer they delay this, the messier it gets when the old parents living there pass away and inheritence/lineage issues crop up.

[dragracer567]

An interesting observation. As early as a decade ago, most Indians living in the Gulf used to be blue-collar workers from South India - they constituted the bulk of the labor class in the Gulf with smaller groups of Indian professionals. However, the blue-collar workers have now been almost completely replaced with Bangladeshi & Pakistanis while most of the Indians left are solely technicians, professionals or businessmen. There are very few South Indians available to work as laborers even within South India while it is more desirable for North Indian workers to migrate to other states than to the Gulf for work - for example with a daily wage of 800 rs in Kerala, his monthly income would be pretty much the same as in the Gulf (where wages has stagnated for almost 10-15 years now) while he can afford to have his family with him, send his kids to government school and have access to healthcare for his family. How times change!

[fuzzydealhunter]

Originally Posted by m8002?

If the emigrating people are selling their land and houses, why should there be ghost towns?

My understanding is that most have migrated but dont want to let go of the ancestral property. The longer they delay this, the messier it gets when the old parents living there pass away and inheritence/lineage issues crop up.

100% agree! Indians have a propensity to move to other countries all while holding on to their assets in India for sentimental reason. This is something that causes so many issues but we are human and dont always make the logical moves. Compared to us its other nationalities such as Chinese that tend to sell everything in their primary country and move with everything.

I promise you its not Indian money that is driving the Canadian real estate market

[voldemort]

Originally Posted by car_guy1998

Did anyone return to India after completing their Masters in the USA or any other country? Asking because I have seen a few people returning to India as soon as they complete their Masters and few people stayed back after Masters with the intention of working in abroad.

Me. I studied in America. Not in Ivy league or anything, but at a good university nevertheless. Got an MS in Computer Science.

I returned back home to Cochin (my hometown) immediately after graduation, and is happily employed as a software engineer here. Although I must add, I probably would have got the job I got even if I had never gone to America .

While my parents are very supportive of my decision, I did have some shallow minded relatives ask me why I returned, and that borderline annoyed me. (Here in Kerala the general trend is to emigrate.)

And just to make it clear — I did love every moment of the nearly 3 years I lived in America. Wonderful friendly people. Got the opportunity to learn and work with a lot of highly skilled people and professors. I miss some of that.

(Of course, everybody's mileage would vary; I came back, and things turned out alright for me; it may or may not for you).

[humyum]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Have you checked out the ExpatForum? If you haven't, I would recommend doing that. Link: https://www.expatforum.com/tags/netherlands/

Do reach out to your contacts via LinkedIn. 8/10 may not reply but don't let that discourage you.

Overseas education/work/visa Agencies are notorious for overselling and being opaque. Please do proper research before choosing one.

You seem to have a lot on your plate (wedding, job search, new country, saving for medical treatment etc.) and it can be overwhelming. So good luck and all the best!

Thank you. I will check it out. I have been applying through LinkedIn and had given a couple of interviews too, but nothing worked out as of yet.

Yes, lots on the plate and hoping to navigate around this as I believe with 2 of us earning, we can save quite a bit of a corpus for mom in a short time, cancer is a relentless disease.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You might want to look into this some more. It depends on the job you hold whether you are eligible or not and to what extend. Your employer needs to arrange the actual taxation for you.

If you are eligible, there is a reduction of 30% of your taxable income for a certain period. I believe this period is being shortened in the next year or so.

Jeroen

Thank you for the revert. Yes, I am from the IT field and eligible for it. Since you have been that side for long, would you have contacts that side I could maybe approach. I have 8 years of Product Management experience with lots of success stories with an education from UK for my MBA and Engineering ( if that matters at this poin in my career)

[Imran.Syed]

Staying true to my decision and after thinking it over a million times, I have booked my one way ticket out of Canada for good.
In no way is India the answer to my questions. But Canada is not it either, at least not right now.

I hope to type a long post here on the day of my departure sharing my experience.
But right now, things, as it looked likely back then, have gotten worse overall than when I made my first posts.
Plus in macroeconomic terms, Canada officially entered a recession today.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by humyum

Thank you for the revert. Yes, I am from the IT field and eligible for it. Since you have been that side for long, would you have contacts that side I could maybe approach. I have 8 years of Product Management experience with lots of success stories with an education from UK for my MBA and Engineering ( if that matters at this poin in my career)

Currently the Dutch house of parliament has approved three amendments to the 30% ruling. It means the time you are eligible for the ruling will be reduced greatly. Also certain other advantages will be skipped completely. Under the current ruling employers can pay out the cost of International schooling of expat kids. That will disappear altogether. Under the current ruling you would also be exempt from the so called Box 3 tax. Which is basically an annual tax on all your worldly belongings, including everything you own abroad.

The amendments still need to be ratified by the “eerste kamer”. There is strong push from various parties to tamper these amendments or skip them all together.
It will be a few more months before this becomes clear. Also, in a few weeks we have national elections and it might become something different all together.

Can’t help you with the job references unfortunately. I spend the last fifteen years of my career working abroad and I retired almost three years ago. You won’t even find me on LinkedIn.

Good luck
Jeroen

[fuzzydealhunter]

Originally Posted by Imran.Syed

Staying true to my decision and after thinking it over a million times, I have booked my one way ticket out of Canada for good.
In no way is India the answer to my questions. But Canada is not it either, at least not right now.

Sorry to hear that but wish you the very best for you future endeavours in India.

[dailydriver]

Rich, poor, urban, rural, young, old, men, women, children - the American Dream manages to sweep everyone off their feet. A recent report highlights how the entry barriers to the US are being sidestepped by risk taking Indians.

At Least 97,000 Indians Held Entering US Illegally, Over 700 of Them Were Unaccompanied Children

The US Customs and Border Protection data shows that a record 96,917 Indians were apprehended while crossing into the US illegally between October 2022 and September 2023.

As per the data, close to 97,000 Indians have chosen to take these hazardous routes to cross into the US despite the tragic loss of lives on US’ southern borders as well as the northern borders. Out of the 96,917 Indians, 30,010 were caught entering the US illegally through the Canadian border and 41,770 were caught trying to enter the US illegally through the Mexican border...

The number of Indians trying to illegally enter the US has increased fivefold since 2019-2020 when 19,883 Indians were caught while trying to illegally enter the US.

However,

...people trying to illegally enter the US could be much higher... for every one person caught at the border, there could be 10 other who have managed to cross into the US.

The report dwells on the composition of the illegal entrants. Startlingly, 730 unaccompanied children figure in the list of detainees.

...these are residents of Gujarat and Punjab with aspirations to settle in the US... The report said that 84,000 single adults were apprehended at the US border... many Indians are caught in the US yearly but only few are deported as they seek shelter there citing humanitarian grounds

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

these are residents of Gujarat and Punjab with aspirations to settle in the US

I fail to understand one thing. Why are the illegal migrants mostly from these relatively rich states? Moreover, these are people are most likely prosperous & among the cream layer within these states as a flight to Mexico in itself might cost INR 1-1.5 lakhs. They could setup a nice business in their place of residence or do something production rather than risk a treacherous journey to work as what? Agricultural workers and labourers? They won’t get a skilled job as illegal migrants. Moreover, it would be extremely difficult to claim asylum as an Indian since India isn’t in the kind of mess that Central America is in.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

I fail to understand one thing. Why are the illegal migrants mostly from these relatively rich states? Moreover, these are people are most likely prosperous & among the cream layer within these states as a flight to Mexico in itself might cost INR 1-1.5 lakhs. They could setup a nice business in their place of residence or do something production rather than risk a treacherous journey to work as what? Agricultural workers and labourers? They won’t get a skilled job as illegal migrants. Moreover, it would be extremely difficult to claim asylum as an Indian since India isn’t in the kind of mess that Central America is in.

These two states have a long history of migration to North America with many making it big. There are entire villages where all that the people look forward to is to move there, by hook or crook. While some may have the money, others are funded by fellow villagers or their relatives/friends who have already made it there. You are right that they can use the same money to make it big in India, but the glamour and pull of making it overseas remains irresistible, especially to those who are not college graduates and good enough to land jobs in India. I will include the two telugu states also in the same list as GJ and Punjab where the overseas dream is a big industry.

My wife works with a big MNC bank in operations. One of her team members is in the process of applying to universities in Canada and Oz with the intention to migrate. He is a plain graduate and is unlikely to stand out to the extent that he will get a well paying desk job in the West. Yet, he is on the rolls of an MNC here and makes decent pay. He believes that moving to these countries will enable him to earn at a level where he does not have to look at the price tag of the stuff he wants to buy. His family isn't wealthy and he would likely have to borrow to fund his overseas dreams. Recently, he bought an expensive phone off Flipkart which he can afford from what he makes here. Go figure!

No way in hell should the illegal migrants from India qualify for asylum in the states. Far from being lumped with central American or African countries, India is way way ahead and if anything, serve as a model for some of these nations.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

I fail to understand one thing. Why are the illegal migrants mostly from these relatively rich states? Moreover, these are people are most likely prosperous & among the cream layer within these states as a flight to Mexico in itself might cost INR 1-1.5 lakhs. They could setup a nice business in their place of residence or do something production rather than risk a treacherous journey to work as what? Agricultural workers and labourers? They won’t get a skilled job as illegal migrants. Moreover, it would be extremely difficult to claim asylum as an Indian since India isn’t in the kind of mess that Central America is in.

To add to what has already been said, I also feel that Maslow's theory of hierarchy of needs has a role to play here. For the average less-educated resident of a poor state, ambitions would probably be limited to earning enough to ensure that the family does not go to bed hungry. The existing lifestyle of such a person is one that does not allow her/him to dream that far. A blue collar job in the 'big city' (i.e Delhi-Bombay) is in itself a big thing for such individuals.

On the other hand, for those who are already prosperous enough to have a roof over their head and food on the table, 'ambition' would mean a glamorous lifestyle. If they find that their existing qualifications are not enough to get them their dream lives, they see illegal immigration as an easy avenue to get there. The lack of awareness, coupled with the rosy dreams these organised border crossing cartels show to such people makes them believe that whatever they are doing is right.

I have two living examples of both thought processes in my staff. Both are drivers. One is from a less affluent village near the UP-MP border. He started off with a job as a car washer in Delhi in the mid 1990s. From there, he befriended a Kaali-peeli Esteem driver who taught him how to drive. He then went to Gujarat to drive a container truck. He has since then become a driver in the 'Big city' (Delhi). Before working for me, he used to drive a Fortuner for a businessman in Gurgaon. The guy is surely content with what he does.

The other driver is a part-timer. He is from a reasonably affluent family in Haryana. He is a graduate and speaks decent English. In his early youth, he tried his hand at clearing government job exams, but was not able to do so. Then, he tried to start a small business, but COVID happened and his venture failed. That led him to take up driving. But the lifestyle that this profession gets him in India does not satisfy him. To earn more money, he drives for me during the day and then during the night, he drives for Blusmart cabs. He is Instagram-Youtube aware and follows all those creators that show flamboyant lifestyles. Sooner or later, this kind of a person could think about moving abroad. Imagine, if he comes into contact with one of those illegal border crossing organisers, the rosy picture of the American dream that they paint could well be alluring enough for him to fall prey to it.

[PGA]

I have observed some aspects which are driving emigration (legal route) at least in my area and have not been adequately covered in our discussions here.

First, it is the inability of the wards of the middle class to find 'suitable' jobs here especially in the hinterland. Many guys feel if they have to move to a metro for a job, abroad is a better option.

Second, I find a lot of intercaste and inter religion couples who are migrating to get away from social restrictions here. Same goes for many from lower social strata.

Lastly I have seen many from my community who will not work at another's farm for a pay here but would rather go to Italy and labour on the farm there under very depressing conditions. I do not blame them for it, our social taboos overpower many here.

[am1m]

From the perspective of an observer with 'no skin in the game' (never lived abroad for an extended period of time, never thought about moving out of India), I see that some of the disadvantages that have been highlighted seem to be related to finding out that things in a different country aren't the way things are back home.

Which I think is a strange expectation when one moves to a different country with a different culture. I think Samurai san and Jeroen expressed it better on the thread much before- if you go with the intention of integrating, rather than re-creating your home country in the new place, I think one will stand a better chance of not being disappointed.

It's the same with the people I know from other countries who have moved to India, mainly on work. Given that some of them come from countries where it's safe to drink straight out of the tap, they can certainly have a lot to complain about India. But those who get past that usually find that they want to stay longer and are happy to see more of the country, than those who can't wait for their work assignments to finish.

Forget other countries, I see this with my older relatives from another state who moved to Bangalore and have some romanticized ideal of the home state. Even after decades here, they keep finding fault with the way things are here, but their kids who were born here (me included!) can't think of living anywhere else. This is home. I guess it's all down to what one was used to growing up and not everyone can really be comfortable in a different culture.

[madhu.rj]

Originally Posted by humyum

Can anyone help me with information on some agencies I can get in touch with for immigration to Netherlands?

My fiance and soon to be wife works there and I will be applying for a partner visa after we get married in December. It would be amazing if I could get a job before I land there so I could use the 30% ruling too and save on taxes.

I have 8 years of Product Management experience with lot of innovation and success stories on this journey.

The idea is to get a job there and build a corpus for mom's cancer treatment.

Hi,

Did you get any contacts?

Try emailing ERES Relocation NL (https://www.eresrelocation.nl/).

My company uses the services of their Spain office and I found them professional as far as the immigration is concerned (I have no personal contact with them except using their services; paid for, by my company).
They do charge but you can ask the fees beforehand.

Also, please check the news on changes to the 30% rule, it affects the overall savings goal.

Best of luck