[alto99]

Originally Posted by anupamjain2k

I have been following up with them for close to 3 months now, and escalated to the their quality head, managing director, and nothing seems to work.

Really at my wit's end here. Does anybody over here have had a similar experience or can offer any contacts @ ICICI Bank, who can resolve this?

Have you warned them that you will "contact Banking ombudsman"/"RBI for fraudulent practices". In my experience usage of such terms leads to better turnaround times. If it still hasn't/doesn't work out you can actually contact one http://www.icicibank.com/complaints/BO_Address.pdf
or https://secweb.rbi.org.in/BO/precompltindex.htm

[dmplog]

Originally Posted by babhishek

I assume this is a mastercard? Also, whats the number of usages in a quarter/year allowed?

For Infinite Cards, it is 4 lounge accesses per quarter. For platinum / signature cards, it is 2 lounge accesses per quarter.

[null]

Originally Posted by anupamjain2k

Really at my wit's end here. Does anybody over here have had a similar experience or can offer any contacts @ ICICI Bank, who can resolve this?

I would suggest you to follow the escalation process correctly. As a first action, raise a complaint (assuming you are just having email interactions & not really a formal complaint) & then go through Step 2 , Step 3 & Step 4 given in the link below: http://www.icicibank.com/complaints/customer-care.html

BTW, I had a situation with ICICI few years ago where someone called up few times & abused my parents for a car loan payment default while EMI cheques were encashed promptly each month. I had raised a complaint & asked for proof of defaulting, which they tried to justify initially but then realised they do not have any proof. I wanted to send them a legal notice saying you are ruining my credit history & wanted a formal apology letter stating there is no impact for you because of their goof up. They did not do it and sweet talked & evaded anything in writing. So, if you need any proof, you better have everything in writing rather than calling the help desk / contacts.

[anupamjain2k]

alto99: I actually filed a complaint with RBI Banking Ombudsman, and informed them of the same. Is there an equivalent authority in IT department? Because there's a mail on their letter-head claiming the amount as TDS, and then not depositing the same with IT authority, is a legal offense!

null: I have followed all the steps there, and there's along mail-trail (Over 30 linked messages, over a period of 3 months!)

Am wondering if I should actually be reaching out to fora like "fightback" on Bloomberg TV....

But, this is seriously disappointing behaviour from ICICI Bank...

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by Guite

Apparently there is better fraud protection in credit card. Is this true or false?

Ideally the fraud protection should be same for both credit and debit cards. But looks like credit card protection is better.

There are multiple levels of fraud protection techniques banks and card companies use. The two most common ones are

1. Additional authorisation (extra password) like 'Verified by Visa" or "Secure Code by Mastercard". When you do an online transaction, they ask for an extra password. The idea is even if someone stole your card, they won't know the password. This is implemented by card companies like Visa and Mastercard. This will be activated for all transactions going through Visa network- whether it is debit card or credit card. Same level of protection. Only for online transactions.

2. SMS / email alert. This is implemented by your bank. Bank sends an sms alert for credit/debit card transactions - online as well as ATM or POS (restaurant, shops etc). OK, here is the twist. The alert is not always generated. It depends on

a. Alerts based on transaction type - most banks have alerts for all transactions, but you may be surprised, there can be exceptions (for eg: HDFC doesn't alert Mastercard transactions through SMS.). Or some bank may have alerts for ATM withdrawal, but not for card swiping at a shop (I don't know of any example, theoretically possible). Or alerts ON for credit card transactions and not for debit card transactions.

b. Alert based on amount - to reduce no of sms alerts banks would have implemented certain threshold. Eg: Alert sms only for transactions above Rs 5000. So if a fraud (or genuine) transaction of 4000 rupees happens, no sms is sent.

c. Alerts based on user preference - this is very dangerous. Here the bank gives the choice of whether to alert or not, threshold amount etc to the customer. And some banks charge customers for these alert messages. Sometimes customers knowingly or unknowingly don't subscribe for these alerts and may miss on any fraud transactions.

When you do purchase online or swipe at a shop - all credit card transactions go through Visa/Mastercard network and most banks have enabled alerts.
In case of debit cards, in ATM or POS, it may not go through Visa network. It goes to NPCI network (National payment Corp of India) and depending on bank's policy, alerts may not be generated.

So the protection level depends on what systems your bank has implemented for debit and credit card transaction monitoring.
Common sense says they invest more in monitoring credit card transactions.

Credit card - the banks (and merchants) get money only after few days from the customer. So banks take extra care to monitor credit card transactions to avoid/reduce disputes and frauds. In case of debit card, money is instantly deducted from your account and banks are not as much worried.

[binand]

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

A1. Never user EMI option on credit card - it is as simple as that. Many people get lured into these EMI schemes and end up buying things which they can't afford or don't require.

Like a lot of advice in life, this also cannot be absolute and needs to be qualified. Generally if there is an interest rate associated with the EMI scheme, then it will be most likely higher than even the personal loan rates and hence you are right - it needs to be avoided. Further, the evaluation of the necessity and affordability of the product you are about to buy is something that only you would know. But if the product is something that is essential in your life, and the scheme is 0% but with a processing fee, it might be to your advantage to go for it. For example, last Diwali I bought a Fridge in this scheme (6 EMIs, 0% interest, Rs. 999 processing fee) - I calculate the hidden rate of interest in the scheme to be about 4%. If I consider Rs. 100 spent on the card = Re. 1 in reward points usable 1 year after the purchase, then the hidden rate of interest comes down to 1%. This is a great offer when one considers the time value of money.

Plus I avoided the short-term cash flow problem too.

Originally Posted by anupamjain2k

During Diwali last year, ICICI Bank was running a promotional scheme [...] Sometime in January, they charge me tax, which I paid, and said they'd send me the TDS Certificate.

My first reaction is to tell you that you chose to deal with ICICI Bank, you clean up the mess, but then this is a scenario I found myself in some months back (different people, but final summary - payments due to me were paid after TDS which was not paid to the government). I did a lot of research at that time and eventually sent the other party (a Pvt. Ltd. company) a letter which essentially said that I was protected under section 205 of the Income Tax Act but I intended to inform my assessing officer and the TDS Cell about this particular problem before filing my own return. Since such a letter from my side would have resulted in a criminal case against their CEO/directors (section 276B of IT Act, I think), they immediately made the payment and issued whatever documents were due to me.

[lambuhere1]

Originally Posted by anupamjain2k

Because there's a mail on their letter-head claiming the amount as TDS, and then not depositing the same with IT authority, is a legal offense!

Try this choice. It works wonders, according to Bhpians

http://pgportal.gov.in/

[rohan_iitr]

Originally Posted by binand

Like a lot of advice in life, this also cannot be absolute and needs to be qualified. Generally if there is an interest rate associated with the EMI scheme, then it will be most likely higher than even the personal loan rates and hence you are right - it needs to be avoided. Further, the evaluation of the necessity and affordability of the product you are about to buy is something that only you would know. But if the product is something that is essential in your life, and the scheme is 0% but with a processing fee, it might be to your advantage to go for it.

My advice of not using EMI option on credit card was meant for people who are new to credit cards and who do not understand the financial implications of such offers.

But people like you and me, who have certain amount of experience using credit cards and are capable of understanding the pros and cons of EMI offer can always use it with caution.

Rohan

[rkg]

I have an issue with HDFC CC. iam using a platinum plus cc since dec 2011. I was always paying in full on due date. few times the payment was credited to my cc account 2-3 days after due date. But HDFC never put fiance charges on my account till now.

But the in the month of August 2013 the due date is 7th aug. i have dropped the check on 6th august. HDFC statement is showing the payment is credited on 12th august. But the check was debited from my SBI account on 10th august at 9AM. Now HDFC puts finance charges of Rs 4034 + 500/ odd service tax on my account + late payment fee of Rs 700/-. They have offered to reduce the finance charges by half and waive off late fee fully.

When there is no late payment fee , how finance charges apply?

Out of curiosity i have calculated to see how the rs 4000 is arrived at. if one were to assume HDFC date of 12 august, it comes to 2,200 and if i were to take 10th august, it come to 1,800/ only.

How HDFC calculated rs 4000 is I could not understand. i have followed the calculation procedure given in bank website.

Only assumption i could make is, HDFC is just putting the finance charges to cover rewards points redeemed by me( i had redeemed points for Rs 4000/ raymonds vouchers in july, 2013). Because HDFC has never put finance charges in my account for 2-3 days delay

Here they took time to deposit the check

They credited the amount in to cc account after 2 days. They are arguing that 10th august is Saturday, so they got the payment on 12th august. In these days of electronic clearing and CTC checks, is it possible that customer gets debited and it takes 2 days for the recipient to receive payment. My assumption is it is immediate. Because usual banking hours for SBI are 10 AM to 4 PM. I have got SMS at 9.06 AM stating the check is cleared.

Iam thinking of complaining to Ombudsmen and also cancel the card with immediate effect after clearing all the dues except the finance charges

[amtak]

Originally Posted by rkg

except the finance charges

If I may suggest that you clear all the dues including these before you close the card or fight off these charges, ensure that the next statement that you get shows outstanding as 0.00 Rs and then close the card. In the current scenario, the CC executive will close the card without closing the outstanding amount and show it as Not recoverable or something. This will affect your CIBIL rating.

Just my 2 cents. I sam saying this as I have never had a very good experience of dealing with HDFC.

[binand]

Originally Posted by rkg

They credited the amount in to cc account after 2 days. They are arguing that 10th august is Saturday, so they got the payment on 12th august. In these days of electronic clearing and CTC checks, is it possible that customer gets debited and it takes 2 days for the recipient to receive payment.

This is correct. They get the money only on the next working day due to the way inter-bank cheque clearing system works (since your account was debited on 10/8 and since 11/8 was a Sunday, the card company could get their hands on your money only on 12/8).

CTS is about the authenticity of the cheques; not about the funds transfer process itself.

Ideally, you should be dropping the cheque at least 3-4 working days prior to your pay-by date. Even better, make the payments via NEFT - it has a credit-next-working-day SLA.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by amtak

If I may suggest that you clear all the dues including these before you close the card or fight off these charges, ensure that the next statement that you get shows outstanding as 0.00 Rs and then close the card. In the current scenario, the CC executive will close the card without closing the outstanding amount and show it as Not recoverable or something. This will affect your CIBIL rating.

Just my 2 cents. I sam saying this as I have never had a very good experience of dealing with HDFC.

Iam not unduly worried about CIBIL. I have salary account with SBI for the past 15 years. SO no problem on that account.

With regard to check clearing, HDFC would not have charged me finance fees if i have not redeemed the points. That much iam sure. because HDFC has never charged me earlier even though payment was delayed by few days. Here the finance charges are almost same as redeemed vouchers value.

Till now it has not sent me how they calculated the finance charges.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by rkg

Iam not unduly worried about CIBIL. I have salary account with SBI for the past 15 years. SO no problem on that account.

With regard to check clearing, HDFC would not have charged me finance fees if i have not redeemed the points. That much iam sure. because HDFC has never charged me earlier even though payment was delayed by few days. Here the finance charges are almost same as redeemed vouchers value.

Till now it has not sent me how they calculated the finance charges.

My experience was somewhat similar. All of a sudden, they sent me a message on Friday night that on Saturday my card would be de-activated due to prolonged in activity; fair enough on their part. when I called the HDFC guys to check on the points (I guess i had 4K points); I was told if I swipe the card, they wont cancel it. Now came the twist, I swiped the card, they still blocked it and my points are gone. I ended up paying unnecessarily for the swipe that I had made.

[null]

Originally Posted by amtak

...All of a sudden, they sent me a message on Friday night that on Saturday my card would be de-activated due to prolonged in activity; fair enough on their part. when I called the HDFC guys to check on the points (I guess i had 4K points)..

Even I got an SMS over the weekend and an email today stating the card will be disabled for security reasons due to non-activity. I guess I will call up and ask them to hold it. BTW I had made a 17k transaction few hours prior to that message.

Luckily I do not have any major points on this card. So, its OK if I lose it. I have an HDFC bank account for 10+ years now. Card was given for free with a fuel surcharge waiver & I had taken it, but never used it for fuel anywhere since I had my other ICICI HP card (another free card) which I used always.

[sgiitk]

Thanks. I was thinking of adding HDFC as another bank. Now I will have to reconsider.