[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by bhardwhu

Sure, I already own a 1600 cc Vulcan nomad and use extensively in US. It is only during my India trips that I want to ride and am debating between buying and owning one. My total trip duration in any given year is not more than thirty days. So I am not sure which way to look at.

Bhardwhu, this is contrary to what you would like to do and the suggestions from our forum. I am putting forth a completely different perspective for you to really think about especially since you talk about not more than 30 days in a year and maybe 10 days at a time.

You are an experienced mature rider and maybe have ridden at a time in India when our roads were much much safer, people used to follow rules and maybe more considerate to other users as well. Nowadays it's crazy out there and for a person not used to riding in these conditions it could get very tricky.

Since you ride extensively in the US, do you really feel the absolute need to ride in India? I am merely talking from the safety perspective. If its a bit of touring you need to do, hire a car for that, why take unnecessary risks in the short time you are here.

Just food for thought my friend.

Take care and ride safe.

Cheers

[bhardwhu]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Bhardwhu, this is contrary to what you would like to do and the suggestions from our forum. I am putting forth a completely different perspective for you to really think about especially since you talk about not more than 30 days in a year and maybe 10 days at a time.

You are an experienced mature rider and maybe have ridden at a time in India when our roads were much much safer, people used to follow rules and maybe more considerate to other users as well. Nowadays it's crazy out there and for a person not used to riding in these conditions it could get very tricky.

Since you ride extensively in the US, do you really feel the absolute need to ride in India? I am merely talking from the safety perspective. If its a bit of touring you need to do, hire a car for that, why take unnecessary risks in the short time you are here.

Just food for thought my friend.

Take care and ride safe.

Cheers

Thank you sir for the concern and advise. I do ride quite a lot here in US and at the same time, I always ride whenever I am in India, which is twice an year. The itch to ride big bikes has always been there but did not get that opportunity since riding scene is still evolving back in our country. I rode almost a decade on bikes like thunderbird and moved up heavier cruisers in US since last six years. Bikes are very affordable here and that aided my decision to pick up a motorcycle as first means of commute, even before I got a car.
Now, since I only have few days in a year when I can travel back and live my riding passion ( wish I had more time to do that!), I am here asking for advise.
regards

[Himalayan_Ice]

Thanks OP for the absolute banger of a post!


I'm riding a D390 as of now, but neither do I like its choppy ride quality in lower gears, nor is its buzzy feel past a 100 worth the effort.



In my opinion 80-90kph is the sweet spot for this machine, and for that band the riding position is a bit too aggressive.


Been lusting for a bobber (Triumph / Indian) for a few months now, and would've bought one of them if it wasn't for this post.

[Ajaybiz]

Nicely covered all the plus and negative part of owning big bike in india.
I am enjoying my share with big bikes from past 4 years now and learnt how to manage it on and off the road, my bike itself taught me how to deal with all sort of situations.
Had mini big bike(BMW G310GS) as well for one year but the hunger for power made me divorce that mini master piece within a year of ownership.
Have covered around 30000 kms in past 4 years on my Triumph Tiger 800 xcx, initial 2 years I had done over 20K kms and with pressure from work and family restricted my rides from past two years.
Hoping to kick start those big rides including cross country in next 18 months again with having a dream of owning Papa GS and one 650 cc dual purpose bike.
Somehow lost interest in any bike below 50 BHP which are weighing over 150 kg.

[stanjohn123]

I have read this post earlier but I re-read the post again today just to keep a reality check on the plight of owning a super bike in India.

I am one of those riders who doesn't like to adjust with an inconvenience after paying so much for a bike. So my requirements are quite humble and practical.

Like some of you know my first bike was an RR 310 which I still own. I love it to bits because of it's practicality, Super Sport Looks, decent performance , reasonably priced spares, tractable engine, excellent heat management, array of features, compliant suspension and non-committed stance.

I think I have just enough confidence to now try my hands at a middle weight super bike. So as a second bike I know what are my requirements now.

The bike should have at least double the power of my current bike, it should not weigh more than 190-200 Kgs, must have reasonably priced spares with good availability, filled with features such as TFT screens, LED lights et all, good heat management, Super Sport looks, comfortable riders triangle, comfortable suspensions. It would be a huge plus if the bike is VFM priced as well. This last point is only possible if latest acquisitions/collaborations between TVS and Norton + BMW or Bajaj and KTM + Triumph release a bike together.

But seeing our current market, the only bikes available that fulfill my requirements are the Ninja 1000, Ninja 650 and CBR 650R. Then we have the upcoming bikes like the CBR 500R and the KTM 490's.

[amods]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

The bike should have at least double the power of my current bike, it should not weigh more than 190-200 Kgs, must have reasonably priced spares with good availability, filled with features such as TFT screens, LED lights et all, good heat management, Super Sport looks, comfortable riders triangle, comfortable suspensions. It would be a huge plus if the bike is VFM priced as well. This last point is only possible if latest acquisitions/collaborations between TVS and Norton + BMW or Bajaj and KTM + Triumph release a bike together.

But seeing our current market, the only bikes available that fulfill my requirements are the Ninja 1000, Ninja 650 and CBR 650R. Then we have the upcoming bikes like the CBR 500R and the KTM 490's.

Based on your requirements, I would suggest the CBR 650R hands down. It has excellent 4cyl mill which churns ample power to almost match litre class bikes and has the brilliant 4cyl exhaust note post mid range - it is to die for.

It has got an excellent rider triangle which will allow you to cruise comfortably and willing for more at end of day.

The looks of the R version are far ahead of the F and it has all LED setup as well.

Being a Honda, the service and spares are well below the competitors like Kawasaki

It will cost you ~9 - 9.2L OTR in major cities. Goes well ahead in competition like 2cyl ninja/versys/Vstrom etc. And cheaper in maintenance as compared to Ninja 900+ series.

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by amods

Based on your requirements, I would suggest the CBR 650R hands down. It has excellent 4cyl mill which churns ample power to almost match litre class bikes and has the brilliant 4cyl exhaust note post mid range - it is to die for.

It has got an excellent rider triangle which will allow you to cruise comfortably and willing for more at end of day.

The looks of the R version are far ahead of the F and it has all LED setup as well.

Being a Honda, the service and spares are well below the competitors like Kawasaki

It will cost you ~9 - 9.2L OTR in major cities. Goes well ahead in competition like 2cyl ninja/versys/Vstrom etc. And cheaper in maintenance as compared to Ninja 900+ series.

Thanks for the suggestion. What you said is true, the CBR 650R seems like a good choice as many people said its VFM compared to the Ninja 650 at 7 lakh rs. It'll be a bit heavier than the Ninja 650 too.

Being an inline 4, how is the heat management in the CBR 650R ?

[bf1983]

The CBR 650R ticks all boxes but its currently not available new. You will have to wait a bit till Honda decides to launch this bike in its BS6 avatar. Only negative of the Honda is the weight is at 207 kgs and so a bit above your weight requirement.

Spares and service of the Honda are far cheaper than any other cbu sports bike in India.

[amods]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Being an inline 4, how is the heat management in the CBR 650R ?

It is excellent for city rides as well.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

But seeing our current market, the only bikes available that fulfill my requirements are the Ninja 1000, Ninja 650 and CBR 650R. Then we have the upcoming bikes like the CBR 500R and the KTM 490's.

Please forget the Ninja 650. Coming from an RR310, this option will keep you happy for another year at best - before the itch to move on!

CBR 650R makes for a much better choice, but is not launched in the BS6 version yet. Are you talking of pre-owned bikes?

If pre-owned, go for the Ninja 1000 without a second thought! More depreciation in higher segments and the difference in prices between the 650s and 1000s in the used market is less than the difference in their on-road prices. But the Ninja 1000 is nothing close to your 190-200 Kgs weight parameter.

If you can leave out the supersport'ish looks - look at the 2020 Z900. Inline4, 125ps, 212 kg, power modes, traction control, riding modes - quite the package for a similar price as the CBR 650R.

Originally Posted by amods

Being a Honda, the service and spares are well below the competitors like Kawasaki

No savings here, except for high mileage users. Owners need to pay a big premium upfront and hope to retrieve it every time at the service center.

2020 Z900 BS4 (limited run) and CBR650R prices were a no-brainer, except for the fairing. BS6 Africa Twin pricing is another. Will need a few years of 5k per service savings to break even.

[deepfreak15]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

But seeing our current market, the only bikes available that fulfill my requirements are the Ninja 1000, Ninja 650 and CBR 650R. Then we have the upcoming bikes like the CBR 500R and the KTM 490's.

From your profile I'm guessing 90% of your riding is between TN74 and KL01 (forgive me if I'm way off the mark) and trust me for those roads either of the KTM 390 twins (RC/ Duke) is the perfect weapon. Those roads and the bikes are the perfect match but sadly you will be tagged as an immature squid in those parts by virtue of association with the orange brigand.That's the only negative I can imagine. On paper the 390 Twins may not be 2x the Apache though if you haven't already tried them go ahead and give it a shot.

But if you are looking for more oomph and not get bored easily, stay away from the Ninja 650 twins (N/Z). They are good bikes in their own rights but make more sense if you are upgrading from a 100-150 cc commuter. Instead look for a Triumph street triple like other forum members have recommended. If you are really lucky you might be able to snare a Duke 790 but be prepared for some niggles.I would have recommended a Ducati Scrambler but you might have an issue with service in your neck of the woods.

While you are at it work on your core and functional strength, again I'm assuming the only reason weight is a factor is for manouvering the bike when you are not on it and not for some power to weight ratio requirement. You might find moving a 200+ kg bike around a tad bit easier thereby broadening your options.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If pre-owned, go for the Ninja 1000 without a second thought! More depreciation in higher segments and the difference in prices between the 650s and 1000s in the used market is less than the difference in their on-road prices. But the Ninja 1000 is nothing close to your 190-200 Kgs weight parameter.

.
Not a good idea if he lives in or around TN75. Manouvering around and intercity runs till he gets to a proper highway will be a nightmare.

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by bf1983

The CBR 650R ticks all boxes but its currently not available new. You will have to wait a bit till Honda decides to launch this bike in its BS6 avatar. Only negative of the Honda is the weight is at 207 kgs and so a bit above your weight requirement.

Spares and service of the Honda are far cheaper than any other cbu sports bike in India.

Yes planning to wait for the BS6 version. The higher weight is the only downside.

Apart from that they have made the design a bit dull. You don't get the cool bronze paint on the engine case anymore.

Originally Posted by amods

It is excellent for city rides as well.

That's good to know.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Please forget the Ninja 650. Coming from an RR310, this option will keep you happy for another year at best - before the itch to move on!

CBR 650R makes for a much better choice, but is not launched in the BS6 version yet. Are you talking of pre-owned bikes?

Thanks for this advise, many have suggested to just skip the Ninja 650 and I too think it is a wise choice because I tend to keep vehicles for longer. If I am attached to something I don't sell it easily. If I get bored of the 650 then I have to worry about the depreciation hit when I sell it as well.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If pre-owned, go for the Ninja 1000 without a second thought! More depreciation in higher segments and the difference in prices between the 650s and 1000s in the used market is less than the difference in their on-road prices. But the Ninja 1000 is nothing close to your 190-200 Kgs weight parameter.

Actually used route is the very last option only. The Ninja 1000 is definitely not at all feasible for me. I checked some ownership reviews and they all complain about it's heat in our climate and then there is it's weight. I have to be realistic, Liter class bikes are not for me. I feel it's dangerous and just inconvenient for our climate and roads.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If you can leave out the supersport'ish looks - look at the 2020 Z900. Inline4, 125ps, 212 kg, power modes, traction control, riding modes - quite the package for a similar price as the CBR 650R.

No savings here, except for high mileage users. Owners need to pay a big premium upfront and hope to retrieve it every time at the service center.

2020 Z900 BS4 (limited run) and CBR650R prices were a no-brainer, except for the fairing. BS6 Africa Twin pricing is another. Will need a few years of 5k per service savings to break even.

The Z900 will be over whelming. I don't think I can handle all that power to be quite honest. Plus it's weight is another downer. Also not really a fan of nakeds.

The 650R is more tamed and to my liking. I think I can use it practically and safely.

Honda is pricier but they are reliable and biggest plus is their low service cost. It just mocks the Europeans like Triumph and Benellis.

With RR 310 I was getting Home Service where the tech used to come home. I hope that kind of service is available also with Honda.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

The Z900 will be overwhelming.

The 650R is more tamed and to my liking.

If it feels like a tamed choice during the consideration period - you will run out of excitement within a couple of years of ownership. Isn't that the same reason you're looking at a middleweight over your RR310 now?

Z900 won't be overwhelming, especially due to linear power delivery and riding modes. It allows you to run half-power mode if you want to take it easy during the initial days.

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Plus it's weight is another downer.

There is just a difference of 2 kgs between the Z900 and CBR650R!

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by deepfreak15

From your profile I'm guessing 90% of your riding is between TN74 and KL01 (forgive me if I'm way off the mark) and trust me for those roads either of the KTM 390 twins (RC/ Duke) is the perfect weapon. Those roads and the bikes are the perfect match but sadly you will be tagged as an immature squid in those parts by virtue of association with the orange brigand.That's the only negative I can imagine. On paper the 390 Twins may not be 2x the Apache though if you haven't already tried them go ahead and give it a shot.

But if you are looking for more oomph and not get bored easily, stay away from the Ninja 650 twins (N/Z). They are good bikes in their own rights but make more sense if you are upgrading from a 100-150 cc commuter. Instead look for a Triumph street triple like other forum members have recommended. If you are really lucky you might be able to snare a Duke 790 but be prepared for some niggles.I would have recommended a Ducati Scrambler but you might have an issue with service in your neck of the woods.

While you are at it work on your core and functional strength, again I'm assuming the only reason weight is a factor is for manouvering the bike when you are not on it and not for some power to weight ratio requirement. You might find moving a 200+ kg bike around a tad bit easier thereby broadening your options.

.
Not a good idea if he lives in or around TN75. Manouvering around and intercity runs till he gets to a proper highway will be a nightmare.

To be honest in 2 years of owning the RR 310 I have gone only for 2 long rides. All others have been for my personal errands only. Due to family commitments and business it's impossible to go for longer rides often.

I don't like the KTM's because that bikes character and committed stance is not to my liking. Ofcourse I don't prefer the squid tag as well associated with those bikes.

I'm looking for an upgrade as a second bike, so I'm not looking at the 300cc class anymore.

My main requirements are, I don't want it to be an inconvenience for me. I can't bear the heat and weight of those heavier powerful machines. I don't want after sales service and costs to be an issue as well.

Basically I am a very lazy dude, I'm not going to do anything that will make me adjust with a bikes shortcomings.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If it feels like a tamed choice during the consideration period - you will run out of excitement within a couple of years of ownership. Isn't that the same reason you're looking at a middleweight over your RR310 now?

Z900 won't be overwhelming, especially due to linear power delivery and riding modes. It allows you to run half-power mode if you want to take it easy during the initial days.


There is just a difference of 2 kgs between the Z900 and CBR650R!

I meant tamed compared to likes of Z900. The 650R is plenty powerful for me from the RR310. Plus I will still keep the RR310.

I came with Ninja 650 in mind but you convinced me 650R is much better , so it's an inline-4 now. But please don't push me to Liter class nakeds too :-P.

Seeing all those super fast videos online of the Z900, I just have some kind of mental block probably.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

To be honest in 2 years of owning the RR 310 I have gone only for 2 long rides. All others have been for my personal errands only.

I'm looking for an upgrade as a second bike, so I'm not looking at the 300cc class anymore.

Please ignore my earlier posts.

Honest opinion - You need to ride more and not be looking at an upgrade option! 300cc or 650cc doesn't matter if you're only able to ride once a year!