[JayD]

Originally Posted by Dr.Awesomeness

We were in for a surprise yesterday. Took our blade for a liitle checkup at our trusted mechanics place and found three not so familiar faces in the garage. The mechanics dad came to us and asked if we had all the papers, or else leave immediately. On further inquiry we found out that the three gentlemen inside were none other than the "feared and fabled" DRI officials. Our's was an Indian invoiced bike so no issues. A Super Blackbird was not so lucky. It was nicked by the officials and hauled off. The bike was a foreign national's bike bought here on a yacht and bike had some mechanical issues and was bought in for service. Don't know whats gonna happen now, just hoping that the guy gets back his love back without much trouble. So guys, if you have a 'Grey' bike in or around Kochi, its better to move it to some place safer, till everything cools off.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I heard that the foreign national was carrying the bike on a yacht and did not have permission/approval/papers to use the bike in India. However, since his bike developed an issue, which could not be fixed on board the yacht, it was taken to a local mechanic - where the DRI took the bike into custody.

The black blackbird from Thrissur is safe and sound. It is a legal import.

Starry sky is right, the bike was brought down by a foreigner in a yacht, and it was not running. He took it to the garage without any permissions or a local reg.

Again, im told that it was the customs dept which has done this and not the DRI.

Dr awesomeness, this has nothing to do with the DRI, and hence the thread title is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

As far as I know most of the big bikes in Cochin are grey market ones. There was a mechanic in the Kaloor region who was telling me to pick up a 600 last year as a couple of them had come up for sale (he had grossly overestimated the size of my wallet .....) . When I kept pressing him on details of the papers I found out that they werent in place so I didnt even bother finding about more details.

Most of the greymarket bikes in cochin are now gone, and replaced with indian invoice items. There are quite a few greys around, but it would be untrue to quote that most of them are.

Also, 600's are never sold in india, and hence finding one with legal papers is a very hard task.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by the VTEC guy

common. If its a 'Grey' bike it has to be impounded, recover the loss of duties/tax with interest. why are we talking about hiding? supporting the crime. So somebody has saved on import duties and others like you and me will keep on repaying for it with hiked fuel prices!

dont we middle class all try to save taxes?

Assume 10000 bikes with wrong papers. That would be what : 2-4L per bike?

That is a total of 400cr maximum total.

The Fuel subsidy bill crossed 200,000 cr long back.

Appreciate your sentiment but the logic is fairly warped. We are paying for the NREGA, the fertilizer subsidy, the diesl subsidy and also for bad economics.

bad policy -> bad exchange rate -> oil prices go up even more. no?
here is what contributed to the latest mess: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17952327

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by JayD

Most of the greymarket bikes in cochin are now gone, and replaced with indian invoice items. There are quite a few greys around, but it would be untrue to quote that most of them are.

Also, 600's are never sold in india, and hence finding one with legal papers is a very hard task.

Any idea where the older grey market ones have gone? By Indian invoice bikes I assume you mean the newer >800cc ones sold through dealerships.

[Dr.Awesomeness]

Originally Posted by the VTEC guy

common. If its a 'Grey' bike it has to be impounded, recover the loss of duties/tax with interest. why are we talking about hiding? supporting the crime. So somebody has saved on import duties and others like you and me will keep on repaying for it with hiked fuel prices!

Brother i understand what you are saying, are you saying that if we had paid the duties we were supposed to pay , the petrol prices would be less?? I am a tax paying citizen and i am pretty sure the tax that i have paid hasn't gone into the development of the country. I am ready to pay all the duties for importing, if the procedure was transparent and easy. As you said, someone did save duties, i don't believe the current owner should be held liable for that.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I heard that the foreign national was carrying the bike on a yacht and did not have permission/approval/papers to use the bike in India. However, since his bike developed an issue, which could not be fixed on board the yacht, it was taken to a local mechanic - where the DRI took the bike into custody.

I have a strong hunch, that the foreigner may not have used the legal channel to bring the bike out of the port. When so much hue and cry was created for moving F1 related items, which was more organized and a matter of national pride to host F1 Races, what power would a motor-cyclist have.

I am sure its not straight-forward in india to take a bike out for service and bring it back to the yacht. No-one will agree to that since one cannot track the bike outside port. If one does not have papers to use the bike in india, how did the bike get out of the port. It is easier to bring a mechanic inside the port rather than taking the bike to the mechanic

Secondly, is the mechanic competent enough to repair an imported bike. I know enough mechanics who do not touch RE Bullets, forget imported bikes. Even if he did, would the mechanic have spares.

Something is wrong here. I do not see logic here.

[Dr.Awesomeness]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Secondly, is the mechanic competent enough to repair an imported bike. I know enough mechanics who do not touch RE Bullets, forget imported bikes. Even if he did, would the mechanic have spares.

Something is wrong here. I do not see logic here.

The mechanic in question is a revered one down south. His dad was the first guy to get big bikes fixed in Kerala and now his son is doing it. Everyone in the super-biking community down south knows the mech, he's the best in Kerala. He's got the skills to aluminium weld the chassis of a broken down busa, that's how good this guy is. So that answers the competence part. The mech didn't have any dealings regarding the bike, except that the bike was brought to his garage and taken away from there.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by Dr.Awesomeness

The mechanic in question is a revered one down south.

Then the questions remains:

• Whether there is a provision in customs / indian law to move a bike out of port for a visiting tourist like the yacht person. I have heard of people and materials being brought into the port for repair of ships and associated items, but not heard of the other way.
• Whether bribe was paid and authorities allowed to bike to go out of port on a mutual verbal agreement, since anyway his yacht was docked at port and he would return back for sure.
• Whether the bike-owner smuggled the bike without the knowledge of authorities.

[Dr.Awesomeness]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Then the questions remains:

• Whether there is a provision in customs / indian law to move a bike out of port for a visiting tourist like the yacht person. I have heard of people and materials being brought into the port for repair of ships and associated items, but not heard of the other way.
• Whether bribe was paid and authorities allowed to bike to go out of port on a mutual verbal agreement, since anyway his yacht was docked at port and he would return back for sure.
• Whether the bike-owner smuggled the bike without the knowledge of authorities.

I don't think the guy smuggled the bike out of the port. Some kind of agreement might have been made with the port. I guess if the guy had berthed the yacht at the Cochin marina for yachts and sailboats, which is quite a bit away from the port, the guy not knowing the correct procedures might have just took the bike out, loaded it into a pick-up and drove off, as simple as that. The security in the marina is down right horrible.

[Pancham]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

dont we middle class all try to save taxes?

Sir, I feel you have failed to differentiate between tax saving and tax evasion. Both are entirely different words with different meanings. We all know the system in our country is not proper and transparent but that doesn't give us the right to be corrupt and evade taxes. I second V-Tech here. Cheers.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Pancham

Sir, I feel you have failed to differentiate between tax saving and tax evasion. Both are entirely different words with different meanings. We all know the system in our country is not proper and transparent but that doesn't give us the right to be corrupt and evade taxes. I second V-Tech here. Cheers.

Ah, let me list out the great Indian middle class hypocrisy? (I am just as much a part):
- Fraud medical bills i.e getting them made at a 2-5% commission
- Fraud rental bills - over declaration and duplicate declaration by people sharing the rent
- Under declaration of income - e.g My ex-landlord tried to take the rent in cash and said 'arre agreement ki kya jaroorat hai, we are both gentlemen'. When I insisted on both - he took cheque in his wife's name and she never filed for taxes.
- Cash component in land/property sale/purchase - Nowhere is this more common than the 'middle class' areas of Dwarka and Vasant Kunj. Try buying a flat for 'full white' and see whether anyone even wants to deal with you - its over 50% cash deals.
- Purchase of stuff like furniture etc - always done on cash. Both my furniture guy and the woodwork guy said - 12.36% svc tax extra if u want a proper bill. Guess what I did?

Is this not commonplace in your offices or friends or family circle?

Let's not adopt an holier-than-thou perspective. Alot of us would have behaved the same way as those people if we would have found ourselves in the same situation. We're all humans. Imperfect. Fallible.

[Dr.Awesomeness]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Ah, let me list out the great Indian middle class hypocrisy? (I am just as much a part):
- Fraud medical bills i.e getting them made at a 2-5% commission
- Fraud rental bills - over declaration and duplicate declaration by people sharing the rent
- Under declaration of income - e.g My ex-landlord tried to take the rent in cash and said 'arre agreement ki kya jaroorat hai, we are both gentlemen'. When I insisted on both - he took cheque in his wife's name and she never filed for taxes.
- Cash component in land/property sale/purchase - Nowhere is this more common than the 'middle class' areas of Dwarka and Vasant Kunj. Try buying a flat for 'full white' and see whether anyone even wants to deal with you - its over 50% cash deals.
- Purchase of stuff like furniture etc - always done on cash. Both my furniture guy and the woodwork guy said - 12.36% svc tax extra if u want a proper bill. Guess what I did?

Is this not commonplace in your offices or friends or family circle?

Let's not adopt an holier-than-thou perspective. Alot of us would have behaved the same way as those people if we would have found ourselves in the same situation. We're all humans. Imperfect. Fallible.

You said it bro, everyone rooting for the DRI action on SBK's here have someway or the other evaded taxes or made some adjustment to not pay taxes someway or the other. We are Indians and we by default are the most cash conscious crowd. Even if we have money to buy a SBK, we will look out for a loophole to save some money. The last time I checked the govt: had to pay money back to me and i never got it. This was the deposit that i paid for a fancy number or our car for which we lost the auction. This was two years back, no word about that money.

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

..........

Let's not adopt an holier-than-thou perspective. Alot of us would have behaved the same way as those people if we would have found ourselves in the same situation. We're all humans. Imperfect. Fallible.

Well said Sir!

This is the problem with all us Indians. Hypocrisy to the limits. We will preach like saints and then not ask for a bill from the jeweler. Why? Because then we need to pay tax. I bet everyone here has done it. We pay Income tax on our earnings, sales and other taxes on buying different things as well as vehicles. Then to use them on the roads we pay road tax as well as toll taxes, and then to fill them up, we pay taxes on fuel as well. Plus a whole lot of taxes on other things. With paychecks which do not increase with the same rate as the inflation, what do people expect us to do? Especially we who work hard to earn money and not get commission on 2G or 3G dealings and other scams. What do we do?
So please all the preachers should preach somewhere else. Thank you.

Coming to the duty evasion part. Well what do you think the bikes have costed these people.The ones who own grey bikes. Have you people ever inquired? 10-12 lakhs for any 1000 cc or more bikes.Yes. Where is the duty evasion by these owners? nowhere! They expected the bikes to be clean and were taken for a ride by the dealers who provided fake Bill of entry's to them. These dealers are to be blamed!

Why did this happen? well because of lack of knowledge and lack of knowledge of rules. Have you ever tried to find the rules of import. Pre-2008, Motorcycle imports were BANNED! Yes banned! How did they come in? Well some on TR. and some by paying the fine once the bike landed on the port. Some people imported clean bikes by paying the duty as applicable on imported cars plus the fine. and others by fake TR certificates.

So yes a mistake has been made by the owners of not knowing the rules but there is no one to tell them the rules. especially back then. Even the customs website had no clear rule for this. And when they used to see bikes being used by people all around especially in movies like Dhoom, and no action being taken against them, they thought that importing bikes was allowed. Why didn't DRI take action against all these publicized bikes? None at all back then.

In short, the importers are to be blamed and not the owners. The money should be recovered from these importers who are now walking free.

Long Rant. Mods can remove any part they find wrong here. Thank you.

[insaneroller]

Note from the Team-BHP Support : Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this. Thanks

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Assume 10000 bikes with wrong papers. That would be what : 2-4L per bike?

That is a total of 400cr maximum total.

BBC News - India considers review of Mauritius tax treaty

It'll be way more than 2 to 4lac mate, depending on the papers.

[Pancham]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Let's not adopt an holier-than-thou perspective. Alot of us would have behaved the same way as those people if we would have found ourselves in the same situation. We're all humans. Imperfect. Fallible.

Well it was just my opinion. I know exactly what you are talking about and you and many others must be laughing at my previous post. No problems whatever suits you. Its just that sometimes its inevitable in a country like India to get things done without black money and under the table transactions. I understand that. But I feel many people take advantage of that and uses it as a bahana to evade taxes. If you are unhappy with the system and how things are working then try and be the change and not just support the corruption. Its all about pointing the fingers. Govt officials will say "I take bribe because they are willing to pay", common public will say " We have to pay otherwise the work wont be done".

Then again there is a strong legal system that is not supporting such things , so you tell me will it look nice if your sports bike gets towed away from your house by DRI or customs officials and then all that gossip starts in your neighbourhood.
I am not being a hypocrite. Its just corruption really stings me.

[coolclouds]

Originally Posted by Dr.Awesomeness

The mechanic in question is a revered one down south.

Is this the garage between MG Road and Chittoor road near Jos Jn? I know a guy there who does decent job since long time.