[16v100bhp]

Originally Posted by ECM

Last week when I replace plugs in my Baleno I saw one esteem in mass and it was fitted with LPG kit.The owner was almost feeling like this.............................................. .....................!This poor chap has replaced 3-4 silencors as such big backfires took a toll of them,can you suggest anything for him?Mass is not able to solve this problem for your info.

My cielo had a similar problem but the "bang" was actually from the OE air filter box. In LPG mode the enigine sucks in more air and finally when the filters couldnt provide what it wanted the box opens up slightly coz of the pressure and closes at the same instant causing a bang sound. Check out if the sound is coming from the induction rather than the exhaust.

Note from moderator: Kindly avoid quoting entire post

[16v100bhp]

Originally Posted by gigy

... but in santro its not able to sustain idle rpm with lpg. i have to increase the gas flow to make it run. now its not picking up speed as it does in petrol. on 4 th gear at 40kmph if i slam the accelerator the engine starts dying down.....

Hey guys, I have a santro fitted with LPG unit and am thinking of KandN conical filters for it. Is there a problem as gigy has mentioned above?? Please let me know!

[mail4ajo]

After so much of googling, reading technical journals, speaking to experts and checking out advanced LPG systems, I finally installed the so called closed loop system on my LPG kit.

A little background.
My car is a 2006 model. I installed a BRC open kit when the car completed 5000kms. I was getting typical LPG kit performance from the car for the last 7000kms. The major problem, I faced was tuning. I was not able to set the right gas mixture. If I set rich, the mileage dropped, If lean, pickup suffered.

That set to me think. Thats when our forum helped a lot. Spoke to a few people. However, no one I spoke had this system installed. I googled and read a few articles and installer websites.

When I was in the US last month, I met an Indian engineer who works on Ford and Lincoln. He showed me a few cars installed with the sequential multipoint propane injection system. Very advanced system with separate injectors for LPG.

Armed with this info, I called up Rohan Auto, distributors for BRC in India. I was set back hearing the cost, 60K. It has only been done on petrol Innovas till date.
Seeing one link in teambhp, I called one person in Delhi. He mentioned that all MPFI LPG kits in India were meant for being installed closed loop.He was able to give semi closed kits.

I later called one BRC dealer in Chennai who said sequential system for Alto was not feasible, However, he could make the kit semi closed with a steeper motor and ECU like box which takes pulses from TPS, O2 sensor and lamda sensor for 5.5K. I agreed and here is what I have:


ECU which reads pulses
from TPS,O2 and Lambda sensor

Stepper motor with manual tuning also


TPS, O2 sensor wires have been
cut to povide pulses to the ECU.

I am yet to pull the statistics of mileage. From initial feel, its more smooth than driving on petrol. Vid699, theres no jerking at all. I dont feel a marked difference from petrol like I felt before. Need to take the car on a highway drive to see her perfomance and also record FE.

I am relieved now as I dont have to run around to manually tune the gas flow. The flow changes based on my driving style. My kit has become intelligent.

[nicejits]

Hello Friends,

I am regular member of Team-Bhp from long time, I have almost read all the of CNG/LPG, I have 2003 Zen VXI (MPFI engine), my daily travel in Mumbai is 70km to my office, I am still confused abt LPG and CNG, As my daily travel is 70km, I am looking for cheaper fuel alternative to drive my car , I drives car mostly with on AC on, plz advice shd I go for CNG or LPG, I heard that cost of 1kg of CNG is 20Rs and in that zen will go 18km is that true ? also CNG refilling centers are more than LPG, plz help me to solve my queries

Thx in advance,

Regards,
Jitendra

[nicejits]

Hello Friends,

I am regular member of Team-Bhp from long time, I have almost read all the of CNG/LPG, I have 2003 Zen VXI (MPFI engine), my daily travel in Mumbai is 70km to my office, I am still confused abt LPG and CNG, As my daily travel is 70km, I am looking for cheaper fuel alternative to drive my car , I drives car mostly with on AC on, plz advice shd I go for CNG or LPG, I heard that cost of 1kg of CNG is 20Rs and in that zen will go 18km is that true ? also CNG refilling centers are more than LPG, plz help me to
solve my queries

Thx in advance,

Regards,
Jitendra

[mail4ajo]

There are so many threads on CNG-LPG comparision. Look at the various parameters and decide for your self.

[miraauto]

1) Can I get the same pick-up as petrol on LPG wth some fine tunning
ya u can get it but for that you have to install a timing advancer as well as try to use bigger size of mixer. maximum power loss on gaseous fuel is due the reduction of venturi. i run my car without mixer and gives unbelivable power which one can not notice.
2) while racing why the engine is not as smooth as on petrol
its impossible, on gas any car is more smooth than petrol. its just myth i think
3) I hope the sound while filling LPG is of no major concern
its normal due to pressure
4) Do I need to inform the Insurance company abt this??
ya sure
5) How long does it normally takes to full the tank (60 lts capacity)
8 to 10 min
6) Are there any specific checks that I need to follow on regular basis
*regularly clean air filter every 1K km, replace at 10K for better mileage and power
*replace spark plugs every 10K km.
*drain vaporizer oil every 5K km

7) Well the indicator provided for level of LPG on my dashborad does not work..mechnic says he will fix it along with the LPG filling proble. I hope this is not a major concern??
no no its not major concern dont worry about it
Well all said and done I except for some crancky noises and drop in pick-up I am happy with the LPG conversion. i expect to get the amt recovered in 8-10 mnths time. If you are not too crazy abt speed then converting LPG seem sto be the BEST available option...
Well friends anyone who can help me with my queries[/quote]

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

After so much of googling, reading technical journals, speaking to experts and checking out advanced LPG systems, I finally installed the so called closed loop system on my LPG kit.

Congrats ajo. i have absolutely no idea about these things right now, but i do hope they make some sense.

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

Thats when our forum helped a lot.

I seriously doubt that.

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

When I was in the US last month, I met an Indian engineer who works on Ford and Lincoln. He showed me a few cars installed with the sequential multipoint propane injection system. Very advanced system with separate injectors for LPG.

Are you sure these things are workable in India ?

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

Armed with this info, I called up Rohan Auto, distributors for BRC in India. I was set back hearing the cost, 60K. It has only been done on petrol Innovas till date.

Petrol innovas have been installed with far better kits at far lesser rates, i dont know abour BRC.

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

Seeing one link in teambhp, I called one person in Delhi. He mentioned that all MPFI LPG kits in India were meant for being installed closed loop.He was able to give semi closed kits.

I later called one BRC dealer in Chennai who said sequential system for Alto was not feasible, However, he could make the kit semi closed with a steeper motor and ECU like box which takes pulses from TPS, O2 sensor and lamda sensor for 5.5K. I agreed and here is what I have:


ECU which reads pulses
from TPS,O2 and Lambda sensor

Stepper motor with manual tuning also


TPS, O2 sensor wires have been
cut to povide pulses to the ECU.

I am yet to pull the statistics of mileage. From initial feel, its more smooth than driving on petrol. Vid699, theres no jerking at all. I dont feel a marked difference from petrol like I felt before. Need to take the car on a highway drive to see her perfomance and also record FE.

I am relieved now as I dont have to run around to manually tune the gas flow. The flow changes based on my driving style. My kit has become intelligent.

I do hope you made the right decision, ajo. please test your car in city as well as highway driving conditions & give us your feedback.
cheers

[mail4ajo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
After so much of googling, reading technical journals, speaking to experts and checking out advanced LPG systems, I finally installed the so called closed loop system on my LPG kit.

Congrats ajo. i have absolutely no idea about these things right now, but i do hope they make some sense.
Reply: Nothing hitech, EL. The ECU like box takes readings from TPS, Lambda and O2 sensor and alters gas flow as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
Thats when our forum helped a lot.

I seriously doubt that.
Reply: Seriously did EL. I got very basic information to start with. Thanks to all who helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
When I was in the US last month, I met an Indian engineer who works on Ford and Lincoln. He showed me a few cars installed with the sequential multipoint propane injection system. Very advanced system with separate injectors for LPG.

Are you sure these things are workable in India ?
Reply: Cost alone will not work....... Slightly hitech. Separate injectors for gas. Standalone ECU interacts with petrol ECU and works as a team. LPG is called propane in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo
Armed with this info, I called up Rohan Auto, distributors for BRC in India. I was set back hearing the cost, 60K. It has only been done on petrol Innovas till date.

Petrol innovas have been installed with far better kits at far lesser rates, i dont know abour BRC.
Reply: I am referring to the sequential multipoint LPG injection system. I think you are referring to the open loop one.

[kshastry]

Hi mail4ajo, can you provide a detailed breakdown of cost of your recent LPG kit installation (kit + installation)? Guess that would be a great deal of help to everyone here.

Also, can you give me the contact details of Chennai dealer who provided this kit... and also of that knowledgeble installer. Thanks a lot.

[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by kshastry

Hi mail4ajo, can you provide a detailed breakdown of cost of your recent LPG kit installation (kit + installation)? Guess that would be a great deal of help to everyone here.
Also, can you give me the contact details of Chennai dealer who provided this kit... and also of that knowledgeble installer. Thanks a lot.

My LPG kit with Torodial tank kit was done in Dec 2006. Cost me 20K with RTO endorsement. The recent upgrade to closed loop cost 5.5K.

If you are in Bangalore, try a dealer there so that you get support as well. PM me and I can give you email add of the BRC importer.

[miraauto]

hi ajo,
its good u have upgraded your kit to close loop system and getting some good results. But according to me its not of that much useful. becoz the o2 sensor which your lambda system uses is of petrol and not for gas. output of o2 sensor are different for different make of vehical. while you run your car on gas output generated by o2 sensor does not give precise output which it gives on petrol. its output remains same. i have system with me which shows me output of o2 senor and i have taken its reading in honda city in one of my customer. that means the system is working just now only on tps. it should be manufacturer specific and not same for all carf. you go and ask your retroffiter whether this close loop system changes with different car models. no its same for all.
if u will increase air now this lambda system will give you more excellent unbelivable result which imentioned you before

[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by miraauto

if u will increase air now this lambda system will give you more excellent unbelivable result which imentioned you before

Why does the ouput remain the same? If it does remain same, how will increasing air flow make a difference?
I seriously need to talk to you. Please PM me your number.

[mail4ajo]

I have heard that the spark plugs in LPG car get worn out quicker than in petrol. I just found out that in my car. My car has run only 8000kms on LPG. One look at the plugs and I asked them to be changed.

Is this normal? I havent noticed this on my old M800 with the kitchen kit. I read on NGK's website that due to the reduced cooling effect of LPG, plugs of one heat range lower than OE and reduced gap by 0.1mm is recommened.

But will it affect the drive on petrol? Iridiums plugs is an alternative, but more expensive.

[nitrous]

Iridium plugs can't stand LPG either.
ksethuram lost a set of OWS plugs because of the lean mixture(i think).