[laluks]

You do something like this with a car, probably somewhere you will get to use that tow hook, and get battle scars, than internet wisdom .






Probably that's why all other S Cross's are safe

[pavi]

Originally Posted by laluks

You do something like this with a car, probably somewhere you will get to use that tow hook, and get battle scars, than internet wisdom
Probably that's why all other S Cross's are safe

Hey buddy, is your S Cross back to shape? How is the work going on? Did Maruti engineers gave you any logical and acceptable explanation about the issue?

[laluks]

Originally Posted by pavi

Hey buddy, is your S Cross back to shape? How is the work going on? Did Maruti engineers gave you any logical and acceptable explanation about the issue?

Still waiting for parts, and once its available it will go for rectification.

[autoholic]

Originally Posted by Rshrey22

As mentioned by Dr.Naren, they are not the same and the earlier one is much more costly!

If you don't agree, just watch any of the Moderator Anshuman's off roading videos on his Youtube channel. The way they tow out stuck cars (including Duster which is a competitor to the S Cross and not just body on frame SUVs) from tricky situations will clear my point.

The tow points are meant to be used and are not there just for show!

Laluks did the right thing, otherwise the only thing he could have tried at that point would be classic pedal to the metal practice, which could have either made the situation worse or burnt the clutch or maybe both.

As you are quoting Dr.Naren, I would also like to post made by him earlier in this thread for your perusal.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Hmm, so this type of towing and the particular incident on video would potentially affect any car. It would be wrong to assume build quality of S-Cross is poor and Suzuki engineers are stupid .

I would surely like to hear from Anshuman sir too, his take on vehicle recovery during off-roading. I believe in many(not all) offroading recovery cases, the towed vehicle is running and providing power to the wheels and the pulling action helps in reducing amount of power/traction needed simultaneously helping the tyres to regain the lost traction.

Originally Posted by Sheel

So people up in the hills should not be towing their vehicles even if the need arises?

No, they should tow and must be towing as we speak, BUT, I guess they must be employing proper techniques and equipment. Again quoting some fellow bhpians(their posts attached in the end), I suggest the questionable technique used for towing was a major contributor in the failure of the part.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

This situation cannot be blamed on the owner as he has used a tow hook for what it is intended for - towing. In situations that warrant towing, precautions would be overlooked and manufacturers would provide an additional margin of safety to cater to lapses and situations that would certainly happen - jerks, bad driving, hills, descents, getting stuck again and more.

Given the obvious "not fit for purpose" nature of the tow hook and its "not so obvious purpose" mentioned in a vague corner of the owners handbook, Maruti should have affixed a warning message in a visible location

Looking at the owners manual while one is in a situation such as this is probably the last thing on most owner's minds.

As quoted by me in the posts of Dr.Naren, Dhanushs and others, the unpardonable jerk was in all possibility one of many, the tow hook was subjected to before it failed.

As for warning labels, my cousin's best friend fractured 4 of his fingers while closing the door of his R8, and I assure you, he is not suing Audi for not putting a sticker on the door for it being a potential hazard. The person accepted his mistake.

About reading the owner's manual, I may be the odd one here, very James May-ish , but, I do read the owner's manual of any vehicle that I buy. Specially for DIY and must know stuff, like, location of fuse box, jacking points, washer fluids and anything and everything to do in emergency situations. My Ritz manual clearly states that this tow hook is NOT meant for towing or being towed.

About precautions to be overlooked in emergency situations, may I ask to what degree. After how much deviation from standard can the supposedly good towing technique be called bad?

Well AMG, your posts strongly suggests that precautions were overlooked and lapses like- jerks, bad driving, hills etc all happened here, BUT, the manufacturer should have thought about it and made provisions for the same. Correct? Also as this part is called a towing hook/eye then it should hold good in any and all towing conditions. Right again? My humble suggestion to any and all vehicle manufacturers, rename the towing hook/eye as winching hook/eye.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

The video clearly shows that the damage was done inspite of being towed correctly. The brakes were applied post damage.

Request to be more observant before expressing your opinions.

Sir, my being extra observant is the reason for my unpopular opinions.

With regards to the car being towed correctly, I again would like to quote a (not to be taken seriously) manufacturer's operating manual, in guise of a warning they suggest - "When towing, pull away slowly and smoothly. If the tractive power is too high the vehicles could be damaged." The same is also suggested in the S-Cross manual(attached below). But who reads the manuals, never a Clarkson, maybe a May. I know it won't make any difference to your opinion but Dr.Naren, Dhanushs, Leoshahi, roy_libran, Sam_babushka had made the same observation of wrong towing technique, much earlier than I did.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I don't know that it is any comfort to know that Mercedes can be as bad as Maruti!

Whatever the name, elite or lowly, a tow hook should be good for towing. And it should be good for taking at least punishment too, because who knows what jerk it may have to put up with .

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Since Mercedes says not to Tow the vehicle using towing eyelet, it becomes a standard practice!

That is the message I am getting here unfortunately. Thankfully other brands have not read this manual except Maruti and they seem to have copy pasted it.

There is NO user error here at all Mr Owner of Scross.

it is a bad design and just because the user manual says Towing eyelet cannot be used for what it's there for in the first place, it does not make the company not liable for this stupid design. Make them pay for it.

Mercedes Benz, hmm, I know they are old, make high end cars, won f1 titles for last 4 years and lead this year too. So should we pay heed to what they suggest, whatever said, we are definitely not following what the Maruti manual suggests(Clarkson rule applies, come what May).

Below are the observations by many BHPians that suggest the towing technique was wrong and far from what is practiced during off-roading

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I don't think the front tow hook for any car is designed for Jerky long distance tows. Read: You have to use a kinematic tow rope. Not the usual ones available here. The jerks while towing cause serious damage to the chassis and drivetrain.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Sorry to say, but I strongly feel that the jerk was a brutal one. It should have been a gentle tug. It is the pickup and braking which makes towing a tricky business. As rightly pointed out by BHPian Audioholic, do check the apron and front cross-member's measurements.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

I think that first brutal tug compromised the structural integrity.
However, if this repair work is still in progress, please take down the video else MSIL will be within their rights to deny you a warranty claim.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Sheel ideally you shouldn’t even tow a jeep or an Offroader like you said, let alone a poor car. First of all the S-Cross isn’t designed to run in mud or deep rut. If, by chance you ended up there, you should ‘winch’ the car slowly up. And if you have no winch you should be using a kinematic tow rope.

This kind of tugging and jerky pulling is a strict no-no. Not only is it harmful to the car, if something breaks,it’s outright dangerous too.

Originally Posted by sam_babushka

Sorry, this was an incorrect towing method which caused the bumper to rip off. I have towed a Swift with my Bolero during my Mumbai-Leh-Mumbai driving trip, and although it was the first time for me, I knew that I had to ensure the line was taut before attempting to actually pull the Swift. Apologies if this is too direct, but it is the case here

[Kosfactor]

And so we conclude that the real use of the Towing Eyelet is for this.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...hook-cars.html (What are those colorful straps hanging off the rear tow hook of cars?)

I`m not ready to give up just yet, our friend needs Maruti to sit up and take notice and not to take him for a ride.

Emergency Towing eyelet means, that the vehicle cannot be flat towed behind an RV while you go on holiday (there are many vehicles that can do this and you need two eyelets for this), so instead it is for towing during emergency situations, say the wheels are stuck \ wheels are sheared off, or the car was on fire , does not matter - Emergency Towing eyelet is the key.

Let us assume that the driveline is completely jammed , a Towing eyelet should be strong enough for the vehicle to be pulled into a ramp.

In here, what you see is what happens during regular towing anywhere in our country, you get something strong enough not to snap and pull the vehicle, job done.

[sinharishi]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Interesting to note that other than the OP, nobody seems to have towed a SCross. Super reliable vehicle?

Regards
Sutripta

I wish I could pen down my experience with my S-Cross in an ownership thread but how do I take out time? When me and my Greyhound are happily munching miles on the highways with the odometer at 93,000 kms in just 2 yrs.

I will write a short summary here, I hope the mods and the OP won't mind it.

Has my car been super reliable? I had to arrange for a flatbed once when the wiring harness went kaput. Battery had to be replaced because it died a sudden death. Both times warranty was claimed.

S-Cross, a better built car? A dog ran into my car while I was cruising at 100 kmph, somewhere near Gadag on our trip to Hampi, but thanks to the awesome brakes I managed to reduce the speed of my car to 60 kmph. The bumper just got a minor scratch, without killing the dog. Also just recently my dad came in contact with a truck at speeds well over 100 kmph, thanks to the car and his quick thinking, he is alive today.

Cross country? Well here is the map attached to where all I have been to. The best one till date, was my honeymoon trip to the Spiti Valley.

[laluks]

Well that makes just two samples, one yours and one mine.

Statistics says 50% with that

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by autoholic

I would surely like to hear from Anshuman sir too, his take on vehicle recovery during off-roading. I believe in many(not all) offroading recovery cases, the towed vehicle is running and providing power to the wheels and the pulling action helps in reducing amount of power/traction needed simultaneously helping the tyres to regain the lost traction.

I do spend some time with Team Anshuman and have seen/ done many recoveries including the one on new Fortuner where the rear hook simply broke, but that was while taking out the Fortuner dug deep and on an incline. Sometimes, we use the power of the struck vehicle or just the winch, depends on the situation but Yes, mostly it helps to get power from the vehicle being towed. But you don't tow your vehicle on the main road keeping the towed vehicle with the engine running and in gear, it can be very risky to synchronise the speeds/ stops.

Coming to the present case, I don't know how many Km's had Laluks towed the car before this came out but the Jerk that we see on the Video does not appear so hard that it should shear the welding or the sheet the way it is. Now, we can continue to debate on who/ what is at fault infinitely but the first picture on this thread does not give any confidence. I don't see any bends on the member that came out, it has just snapped from the joint. To me, the sheet thickness does appear to be too thin for a durable joint. What Maruti mentions in the Catalog can be interpreted in the way we like but if that hook cannot even take a slight jerk, better they don't give this false feature.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by laluks

Well that makes just two samples, one yours and one mine.

Statistics says 50% with that

Please bring it down, the red circuit was my Brownie & I'm very very positive there're even more because some of them whom I know are not part of this group but in WA 1.6 owners

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by aargee

I'm very very positive there're even more because some of them whom I know are not part of this group but in WA 1.6 owners

Correct. Nobody had faced this issue in our WA group. I had pointed out the towing of BHPian Sree73's S-Cross too which was done very horribly and he too did not face anything like this. But, the point is all these were Old S-Cross.

I am curious to know if Maruti has compromised on quality or design in new S-Cross.

Laluks, is the towing hook attached only to that thin metal piece placed infront of front member ? I believe in Old S-Cross and other Maruti cars, towing hook will go inside the hole in front member and attached to member, side apron.

New S-Cross

Old S-Cross

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by autoholic

My Ritz manual clearly states that this tow hook is NOT meant for towing or being towed.

If the Tow hook is NOT meant for towing or being towed, pray what is the purpose of a Tow Hook? Request you to kindly post the exact screenshot from your Ritz manual since I think you're mistaken.

Originally Posted by autoholic

Sir, my being extra observant is the reason for my unpopular opinions.

With regards to the car being towed correctly, I again would like to quote a (not to be taken seriously) manufacturer's operating manual, in guise of a warning they suggest - "When towing, pull away slowly and smoothly. If the tractive power is too high the vehicles could be damaged." The same is also suggested in the S-Cross manual(attached below). But who reads the manuals,
Attachment 1813052

The S Cross Manual which you've quoted says "Do not use the frame hook for towing another vehicle."

It doesn't say it shouldn't be used to be towed.

There's a fundamental difference between the two statements, if you would be observant enough to notice.

[a4anurag]

Excerpts from S-Cross & Ritz Manual

S-Cross Manual (Point 2 is what was done by laluks sir)




*******

Ritz Manual

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

S-Cross Manual (Point 2 is what was done by laluks sir)

Do you have a similar screenshot of the Facelift S Cross' manual?? Would be interesting to see what it mentions.

IMHO, posting such images from pre-facelift model's manual doesn't make much sense because firstly, we know that the front member design has been altered in the facelifted model. Secondly, BHPian Sree73 has already mentioned how carelessly his pre facelift car was towed and still remained unharmed. So towing instructions may be different in pre facelift model which is irrelevant to the discussion here.

Regards,
Shashi

[laluks]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I am curious to know if Maruti has compromised on quality or design in new S-Cross.

Laluks, is the towing hook attached only to that thin metal piece placed infront of front member ? I believe in Old S-Cross and other Maruti cars, towing hook will go inside the hole in front member and attached to member, side apron.

It is only on the sheet metal. It does not screw in all the way to the side apron, it's all in the front member's thin sheet

See this picture.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Excerpts from S-Cross & Ritz Manual

S-Cross Manual (Point 2 is what was done by laluks sir)

Thanks anurag.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Do you have a similar screenshot of the Facelift S Cross' manual?? Would be interesting to see what it mentions.

Both manuals are same.

[deetjohn]

Sorry to see this laluks!

I think the photos on this page shared by Naren and you make it very clear. MSIL lifted the front end of the S-Cross during the facelift (quite literally) to make the car 'look' more rugged.

But it looks like they didn't think through it properly when it came to the tow hook screw. The travel and grip was limited to the front member alone and that compromised the whole thing. The screw travel needs to extend to the longitudinal beam of the sub-frame as well. Only then can it take the weight of the car properly.

This new design is akin to lifting a bottle of water by gripping the cork instead of holding its neck. The friction between the cork and the bottle neck (or the weld on the sub-frame here) isn't strong enough to take the weight of the bottle and the cork will surely come off if one were to swing the bottle a bit by holding the black screw alone.


But if the screw were to grip the longitudinal member of the sub-frame, it would have been able to take the weight of the car better. And with a factor of safety to accommodate extra load from jolts, shear stress, inconsistent braking etc.


I am actually surprised since it was a global facelift.