[laluks]

Originally Posted by lazy

laluks

Sorry to read about this.
Its enough to be a trouble outside of home, and then in that situation to realize that the car we purchased has a flaw, isn't pleasant at all.
Has MSIL reached out to help ?
Folks who are defending Maruti saying there was a jerk by the Scorpio, cable not correct, not a pro driver, etc. - please realize that the situation at hand is desperate, and then we search for proper cable, driver, winch etc.
Really?
Just because we want to defend our choice of car that's made structural compromises to save money or weight or both perhaps.

I always thought the S-Cross & Ritz are probably the best built Marutis, I think they probably are despite this. And this incident is simply a compromised decision taken for India made cars. Probably worth comparing with S-Cross export models if that has better structures here.

cheers
lazy

lazy, thanks for understanding the real scenario and empathizing.

The cars and the brands are not for ever, they are for a predefined period in our life. Experiences like this makes certain facts about them. Collectively we make judgements on the brands going further based on these experiences.

No, MSIL has not reached out to me.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by lazy

laluks
Folks who are defending Maruti saying there was a jerk by the Scorpio, cable not correct, not a pro driver, etc.
Just because we want to defend our choice of car that's made structural compromises to save money or weight or both perhaps.

Choice of Car / Defending Maruti? Absolutely Not! Speaking for myself, I have never bought a Maruti till date, simply because I can't bring myself to trust them. This case, further exposes the subtle reasons behind that mistrust. But, that inherent weakness, doesn't take away from the Scorpio Driver the blame here.
That driver used faulty technique at the start and most likely caused the entire damage that manifested itself over rest of the towing distance. This kind of towing is usually done with off-road vehicles, mostly having a ladder chassis and beefened up tow points, and only when it is necessary to overcome a stuck vehicle's inertia.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

I think the people in action here cannot be blamed much for poor towing technique. From the pics I saw, I guess the sheet metal is no thicker than 1.6 - 2 mm? Chassis members in ladder construction are mostly made with 3.6 mm thick steel. This car is a monocoque?

Having said that, the towing hook was not meant for this usage is mentioned in the owners manual.

Spike

[Surprise]

I don't know any technique, right or wrong. What all I would have done is connect it to the slot provided & pull it. As an end user, I would appreciate a product that stands for the abuse inflicted due to lack of correct technique. If one gets stuck in places like that, its difficult to find/hire professionals who can tow the vehicle.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by laluks

On the road to Niti Valley we have very bad segments, ditches, river crossings kind of. While we were returning back, we were noticing engine heating. Radiator leak, and decided to tow it as per the advise generally to the next town 5 to 10 kms away .

It was towed by a Scorpio with Tow rope and D shackle. Scorpio was none other than 5084 Express, India's most famous one

Mr HVK himself!

I dare not make a judgement as I do not have all the facts except that the cause is either shoddy build quality or an act of god!

[findviru]

Technique should not be an excuse for manufacturer to provide low quality structural member. This is an emergency towing and in such situation you may not get professional help all the time. If Hyundai can specify how to tow in their manual for such scenarios, why can't Maruti. Does it mean that Scross is not designed for such type of towing?
I was supporter of only Scross from Maruti beacuse of the build quality. After crash rating of Brezza, I am supporting it as well but this incident puts question mark on Maruti again.

[gururajrv]

laluks sir - this is indeed a very bad scene. Sorry about this ordeal. I own a Brezza and this makes me skeptical about the strength of the materials used in those areas that is not visible to our naked eye. MSIL should really take this thread seriously and work towards fixing a small problem which can lead to a disastrous end during the times a car is towed in instances where the engine is dead or electricals are dead, as the results could be catastrophic if it breaks during towing and car loses control.

Please let us know once your car is restored.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

I think the people in action here cannot be blamed much for poor towing technique. From the pics I saw, I guess the sheet metal is no thicker than 1.6 - 2 mm? Chassis members in ladder construction are mostly made with 3.6 mm thick steel. This car is a monocoque?

Having said that, the towing hook was not meant for this usage is mentioned in the owners manual.

Spike

The car is a unibody type, pretty much like all modern passenger cars.
Its not a body on frame type certainly and as you said the user manual says not to use this kind of towing.

The point which is unclear here is why provide a towing eyelet when it is not supposed to be used. If the manual says cross member can get ripped off, then image it injuring someone in the process.

The manufacturer has exposed itself by stating it in the user manual that towing eyelet is useless and can be dangerous if used , all the while providing the same for emergency use. If maruti is saying this in user manual of multiple cars, this is certainly a cost cutting measure when even a lot more inexpensive cars can provide a functional one.

[Nissan1180]

Anyway, all I want to say is that I traveled most of life in Maruti Suzuki built cars. Omni, Esteem, Alto etc. I've seen what they use to make their cars. Any person acquainted with a bit of material science knowledge would realize that they use compromised steel. Anyone familiar with the Auto industry would know that they are a big consumer of recycled steel material, which is usually shunned by Toyota, Tata or Mahindra.

When I had the first accident with the Esteem because a driver glazed (at <5kmph) against a truck with protruding wheels, the doors were torn. That was the moment I decided I won't ever buy a Maruti unless it was made somewhere else. Yes, their customer service is stellar. We had a 2006 Baleno and still have an Esteem. But all comes at a cost. Maruti Suzuki cars, except perhaps the Ciaz and Vitara, use the lowest quality steel that's available in the industry.

No, I can't support my statement with a crash test rating from Mahindra or Tata. But, I can do that by giving examples of innumerable people who buy these brands after they got into an accident. Airbags save, but they're not enough. Glad that the car of the OP can be salvaged. Thanks.

[Olympal]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

I don't know if my posting privilege will be revoked for writing this. It was earlier because I posted a comment "supporting Tata".
Anyway, all I want to say is that I traveled most of life in Maruti Suzuki built cars. Omni, Esteem, Alto etc. I've seen what they use to make their cars. Any person acquainted with a bit of material science knowledge would realize that they use compromised steel. Anyone familiar with the Auto industry would know that they are a big consumer of recycled steel material, which is usually shunned by Toyota, Tata or Mahindra.

When I had the first accident with the Esteem because a driver glazed (at <5kmph) against a truck with protruding wheels, the doors were torn. That was the moment I decided I won't ever buy a Maruti unless it was made somewhere else. Yes, their customer service is stellar. We had a 2006 Baleno and still have an Esteem. But all comes at a cost. Maruti Suzuki cars, except perhaps the Ciaz and Vitara, use the lowest quality steel that's available in the industry.

No, I can't support my statement with a crash test rating from Mahindra or Tata. But, I can do that by giving examples of innumerable people who buy these brands after they got into an accident. Airbags save, but they're not enough. Glad that the car of the OP can be salvaged. Thanks.

I used to have a Zen. After a very minor hit to the side by a steel bucket, not only the door but also the B-pillar had a deep bend in it.
More recently, a Baleno squeezed past my parked Polo. While my Polo had only scratches running along the sides, the Baleno had deep dents and scratches.
I definitely fell Maruti used a lower gauge of steel than other major manufacturers.

[discoverwild]

Probably the only car that I have recommended from Maruti till very recently. I did suggest the Brezza to a friend who wanted only Maruti after the crash results.

Thinking out loud, if the front member is actually the weak component here, how would it fare in a frontal crash on average city speeds? Could the tug from the Scorpio actually have a much higher impact than a head-on collision?

[locusjag]

Yikes. This is disappointing. S-cross, et tu? It's like Don Corleone's youngest son couldn't prove himself different from the wolf pack. It's like the apple never fell far from the tree.

And there is no question of doubting the Scorpio driver, if you ask me. A tow hook (and all its underlying bodywork) must fit the purpose it was built for. It's either fit or unfit. I can understand it getting ripped off like that if a huge truck or railway locomotive had tugged at it. Besides, aren't most towing and recovery vehicles similar to the Scorpio in terms of engine displacement, power etc.? Even if a typical recovery vehicle had attempted that tug, it would've ripped off.

[wanderer4x4]

Seeing this, Maruti should edit their owner's manual to say that the S Cross should not be towed and actually seal off the tow hook point and remove the tow hook from the tool kit.

And yeah, Maruti will be rubbing their hands in glee at this suggestion. Another chance at saving some cost by eliminating the tow hook itself.

And people said what? Carry a 20000 lbs kinetic tow rope? I'd say if it's the S Cross, just carry the contacts of some local bahubali. Muscle power only and no towing.

[searacer932]

It's a shame that the build quality of S-cross is so poor. I was having reasonable hope on Maruti post the crash test results of Brezza but even the Brezza, which is based on a new global platform, did not perform as well as Nexon, which is based on a 10 year old vista platform, in the crash test.

Coming to this specific incident, the supposedly bad technique is no excuse for the shoddy build quality. I was seriously considering the upcoming petrol S-cross but seeing this incident the S-cross is off my shopping list.

[autoholic]

Originally Posted by laluks

Here you go.

A possible sequence of events and conditions that lead to this failure-
1. The car was being towed up an incline via the provided tow hook.
2. While towing the vehicle you encountered some cattle on the road.
3. Both cars brake to let the cattle pass.
4. The driver of the S-Cross keeps on pressing the brake to prevent the car from rolling back.(unpowered car not rolling back on incline when the tow line is slack, means - brakes applied)
5. The Scorpio starts to move (too fast for a car towing another up an incline), while S-Cross's brakes are still engaged.
6. The resulting Tug-Of-War tore the S-Cross's front.

If you observe the video from 00:21 to 00:28, then you will notice a person exiting the Scorpio and walking back towards the front of S-Cross. His movements are akin to someone walking down a significant incline. Also at 01:04 you can see the S-Cross driver releasing the brakes to roll back and take out the slack in the tow line, which confirms that the cars are indeed moving up an incline.

About me, one of my cars is a Ritz and am not a fan of Maruti build quality. BUT, in the current situation, I totally blame the two drivers for the damage. The tow hook and its mounting point are not designed for this abuse.

Note : I am a little disappointed in fellow BHPians not making the necessary observations