[sudev]

Originally Posted by laluks

On the road to Niti Valley we have very bad segments, ditches, river crossings kind of. While we were returning back, we were noticing engine heating. Radiator leak, and decided to tow it as per the advise generally to the next town 5 to 10 kms away .

It was towed by a Scorpio with Tow rope and D shackle. Scorpio was none other than 5084 Express, India's most famous one

So before towing the car has suffered underbody and radiator damage? Hardly any other reason for car to overheat.

In my experience most of the people towing cars do not do so smoothly but with constant jerk and slack. In hills this is exacerbated with pulls to side putting tremendous loads.

That said it's sad to see such poor quality from Maruti premium product.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Do you have a similar screenshot of the Facelift S Cross' manual??

Couldn't find it. If you can find it (which I'm sure you can), please post it. Thank you sir.

Originally Posted by laluks

Both manuals are same.

Thank you sir for confirming. Any update from Maruti on the issues? What's the current status of the car?

[laluks]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Thank you sir for confirming. Any update from Maruti on the issues? What's the current status of the car?

I just checked the page numbers from your post in the manual I have and they are the same.

Car is with me.

Parts are ordered from my trusted MASS. Its awaited. Since next week is Diwali, I will be giving for replacements after that week.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

That said, Lalu, I don't think the front tow hook for any car is designed for Jerky long distance tows. Read: You have to use a kinematic tow rope. Not the usual ones available here. The jerks while towing cause serious damage to the chassis and drivetrain.

Dhanush,

While I am sure you mean well - but I am Sorry I completely disagree. Nothing alarming in the video. The camera accentuates the effect. Of all the drivers, you can trust the HVK

I have had my 2008 Swift VDi towed almost 40km with a broken sump in rural UP by a local Bolero camper. What I saw in the video was the same as my experience over 40km given the unpredictability of traffic in those parts.

My car did another 75k km after that towing, with no issue whatsoever.

This is the first use case a car designer must idiot-proof when designing the towing point and selecting materials for the same. This is either a badly designed vehicle or more likely a one-off manufacturing defect within Maruti.

Of all points in the vehicle lifecycle, the highest chance of meeting untrained (even if well meaning) people is when one is in an accident. Parts that function in this context, such as this tow hook, need to be over-designed to take it in its stride. There is simply no excusing that.

[ssjr0498]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Just my humble opinion, but I think that the towing point of a consumer vehicle should be able to take the stresses it might reasonably be expected to take. That includes jerks that might make a pro wince. The guy behind the wheel is likely to be the owner, not a pro.

I also vouch for this! That jerk from the scorp is nothing compared to the numerous "jerks" that my honda city has been through. 18yr old car has been "jerked' enough and more brutal one's, never have I seen any such thing.

My clutch cable had broken on my travel from kolkata to blr and my honda city was loaded with luggage and my parents. I was towed by a mahindra bolero for about 150kms, through some of the shittiest part of the road and all i was doing was chilling inside the car with the ac on while the mahindra "jerked" the daylight out of the car...

Have seen many other cars, including the old zen, i20 and so many more being towed ridiculously

It is unbelievable that the "cross member" just sheared off like a piece of paper...

Jai ho Suzuki!

[kpzen]

Dear Lalu,
Really sorry to read about the incident.
As a fellow Scross owner, was following the sequence of incident and discussion here since it was posted.
Initially, I felt the towing process was absolutely wrong and too harsh for the car. (Cattle crossing made it even worse).
But then I realized that similar thing happened to me once in the past and was towed by Scorpio (gd1418) without any issue. (32kms of towing).

Coming from the manufacturing background, it was hard for me to believe that Suzuki R&D engineers shall commit such blunder that too with a global tried and tested Scross model.

So, touched base with few contacts in MASS body shop and was informed that in last 2 years such incidents of tow hook ripping off the bumper support have increased. This could mainly be due to sheet thickness reduction or poor welding/bolting.

To my knowledge, Scross is one of the best from Maruti stable in terms of build quality. They have just replicated the global model without any significant changes for India.

Here's an interesting info from the Scross Europe user manual regarding the towing method.
So, its either Maruti hasn't tested it properly or they have just copied the words from user manual of other Maruti models.

Good luck with the repair and drive on.

Regards
KP

[Thad E Ginathom]

It's not often one can post a joke on a pure motoring thread, but this one occurred to me:

Guy has to go to an interview the next day, and finds that his suit is looking bad. Goes to the High Street; One Hour Dry Cleaning. The cleaning man says, "OK, Sir: it will be ready this time next week."

"What? Seven days? So What's with the One-Hour Dry Cleaning, then?"

"That's just the name of the shop."

Tow hook: Just the name of the thing.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Here's an interesting info from the Scross Europe user manual regarding the towing method.
So, its either Maruti hasn't tested it properly or they have just copied the words from user manual of other Maruti models.

This is an interesting observation, one that was also called out a bit earlier in the thread.

That said, even if the front wheels are placed on a dolly, the net towing force would be unchanged, wouldn't it? With the tow rope being attached to the tow hook. The dolly wouldn't change the load/friction involved. At most, the angle of the towing force would change a bit with the nose of the car raised, but that should be well within any designed margin of safety/error.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Dhanush,

While I am sure you mean well - but I am Sorry I completely disagree. Nothing alarming in the video. The camera accentuates the effect. Of all the drivers, you can trust the HVK

Hi Phamilyman,

Sorry, if I got it wrong for you there.

I've done worse things with tow ropes, chains, normal ropes.. tugging and pulling! With the Jeep, its crazy since even the frame is not spared considering what I put it through. But with my car too (years back) taking it to unimaginable places. With the Jeep, winning the competition is more important and with the car, getting out of the situation is more important than the car.

What I'm trying to convey in the post you quoted is that the RIGHT WAY of towing a car is by using a rated kinetic tow rope and with a proper damper on it. Also, keep the slack as low as possible. We've all done it the wrong way, and only because it didn't break doesn't mean its the right way.

Well, if you want to do everything right, don't tow it, flatbed it. . Especially a light built monocoque. However, in this case, seems like the car is too fragile and unforgiving and not fit for towing. If the sheet metal is indeed as thin as lalu says it is, I don't think even a Kinetic tow rope can save it. After all, it does need to transfer the 'pull' albiet without jerks.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

This kind of tugging and jerky pulling is a strict no-no. Not only is it harmful to the car, if something breaks,it’s outright dangerous too.

I mentioned this so that we all can keep in mind that it 'might' break.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

car designer must idiot-proof....need to be over-designed to take it in its stride. There is simply no excusing that.

Those two words are key- especially in a country like ours which doesn't have standardization and relies heavily on juggaad.

Originally Posted by kpzen

So, touched base with few contacts in MASS body shop and was informed that in last 2 years such incidents of tow hook ripping off the bumper support have increased. This could mainly be due to sheet thickness reduction or poor welding/bolting......Good luck with the repair and drive on.

This is what I wanted to read in the thread. Thanks kpzen!
Problem is, OP (and other reading this) might be apprehensive the next time he goes to a remote location.
Note: I used the word 'wanted' intentionally. I might have not typed 'wanted' if there was an unreasonable towing method used for the situation. Even I'd have done the same (100/100 times) if I was in the same situation.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

"What? Seven days? So What's with the One-Hour Dry Cleaning, then?"

"That's just the name of the shop."[/indent]
Tow hook: Just the name of the thing.

[kpzen]

Another observation :
European Scross (pre-facelift) comes with an additional cushion on the front support. (Roughly marked in red)
Don't think it will have any significant impact while towing but shows some value engineering was done for the Indian version and should be applicable to Facelift version as well.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I guess "value engineering" is the jargon. Cheap engineering is the reality.

Also maybe bad engineering. Shouldn't it be designed to fail without causing so much damage?

[sumitsinha0280]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Another observation :
European Scross (pre-facelift) comes with an additional cushion on the front support. (Roughly marked in red)
Attachment 1814255

Similar cushion type material was noticed on Kizashi too, which was an Import.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post4483982 (S-Cross' suspicious build: Towing rips out the tow hook & front members)

So definitely, MSIL's bean counters are working overtime here.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Another observation :
European Scross (pre-facelift) comes with an additional cushion on the front support...

That cushion is a critical bit of the actual 'bumper' and intended to absorb some of the impact force in a frontal collision. The outer plastic thingy we usually call the bumper is actually just the bumper cover in reality. There was a picture somewhere on this thread or another that explains it at component level.

What most cars get here is a joke of a metal frame, a couple inches of air - if 'value engineering' even permits that air pocket -
and a few millimetres of outer plastic cover. We're all driving around with almost nothing between our car's radiators and open air.

A sobering thought if one has the misfortune of being at the receiving end of an impact from such a contraption.

[i74js]

To me, its the blind faith of Indian consumers on the brand Maruti which has made the Indian market a milking cow for Suzuki Motors.

No doubt they are on top of the Indian buyers mind with continuous update and introduction of new models at regular intervals; the company is equally on top of Indian laws and regulations around Indian auto sector.

This is nothing but a shameless behavior by a car manufacturer to blatantly cheat customers making use of laxity of Indian laws around such business practices. How can one let go of a company on the premise that they have announced / published something in the manual that a particular component is not meant for towing?

There are certain functional pieces which are required may be once or twice in the useful life of a vehicle. Those things are meant to perform and serve the desired purpose.

I fail to understand the concept of "value engineering" for such components.

Disgusting !