Team-BHP > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st June 2021, 11:34   #136
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 4,642
Thanked: 12,393 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
ECU's have been there for almost 2 decades in Indian cars.

if the ECU will not switch off the ignition will also not cut, which is a pretty common occurrence.

I think either you have confused yourself about which ECU I refer to, or did not understand what I explained. When I mention ECU, it stands for Electronic Control Unit, and not Engine Control Unit(which is otherwise also referred to as ECM or engine control module). When you speak about ECUs being in cars from two decades, you must be referring to the engine controller. That was the first ECU in most cars and yes, it came to India around 2000. Hence, your whole assessment is based on this logic.

The Engine controller has come a long way from the past two decades and is usually provided by suppliers like Bosch, Magnetti, Delphi who have mastered the art over the past two decades. Like you say, if the engine controller is faulty, then the ignition(or the engine) would not switch off if its stuck in an active state.

However, my friend, the modern car isnt so simple. The ECM is one of the many ECUs in the car. A car like the Safari could have 10-15 ECUs for various functions of the car. Where I work, we have 100+ ECUs in our vehicles. And the networking is pretty complex. If one of these 15 ECUs in the Safari has an issue, it would drain battery. It could be the infotainment ECU running in the background, with only the display being switched off. It could be the keyless entry controller which is not switched to passive mode. It could be the body electronics controller, which is still active due to some shutdown check which has not happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Unless this is that 1 in a million case, I wouldn't bet on this . Let's wait for the TASS to diagnose and we will know, instead of contemplating.
One in a million case is relatable to random failures of electronics. But if there is buggy software, or an architectural issue which is causing this problem, then that would not be one in a million. Especially when there could be just around 10k Safaris on the road by now at most. After explaining so much, I believe I am not contemplating, but speaking out of experience. As for TASS to diagnose it correctly, I have also explained why it isnt so easy for them to do it. End of the day, they would either end up replacing components by trial and error, or perform some software updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Isn't there a separate fuel cut off solenoid in place for diesel engines?

Given the right circumstances, a diesel engine does not need injectors either - aka - runaway. .
The ECU would stop sending injection pulses to the injectors upon shutdown. After this the injectors should not inject fuel. If this part of the software has an issue, then its a problem. Normally the injection pulses are quite complex with more than one injection happening per combustion cycle per cylinder. Hence, its not just a simple ON-OFF command. In a modern diesel engine, say in 2021 this would be the rarest of rare scenario.

Last edited by audioholic : 21st June 2021 at 11:54.
audioholic is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 21st June 2021, 11:43   #137
Senior - BHPian
 
Kosfactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: bangalore
Posts: 2,256
Thanked: 5,588 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
True, what you have stated could be a 1 in a million scenario and ECU's have been there for almost 2 decades in Indian cars. Could be a rare occurrence, since if the ECU will not switch off the ignition will also not cut, which is a pretty common occurrence.
Isn't there a separate fuel cut off solenoid in place for diesel engines?

Given the right circumstances, a diesel engine does not need injectors either - aka - runaway. I have seen it for real on a ford TDCi, scary stuff and creates quite a spectacle.
Kosfactor is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 27th June 2021, 01:04   #138
Newbie
 
hsingh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Lancaster, UK
Posts: 14
Thanked: 17 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Apparently, Tata's local dealership is afraid of we sending an email to higher up. At the time of delivery of our Persona Edition, we were given 1 remote key and a manual key. Even, after chasing the sales and TASS teams, we were not informed about the missing key. Only after a month later, we were informed about the Key shortage, and were promised to get the missing key in the next couple of months.

I sometimes feel, Tata dealerships often focuses on sales, they just want to sell there car, not the emotion of owning a car. I remember the initial FIAT-Tata days, and frankly they haven't quite changed much.

XUV's teasers seems to be rather direct to the existing cars in this segment.
hsingh is offline  
Old 29th June 2021, 13:56   #139
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Thrissur
Posts: 6
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

As the lockdown has eased up, the car was finally picked up by TASS, yesterday late in the eve. Seems it has become a waiting game for now.
Pics and video attached.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fiy...ew?usp=sharing


Still adamant about pushing for a replacement. We'll see what lies ahead.
Attached Thumbnails
Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow1.jpeg  

Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow9.jpeg  

Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow25.jpeg  

Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow12.jpeg  

Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow13.jpeg  

Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue-safaritow32.jpeg  

soorya_sKa is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 9th July 2021, 15:39   #140
BHPian
 
raamki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 392
Thanked: 88 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Hi soorya, any update on what is happening with the car since it was picked up?
raamki is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 25th July 2021, 15:11   #141
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Thrissur
Posts: 6
Thanked: 55 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamki View Post
Hi Soorya, any update on what is happening with the car since it was picked up?
Sorry for the late reply, we got swamped by IRL stuff.

The car was serviced and "brought back to standards" as per TAMO and given back to on July 14th, with some service goodies as bribe. We reluctantly agreed to accept it, as they flat out denied replacing the car. Apparently, "replacement is out of their purview/policy" !

Again, all was fine for nearly a week, when suddenly out of the blue, some new issues have cropped up, altogether by themselves.

1. Wipers :
The wipers started shuddering a lot, the blades formed many lines after a wipe, and the windshield becomes misty for a second which affects visibility to a great extent.The nozzle(Front) doesn't spray water properly.
2: ICE Issues
There is a screeching sound intrudes the speakers whenever the horn is used in conjunction with the FM radio.
3: Sunroof
The sunroof started malfunctioning when the wipers are in use. As in, each time the wiper is in use, the sunroof annoyingly opens slightly and closes. The sunroof switch works intermittently. When trying to close the sunroof, it closes and bounces back a bit.

We reported the same to TASS, and they sent a team on 23rd July. They have promptly replaced the Wiper blades, Sunroof switch unit(whole assembly) and the mechanic informed us that the screeching noise in the ICE is indeed a QC issue, that will be "reported" to TAMO.

For now, we are still skeptical about the car as the list of issues so far has never hit zero. Hope it will, one day. Will update more if anything new "occurs" !
soorya_sKa is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 25th July 2021, 20:23   #142
BHPian
 
padmrajravi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kozhikode
Posts: 819
Thanked: 3,141 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

This is getting even more serious than the Aria fiasco. Such a good package let down by QC issues. Fortunately, Safari looks good and is a great package on paper. That will help it keep staying the consideration set for buyers. But from what I heard till now, it is like taking a lottery. And the winning percentage seems to be too low.
padmrajravi is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 28th July 2021, 20:52   #143
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Sohna, Gurugram
Posts: 24
Thanked: 62 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varun_HexaGuy View Post
I will. Once due diligence is done before calling out. Can't come unarmed and caught off-guard. Don't even think of remotely anything from a Tata as a replacement for your Storme. They don't deserve our years of hard earned savings. Something as expensive as this is an aspiration for a middle class and upper middle class families like ours and companies like these treat us to shit like these.

Screams of incompetence to me from the company. I have a Tata currently and after 4-years and not even 35k kms on the odo, repenting my decision of splurging my father's hard earned money on a car like this. Since day-1, I've been brushing it off as "niggles will come your way, it's a machine afterall". After what my father has experienced yesterday with our car, I can't trust my car anymore. Putting the user of the vehicle at risk. But at what cost? Lousy QC standards for a part or substandard quality for a crucial part which is integral in proper functioning of a vehicle.

I've never hoped for more. After paying 22-lacs, if I'm not even given a car which is sorted fundamentally, then I don't even know what to say. I've been ignoring almost everything off-late. But what happened yesterday isn't something I can turn a blind eye to.

Wow! That was quite a scathing attack.

I hope you are now past the due-diligence stage, and would love to know what made Varun_HexaGuy become Varun_NoTataGuy
SNA411 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th September 2021, 11:21   #144
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 439
Thanked: 1,075 Times
Default Re: Brand new 2021 Tata Safari | Breakdown on delivery day, problems continue

Saw a video been shared lately.

Vehicle has faults but here the I was able to find that dealership is even bigger fraud.(Dada motors Ludhiana, fellow bhpians please be careful while dealing with this dealership)

Safari:


Tiago:



Pains to see that new owners have to go through such experience even after paying their hard earned money.
SideView is offline   (6) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks