[GTO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaeR-CXLkXo

Tata damaged its reputation with troublesome cars like the Indica, Indigo, Aria etc. It rebuilt a part of that with sorted models such as the Nexon & Hexa, but again, the Harrier & Safari are ruining it. I simply cannot understand why Tata is unable to consistently build trouble-free Harriers & Safaris, and why these products were brought to the market before they were fully ready.

Just thinking aloud why Tata is unable to solve the Harrier / Safari niggles. I would've thought it's so easy after 2+ decades of building cars and outsourcing so very much! Hell, the engine is from FCA, the AT gearbox is from Hyundai, the platform was borrowed from Land Rover...in my opinion, Tata had it so much easier when such major + critical components are ready for use.

How could they mess up the build, quality, software, electricals & ICE so much? It's like the kid who was given a special pass to do just 30% of his homework, but still couldn't do a satisfactory job. If a brand new car has such issues, I shudder to think of how these poorly built cars are going to age once they have 50,000 - 100,000 km on the odometer.

Soorya Kumar sends this information in on behalf of his cousin, via our share page!

The summary from my cousin's perspective (owner of the vehicle) is as follows :

⦁ I had booked a Tata Safari from TAFE Access, Coimbatore on 3/3/2021 (XZA+ variant).

⦁ The delivery date as allotted by the showroom was 18th Apr 2021.

⦁ The car failed to start upon delivery @ 11:00 AM. Did not recognise the smartkey as it 'was out of range'. Replaced the smartkey battery, but that was of no use. The service personnel resorted to a jump start by hooking the car up with a Harrier, in the showroom.

⦁ At the temple, the car started jerking when switching between Park <-> Neutral <-> Drive gears and the MID displayed "transmission, drive system malfunction". The reversing cam display never worked in reverse gear, but the reversing display started working in DRIVE mode!! It was a total malfunction .

⦁ The brand new Safari is towed back to the showroom immediately, as the showroom personnel had followed us in the Harrier to the temple (in case of any emergency). Time is 01:45 PM.

⦁ They take apart the car piece by piece to search for the issue, but to no avail till 4:00 PM. They decide to check the OBD codes and find some issue behind the glovebox = an electrical short.

⦁ Car is given back, apparently the problem is solved. The time is around 6:30 PM. I test-drove the car and found it to be working fine. No invoice or documentation provided for the same.

⦁ After a couple of days of smooth driving, out of the blue, the ICE shows the reverse cam display when driving forward. Date = 21st Apr '21.

⦁ Called the service centre. They picked up the car on 22nd Apr, rectified the problem and promised that there won't be issues anymore. They did not clarify what the problem was...simply told me that it was 'some loose connection'. The service invoice is attached.

⦁ Spoke to the Customer Care Manager, Passenger Vehicle Business Unit, TAMO who still cannot explain the actual cause. They simply deflect the conversation whenever the topic of replacement is brought up by saying "it won't happen again".

⦁ The car saw more idle time as strict lockdown measures came into effect. Randomly, the MID used to show 'smartkey out of range' when the engine was off, on May 2 and May 10.

⦁ But cranking up the car seems to rectify it, making the procedure of locking the car when it is parked unnecessarily tedious.

⦁ I decided to wait for the lockdown to ease up before going to the service centre.

⦁ On 22nd May '21, when I started the car, the MID threw out another couple of malfunction alerts that included Auto-hold, hill-hold, drive system and transmission system malfunction. The car simply refuses to switch gears, just like day ONE and refuses to move. Pics and video of the same are attached.

⦁ Called TASS, they promise to send a team of experts to check it out on 24th May.

⦁ On 24th May, a sales rep from Pollachi comes to my house alone, checks the car out, reports that the issue exists to higher personnel and tells me that the lockdown situation has made getting a towing vehicle quite difficult. I make my own personal inquiries and sure enough, tow vehicles apparently have difficulty getting an e-pass.

In all honesty, between car enthusiasts, this car stinks of being a lemon and TASS just won't acknowledge it. Why does TATA deliver such a malfunctioning product to its valuable customers?

[GTO]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line to Tech Stuff!

[akash_v12]

What is going on with Tata? I've potentially seen atleast 5 new Harriers/Safaris having faced issues right after delivery on the forum itself. What's seemingly even worse is that TaMo is sending cars even though they might not have passed the QC properly too.

Even though I'd still recommend Tata to anyone, it's these kinds of issues that make the experience sore for the consumer, especially when it's an enthusiast.

But, the icing on the cake is that if you don't know the solution, atleast let the customer know. What's the point of blocking an e-mail from a person who buys your (supposedly?) flagship product after paying close to 25L. You know that this will escalate, so there is practically no point blocking the e-mails. Or is it that management at TaMo knows that there is a much bigger issue with the Safaris which they might not be willing to speak out about.

Right now, the only thing that can be done is to tweet/mail to one of the biggies at Tata and hope and pray that you're going to get this sorted ASAP after the lockdown.

[RavSam]

The above issue does ruin the brand image of Tata Motors no matter how many stars the safety ratings it gets and how good the build quality is.

Safari should have been a 'almost' zero problem car after the Harrier owners' thorough testing and feedback. The day a problem arises in a brand new car, the mindset changes from "Wow! I bought this car!" to "Why did I buy this car!" in an instant unless one truly loves the car with it's "Quirks and features". Cars are an emotion!

The 0 to 3 star cars would be as safe a 5-star car if it just sits there in the service center.

People buy Maruti Suzuki, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai (bar the steering braking issue) cars because they run reliably!

I was seriously thinking about buying Tata Tiago but then after a lot of research and moving back and forth between Tiago, Ignis and Spresso (heheh!) I got the Ignis because I didn't want to deal with such a headache if ever it arises so soon into the ownership period.

Agreed that even these cars have issues but considering the volume that they sell, the lemon percentage is less.

I as an Ignis buyer worry about rats eating my car wires, scratches, dents, crashing into something -if someone points that out - and not about whether my car would run today (unless the rats get too adventurous!).

Would I buy a Tata ever? Probably yes. Right now, their Nexon (Petrol & Diesel) and Altroz (Diesel) only seem like great choices. Which were out of my budget when choosing.

[Varun_HexaGuy]

Man, I'm seriously sick of Tata Motors now. They simply aren't mending their ways around. If they can't adapt and save themselves, then they don't deserve a chance at getting a fair shot.

IMO, Tata Motors should just stick to making CVs and be happy with it. As a Tata Owner for over 8-years now and having owned two of their cars (entry level car and their flagship not so long ago), it's not as rosy and easy to live with one. I'm just tired of their antics now. Keyboard warriors and Tata fans may kill me for calling out, but I'm so done with Tata. They've had their fair share of chances to get it right. They're struggling to do it right since 20-years now. In a market which is ever growing and adapting so quick, it won't take long for Tata to loose out on their current market share if they don't adapt.

Originally Posted by RavSam

People buy Maruti Suzuki, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai (bar the steering braking issue) cars because they run reliably!

I was seriously thinking about buying Tata Tiago but then after a lot of research and moving back and forth between Tiago, Ignis and Spresso (heheh!) I got the Ignis because I didn't want to deal with such a headache if ever it arises so soon into the ownership period.

Glad you got an Ignis. Ignis is definitely a lot superior to the Tiago in almost every aspect, feels money well spent and is a lot more car for your money. Tiago doesn't have anything else in its favour apart from a 4-star safety rating. The price tag isn't justifiable anymore either. Ignis isn't a bad car per say in this regard either. A respectable 3-star rating in the Global NCAP is decent for the segment.

[gkveda]

I am dreaming to see some good comments about Tata Cars since several years but looks like my dream never comes true.

If at all, something good has to be written about Tata cars, it is just about build and space and few star ratings. (I believe, safety stars are applicable only when cars run on the road.) Other than these two, there is nothing called GOOD about their cars. As a trend, we see at least once in 20 days, there will be a new thread on new Tata cars about series of issues faced on delivery day, or in the temple or max, next day morning while starting the car.

Coming to this particular issue, if I were to be the customer, I would not have taken the delivery at all. How can anyone be confident about a car that does not start even before delivery?

As next steps, I think the owner has to just write to highest level to TATAs and ask for a replacement.

The negotiation should be nothing short of replacement of car without a single extra penny paid by the customer.

[AMG Power]

Be Indian, Buy Indian the faux patriots said,

Mahindra or Tata, help Indians earn their bread,

But very often, the warning lights glow red and the car is dead,

And suddenly you don’t see any patriots around as they’re busy hiding their head.

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by gkveda

Coming to this particular issue, if I were to be the customer, I would not have taken the delivery at all. How can anyone be confident about a car that does not start even before delivery?

+1.
You have echoed my thoughts. Jump starting a car on delivery day! Seriously?

Building safe cars is great, but Tata should realise reliability is as important as safety, if not more. Infact isn't reliability linked to safety? And when you have after sales service as poor as this, things can't go further downhill. The owner of this Safari has a long battle ahead of him for sure. I really feel sorry for him. If esclating the matter to Tata officials of higher cadre doesn't work, it's better for him to approach the consumer forum provided he has enough proof (communication emails, pictures, video clips, job card details etc.) to support his claims.

[Aaroah]

The Incontrol Pro Duo infotainment on my friend's 4-Month-old Velar conked off and the whole unit had to be replaced. It seems to me that Tata-JLR is a match made in heaven w.r.t to reliability at least.

[audioholic]

Without bashing Tata any more, I feel what they need is to get the basics right. A reliable powertrain which wont leave the owner stranded makes a big deal in improving the ownership experience. Niggles like gadgetry not working or some other minor issues can be passable especially when you have above average levels of sophistication. Quality issues like a leaking sunroof can also be remarked as one-off. But the basics must be rock solid and should not cause such issues, especially when the owner has paid a lot of money for it.

A Bhpian friend of mine also mentioned this point of the engine and transmission being externally sourced. Since I belong to the same industry, whenever we have a proven engine and a gearbox(I unfortunately dont have an idea on the Hyundai Transmission) already in our hands, it takes out a lot of burden on the R&D team, so that they can focus on intensive testing and calibration to sort out niggles and teething issues. But here it looks like Tata is overwhelmed by the increased electronics and things are going haywire. To handle such issues, it also requires a good amount of competence at the dealer level and not just replacing things by trial and error.

Since I believe Tata Motors would read this thread and immediately offer some resolution to the owner, all I would like to say is:
1. Learn a thing or two from the Japanese and get the basics right, before loading up a car with high-tech stuff.
2. Take each of these niggles, make detailed root cause analysis and address the issues at the root. You could do everything to make the owner write a happy note in the end on how Tata resolved the issues, but that initial experience is something I would personally hate on a brand new car.

It sort of explains why the Japs are very conservative when it comes to adding too many gizmos. First they master the key components of the car, and then add other stuff over time through minor facelifts. What is pretty obvious is that they hardly change the basics over the product lifecycle. Are they niggle free? Not exactly. But do they leave you stranded on the road? Very very rarely.

The Germans are on the other side of the spectrum. They will over-engineer their cars, load them up with all sorts of tech, but at least in their key markets like Europe or USA, the after sales technicians are all very well trained and equipped to handle issues. Perhaps in India thats not always the case, but having interacted with a few service technicians in Germany, they are well trained and pretty decently qualified. What is more, they are really PASSIONATE about vehicles. Thats what would really change the experience. In India in general, not limited to Tata most service mechanics and staff look at the car like some vegetable. They do their best, and when they cant, pass the buck. If there is a passionate bunch of people, they would really investigate the issue and themselves reach out to the required people in HQ and arrive at a solid resolution. Hence, it is important to ramp up aftersales when Tata ramps up the tech offering inside the car. At least then, even if a niggle turns up, it would be resolved in one shot rather than repeated visits to the service center, such email exchanges and rant on social media.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Be Indian, Buy Indian the faux patriots said,

Mahindra or Tata, help Indians earn their bread,

I never knew that other brands had employed a foreign workforce in their plants. But have come across such comments across social media recently.

[TrackDay]

This seems to be a bad start with the car failing from delivery itself and jerks on the way to the Temple. Taking a new car apart is not for the faint of heart. I hope this ordeal is sorted out as soon as possible. It has been a while since the Harrier has hit the market and since the Safari is just an extension of the same, there should be basically no errors by now. But it seems that is not the case !

Originally Posted by audioholic

It sort of explains why the Japs are very conservative when it comes to adding too many gizmos. First they master the key components of the car, and then add other stuff over time through minor facelifts. What is pretty obvious is that they hardly change the basics over the product lifecycle. Are they niggle free? Not exactly. But do they leave you stranded on the road? Very very rarely.

.....but at least in their key markets like Europe or USA, the after sales technicians are all very well trained and equipped to handle issues. Perhaps in India thats not always the case, but having interacted with a few service technicians in Germany, they are well trained and pretty decently qualified. What is more, they are really PASSIONATE about vehicles. Thats what would really change the experience. In India in general, not limited to Tata most service mechanics and staff look at the car like some vegetable. They do their best, and when they cant, pass the buck.

This exactly the issue and hitting the nail on the head regarding service and repairs. Very few service centers (across all major brands) have senior mechanics or people who know a thing or two about cars. In order to maintain profits, well experienced folks are often replaced with entry level technicians. It is okay if a car is simple and plain jane with normal everyday mechanicals, but in this age and era of cut throat competition the only way to keep their head out of the water is to introduce as many gizmos as possible in their cars. This leads to more complex problems. Also there should be a system for service centers to hook up to the HQ / R&D department of the brand in cases of such repairs where things are out of their hands.

[drjanakpatel]

I recently bought safari XZA. I also faced some issues with my new car. I had to slam the doors to close it, rear ambient light not working and DRL has a mind of its own. Probably these issues would be solved at first service (promised by the SA). But my my issues are miniscule to what this guy is facing. As someone correctly said, I was wondering why did I buy this car. I can only wonder what this guy is going through after spending 25 lakhs.

[sandeepmohan]

Unbelievable! With so much modern technology going into designing and manufacturing these cars, how can serious faults like this pass an inspection at the factory. The owner of this SUV deserves nothing less than a full vehicle replacement from TATA.

[Moto_Bear]

It feels plain awful when you put 25 lakhs into a vehicle and on the delivery day, the sales representatives have to jump start it to get it to work. Additionally, given that a full payment has been done and going by the timeline of events, a registration made in your name, the customer is at the mercy of Tata now to get his vehicle fixed. In India, a lot of emotion,aspirations and ambitions go into the process of buying a car, whether it is an entry level hatchback or the premium luxury ones.

Coming to the discussion, I believe a lot of things don't work out in favour of Tata when you analyse it.

1.Extensive R&D: The underlying reason why the Japanese, Koreans or the Germans are considered to be the Top dogs in the automobile industry is because they've mastered their craft, through extensive testing and perfecting their core competencies. Tata, on Safari or Harrier for that matter, has outsourced most of the core mechanics and it is shocking to see that even with such a light load on the R&D end(all the outsourced parts are from reliable sources), Tata has failed to produce a reliable machine.

2. Poor Quality Control: The recent video of Harrier's leaking sunroof wasn't inspiring to say the least for any current or future Tata customer. It reminds me of the time I took a test drive of the Harrier and the water drops were dripping on the seats via the sunroof lining. Either the Quality Control officers are not properly trained or they suffer from a lack of competency to assure proper functioning vehicles. And to everyone's surprise, it is not the new age infotainment systems or the electronic components, it's the basic stuff such as engines and transmissions that are on the debate end of things.

3. TASS: Even if niggles crop up in a car, it is a given that the issue would be taken care of by the service center folk. However, with TASS, I believe Issue resolution for them is more of a perpetual task than seeking a solution having finality to it. A lot of issues are never resolved and those which are resolved, what caused them is not stated. Furthermore, through various personal experiences, TASS is a hit or miss service highly dependent on the dealer which is again a poor reflection onto Tata's public image.

4. Carefree approach to consumer base: My Test Drive at the Tata Dealer was one of my worst experiences when it comes to driving a car. The whole atmosphere of the dealership reminded of a 1950s government office where I was applying for a license to do business. The sales staff was disinterested in selling the cars and the test drive vehicle followed suit as the sunroof start dripping water on the seats( took the test drive during a downpour). Anyways, never got a call back from them regarding the sale and it was a stark contrast of what you find in a Toyota or a Hyundai dealership.

Conclusively, I had planned to get Harrier as my first car, then followed Safari for that purpose and I am currently abstaining from buying any Tata vehicle for the reasons stated above. A car is a lot more than a means of getting from Point A to B, and Tata needs to realize that. Otherwise, it'll be going the way of the Dodo, extinct and in the history sheets.

[scorpian]

And tata does it again.....
In my opinion you should have refused delivery, I would be sheel shocked if my hard earned money spent on a car refuses to start at the delivery. Screams lemon in every possible way.
One of the reasons why i would never buy a tata, their escalation matrix is also quite poor compared to other car makers like maruti.I know i would get a lot less when buying a maruti but i value my peace of mind more then getting stranded somewhere.

You should now refuse to take the car back and ask for a replacement as its bound to give repeated issues. Also if the service centre is not competent enough then your safari will come the test bed for them to learn which is feel isn't fair a bit after you spend such big bucks on it.