[EV NXT]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

Who should be held responsible for this?

Sorry to hear about this situation.

But to answer your question, I think it’s we customers who buy DSGs FULLY AWARE that it is notorious for CONSISTENT failures and even indicate that we should set apart a lakh or two for possible failures that are responsible for this situation.

Instead of boycotting VW thereby forcing them to come out with a product that does not fail or provide unconditional / unlimited warranties we instead encourage VW by knowingly buying DSGs.

There are quite a few threads advising to set apart money for DSG failures instead of advising to boycott the product thereby forcing VW to improve or introduce a better gearbox. Wouldn’t VW read those threads and realize that they can actually make more money by selling a defective product than by providing a fail safe one?

On another note, your car must be under warranty but even if it isn’t, the gearbox alone would be eligible for a 2 year warranty after a service done by VW a year ago.

[Dhruv29]

Originally Posted by EV NXT

Sorry to hear about this situation.

There are quite a few threads advising to set apart money for DSG failures instead of advising to boycott the product thereby forcing VW to improve or introduce a better gearbox. Wouldn’t VW read those threads and realize that they can actually make more money by selling a defective product than by providing a fail safe one?

On another note, your car must be under warranty but even if it isn’t, the gearbox alone would be eligible for a 2 year warranty after a service done by VW a year ago.

Yes, my car is under 2 year factory warranty and I also opted for 3 year extended warranty. But the main gripe I have with VW is that this car is supposed to be a daily driver and not a high end Porsche with a highly modified DSG. With that car, I could probably afford a downtime for repairs and maintenance.

In 1.5 years of ownership, it’s been in the shop for 2 months. For 1st DSG, A/C failure. And now probably staring at another month of downtime.

The incompetency of V.W India, and service centre for not being able to pinpoint the exact failure on these Allspaces sold in India is what is bugging me.

I’ll give the car again next week, and probably these guys won’t even look at DSG again stating we had already replaced it. And who knows that there might be a wear and tear induced failure point in it.

I expected DSG failures atleast after 50-60k KM/ 3 years, hence the extended warranty.
But just 3 month in ownership, then again same failure after 8 months post DSG replacement. It is too much.

DQ381 will be a complete replacement in case of any failure as of now. There is no training given to technicians to even carry out small repairs on it and the replacement for it costs 7 lacs + labour.

[EV NXT]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

The incompetency of V.W India, and service centre for not being able to pinpoint the exact failure on these Allspaces sold in India is what is bugging me.

Exactly my point. Quoting from an earlier post of mine:

Originally Posted by EV NXT

It would have been easier to believe if they attributed the failure to the blue shirt being worn by the owner.

Adding to an earlier post of mine on what you need to be prepared for when buy a DSG -

1. incompetent assessments by the ASS - going wrong because of incompetence

2. deliberate incorrect assessments by the ASS to get you to pay

3. waiting for the factory guys to come and have a look at the car - at least 2 weeks.

4. long lead times for approvals - another week.

5. rejection of your claim because you’re wearing a blue shirt or similar equally convincing reason.

6. vandalism, change of parts while in the ASS

7. Other damage to the car while waiting in the ASS for anything upto 8 weeks or more,

7. final payments being a lot more than what one expected,

8. and finally babying the car after getting it back in fear of another DSG outage.

Welcome to the DSG experience. It’s not a straight 2 lakhs payment and off you go. It’s a lot more misery added. When you buy a DSG, all this is a part of the package.

If the DSG was just a payment of 1 lakh and you could fit a new gearbox in a day and go it wouldn’t have been so bad. It’s the waiting, the wrong diagnosis, the tricks done by the ASS and VW, the tampering with the car during the one month it lies at ASS that is the real agony. Not the actual failure.

[Maky]

Originally Posted by EV NXT

Sorry to hear about this situation.

But to answer your question, I think it’s we customers who buy DSG’s FULLY AWARE that it is notorious for CONSISTENT failures and even indicate that we should set apart a lakh or two for possible failures that are responsible for this situation.

Precisely, while VW cannot be given an excuse for creating half tested products simply because they are great to drive, we need to realistically be aware of what we are buying.

I have been in the market for a new car, and will be for remainder of this year, I have test driven cars from Jeep and Skoda. I asked point blank to the Skoda SA when I tested the Octavia about DSG failures(DQ200) and what could I expect from the new one(DQ381) and he in turn point blank replied, 'Sir it will cost you 2-2.5L'.
As much as I enjoyed the Octavia's drive over the Compass, I decided there and then I will keep aside an amount for the eventual DSG failure over and above the regular maintenance costs should I go with a VAG car.

[igemini]

Totally understand your frustration over this and that too the second time in an year. DSG is a real pain for the customers and it's just a matter of time when it is going to fail.

In India at least, DSG isn't a viable option and it isn't an engineering marvel unlike many claims even in Team BHP. As long as it works it would be great, and when it fails it would be nothing less than a total disaster and money draining pit. No need to say about the loss of time.

Either VW India should invest more time and make the DSG gearboxes India ready. Or else they should offer something that's more reliable compared to DSG, a Torque converter perhaps. Those who want a DSG, there must be an option for that too.

Regardless of everything, as long as we as consumers are happy purchasing the DSG, VW India will keep selling the DSG gearboxes that aren't India ready, again and again. VW India is sleeping on it for a long time and they might never get a wakeup call or they don't wanted to be awakened. Either way the loss is for the customers, in terms of money, time, efforts and to live in the fear when it's going to fail.

[Amey Kulkarni]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

In 1.5 years of ownership, it’s been in the shop for 2 months. For 1st DSG, A/C failure. And now probably staring at another month of downtime.

Very sorry to hear this Dhruv29. I can totally imagine how agonising it must be for you especially if it’s your daily runner. I’m driving the Golf GTI MK8 in Dubai as a daily and now the entire thread is giving me jitters about the DQ381 although I’ve not noticed anything of this sort so far *Touchwood* in my 6.5k kms of odo.

Just wondering what kind of freaking could be the cause of failure? Is the map not suitable? Is the fuel quality impacting the drivetrain? Or is it is just a mechanical concern?

Why do you call it a concern only for India? What difference are Indian conditions making the DSG to fail considering that it’s a CBU which means it’s the same configuration worldwide. It’s surely not heat. GCC has more temperature than India.

You might want to escalate the issue now to VW India. There’s no point in playing around with ASS.

More power to you dude. Hope this gets sorted out soon.

Cheers
Amey

[Bimmer_Sage]

Damn! I had almost convinced everyone at home for a slavia 1.5 TSI DSG but I am going to stay clear of this headache. Search begins again.

[pratikonomics]

I continue to be surprised how people still justify expectations of DSG failure.

A solution doesn't become an engineering marvel just because of its ability to deliver higher highs, all while ignoring or simply accepting periods of frustrating lows. That would be something expected in a lab, not something you're selling for money.

Combined this with abysmal service and accountability culture in India across the entire retail structure, this is a recipe for disaster that simply has no end in sight. Unless VW sees that this is actively hurting their sales and brand, they'll be happy to divert the market euphoria with some Polo nostalgia or Monte Carlo buzz.

[woodstock3001]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Sage

Damn! I had almost convinced everyone at home for a slavia 1.5 TSI DSG but I am going to stay clear of this headache. Search begins again.

Novice question - Do all VW & Skoda automatic cars share the same gearbox ?

[AKSarkar1]

Originally Posted by EV NXT

I think it’s we customers who buy DSGs FULLY AWARE that it is notorious for CONSISTENT failures and even indicate that we should set apart a lakh or two for possible failures that are responsible for this situation. Instead of boycotting VW thereby forcing them to come out with a product that does not fail or provide unconditional / unlimited warranties we instead encourage VW by knowingly buying DSGs.

Note: Shortened quote for conciseness

I don't think it would be right to generalize that all customers who buy DSGs are fully aware, us car folks are 'car literate' but that is not the case with everyone. My father who picked up a Vento 7 years ago was convinced by the salesman that like VW the 'DSG' is a German marque which too is made to outlast competition, and yes my father fell for it. If it weren't for this forum, I too would be facing DSG problems by now had I have a DSG over a MT. VW/Skoda gets a big fat zilch/0 when it comes to their ethics including sales ethics in India.

The fact of the matter is that car-savvy VAG customers know that their gearbox is destined to fail but with a timeframe in mind. Many of my friends have picked up a Vento/Superb used it till the 4-5 year mark before parting ways. In this case, 2 gearbox failures is simply unprecedented.

As for your second point, I 100% agree with you here. Most customers who understand the technicalities are steering clear of the 1.5 DSG combo for the newer models. VW/Skoda India can do all the marketing they want but that won't overcome flawed products.

Very pertinent thoughts shared by you, thanks!

[Bimmer_Sage]

Originally Posted by woodstock3001

Novice question - Do all VW & Skoda automatic cars share the same gearbox ?

No, the 1.0 TSI has a torque converter. Only DSG transmissions have a problem.

[snappysam]

My point is why do VW customers accept DSG failures as part of the "package"? Whether it fails at 100,000 Kms or at around 14,000 Kms like the OP's car, it is not that gearboxes should not fail especially since for a DSG, user error is minimised due to it being an Automatic. I mean, it is literally difficult to abuse the gearbox.

Now don't justify that driving conditions are bad in India. These cars are sold in India and should be able to take the rigors of traffic and driving situations prevalent here. My personal take on this is that owners of these vehicles should rally forth together and demand VW to bring out better DSGs relevant to our conditions or else give an unconditional warranty for the existing DSG units, especially if the cars are maintained regularly as per VW recommendations in their Authorised Service Centers.

Just my 2 cents...

[clement.lloyd]

Originally Posted by snappysam

Now don't justify that driving conditions are bad in India. These cars are sold in India and should be able to take the rigors of traffic and driving situations prevalent here.

I was really thinking/tempted to replace my current 4 year old Honda city with the new vw virtus performance line. But given the discussions around the DSG gearbox, have opted out. Am going to stick to upgrading to a Honda until vw do a bit of research and fix these issues.

[haskelerator]

It would be nice to know the exact cause though. My strong suspicion is still on the fuel quality we have in India. Dubai is hotter than India and the cars do fine there. Traffic is actually worse in downtown USA and the cars do well there too. Else there would be massive recalls in those countries.

[lapis_lazuli]

It's alarming and surprising. People thought the 381 tranny would be more rugged and reliable. It seems it's not as easy to conclude. It's doing duty on the Superb and a few other VAG cars. However yet to see reports on those. Why would fuel quality affect the transmission? Power and load(torque) handling is what the tranny is exposed to. A poor fuel can cause sub par output. Not further stress a gearbox, in my humble thinking. The OP always mentioned the sound from the engine side. Maybe even the earlier diagnosis was wrong, perhaps the gearbox wasn't at fault, in the first place! Just thinking aloud.