[Durango Dude]

Basically DSG gearboxes are unreliable, can over heat, not suited to our traffic and climatic conditions, VW, Skoda and all those who jumped on to the DSG, DCT bandwagon knows this. The clients also know this but there's a sadomasochistic pleasure we Indians have in buying DSG and crying foul when things go foul! For the one guy who derives real pleasure there 10 that suffer. How will VAG change if we don't boycott their products. Be it CBU or Made for India Skoda/VW 2.0 products they are fraught with problems right from inception if TML or Mahindra do it we will stop buying it, but Oh VAG that 'thunk' of the door and that driving pleasure, and that sense that one has "almost arrived" feeling is pure pleasure pain. VAG is the stepping stone to owning the Big 3 Germans. So one get's to enjoy the pleasure and pain.

[gururajrv]

3 gearboxes?! Clearly an indication this CBU’s gearbox isn’t tuned to take on India’s weather conditions at all. Mostly apt for European or American markets but certainly isn’t for India mostly. I don’t think they’ll be able to figure this out because there’s no specific gearbox tuned or manufactured for India for this model, May be? If yes, trade this car out to atleast save some peace of mind whilst money and time is already wasted.

[Dhruv29]

Originally Posted by gururajrv

3 gearboxes?! Clearly an indication this CBU’s gearbox isn’t tuned to take on India’s weather conditions at all. Mostly apt for European or American markets but certainly isn’t for India mostly. I don’t think they’ll be able to figure this out because there’s no specific gearbox tuned or manufactured for India for this model, May be? If yes, trade this car out to atleast save some peace of mind whilst money and time is already wasted.

But again, we don’t know if it’s the gearbox which is at fault. It can be a timing chain related issue, or anything sensor related. God knows.
Gearboxes were clearly changed as a haphazard measure.

[GForceEnjoyer]

I am really curious now, have any Octavia and Superb owners with the DQ381 gearbox been facing this issue? Or does the issue lie elsewhere (that's what my guess would be)? Really sorry to see the state of affairs surrounding your car, all the best in getting the problem fixed.

[RD150]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

Be it CBU or Made for India Skoda/VW 2.0 products they are fraught with problems right from inception if TML or Mahindra do it we will stop buying it.

Very well said. It is weird and funny the way people are ok with DSG failures in the name of driving pleasure. Also I have seen members advising to be ready with DSG failures and plan finances or keep aside some money for the same. Is VW doing us some favour? If the parts fail they should take responsibility, and we as customers should totally avoid buying DSG cars not from VAG but other manufacturers as well. Let them come with solid, reliable DSGs, let them not take us for granted.
We have known Tbhp for raising voice against manufacturers in the past. Members should stop advising people to buy DSG cars. Period.

[Carpainter]

This is the reason why one should either avoid VAG cars or if one can't let go of the built quality and steering feel then choose a manual model or TC. It's a shame that high end cars like Octavia, Superb, Kodiaq etc. don't get a manual. Customers of this segment do prefer auto but VW/Skoda should realize that there are customers who want to buy VAG cars but are put off because of this gearbox. If I'm not wrong, most of the unreliability stories of their cars in India since the beginning have been mostly because of DSG and still they neither rectified it nor given any alternative.

For Mr. Dhruv I think best way forward is get rid of this car, swallow the loss and move on. Don't let a car take away your mental peace.

[KKapadia]

Hi Dhruv

I have been reading your posts since you bought the car. It’s is highly frustrating and agonising to feel what you are going through. DSGs when they came charmed all enthusiasts as being the go to thing for spirited driving and people were ready to keep a corpus aside for failures. But looking at your example of 3 gearboxes within approx 30k km. Most of the enthusiasts would lose their enthusiasm and bank balances.
It’s not the replacement of the gearbox that irritates but the longer the time your car spends at the workshop the more number of components are being opened up and not to mention the technicians and the valets sometimes drive like F1 drivers within the workshop, and of course the continuous degradation of the interiors with tools and lubricants in hands of these people. The new car feeling is lost. This car definitely has not run tests in Indian conditions. Though they do run in the Middle East in hot conditions but there is some component within that complicated gearbox which is giving way in the Indian driving cycle.
In full sympathy I would say you need to decide weather you would want to fight out this battle with Vw who definitely won’t care beyond a point since Tiguan all spaces are so few in numbers or quietly move on and sell the car and get something which is more reliable.

[Thakurs]

Hi Dhruv,

It is really unfortunate that the noise and problem isnt rectified after so may part replacements
The video shows the sudden acceleration/kickdown creates the noise, the might possible reason is not DSG but need to look for Haldex coupling as Transfer case. The chain slackness creates this noise and also doesn't leave any fault code behind ( Most of the time)
I'm might be wrong here but in DSG there is no part except out side Dual mass flywheel creates noise.

[Dhruv29]

Originally Posted by Thakurs

Hi Dhruv,

It is really unfortunate that the noise and problem isnt rectified after so may part replacements
The video shows the sudden acceleration/kickdown creates the noise, the might possible reason is not DSG but need to look for Haldex coupling as Transfer case. The chain slackness creates this noise and also doesn't leave any fault code behind ( Most of the time)
I'm might be wrong here but in DSG there is no part except out side Dual mass flywheel creates noise.

I really doubt that the noise is created from transfer case. If it was any kind of mechanical fault, it should constantly be replicable in any driving conditions. For me, it occurs in heat/summer conditions after driving the vehicle for about 20-30 km. It'll go away after car is switched off for 10-15 min and later again come back. Noise comes from engine drive belt area.
DSG is unrefined noisy gearbox with no place in vehicles >15 lacs pricepoint. I might be wrong in applications of DSG in Audi (S-tronic) as i have no experience with Audi vehicles. But i do have driving experience in different Auto gearboxes from other manufacturers, and i repeat, no gearbox is as noisy in operation as a DSG.
In VW you can hear actuators engaging gears, rattling noise in gearbox in slow rough roads (Shifter forks?). The solution is not to "increase volume of stereo, increase A/C flow". It's an unrefined product overall. None of the auto magazines review mention it. Every review praises the smoothness of gear shifting but not the mechanical noises it makes.

My fault during TD of Tiguan was that i didn't think that such a half baked product can be sold on such a high price point and didn't look for these noises from gearbox which is audible even in normal driving conditions (No one does?). I tested other Allspaces later, all vehicle had these khat, metallic noises from gearbox.
If i had noticed it during TD no way in hell i would've bought it.
Or maybe i'm expecting too much from this vehicle in terms of refinement?
A post from @Androdev comes to mind: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5132270 (DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox)
Anyhoo, i won't sell this vehicle as the depreciation loss will be too much to bear and also it might be famous due to Tiguan Allspace public profile of failure. I'll probably be low balled to the ground in terms of pricing.
It is still functioning as a SUV and suits my need at least in the city, i'll use it as a beater vehicle and run it to the ground. It is still a pretty good vehicle with excellent dynamics/interior comfort. But a line has to be drawn where reliability will always trump over Dynamics/ European build.
I'll try to gain social media traction from auto magazines, if it works it works.
Currently, the car is standing at VW for some "Engineers" to come look at it tomorrow.
But this will be the last time i'll raise this problem to VW/Forums. Life/peace of mind is too big to devote to a vehicle.

[novice]

I said this before and am saying it again. Everything that you said points to some sort of fueling issue. I would start with the low pressure fuel pump in the tank. Also, as someone else already said, it could also be due to some sort of electrical issue affecting engine or fueling system.

Originally Posted by Thakurs

Hi Dhruv,
The video shows the sudden acceleration/kickdown creates the noise

If this observation is indeed true then you are wasting your time by blaming the gearbox and both you and your VW ASS been barking up the wrong tree.

It is a classic case of inadequate fuel supply to the engine and the primary suspect would be the low pressure in-tank fuel pump.

Note that a faulty low pressure fuel pump doesn’t trigger any error codes.

[ashishpotdar]

I think as a forum, I find Team BHP becoming more biased towards VAG group cars and features. You keep hearing accolades about "Solid build, DSG lightning shifts, power or pickup of TDI, TSI engines" while ignoring service horrors, costly engine or DSG failures, new launch vehicle issues like Kushaq fuel pump, poor interiors and cutting down of features. All of this is excused for VAG group. Keeping aside 1-2 lacs for a projected DSG failure is the epitome of this bias.

Maybe because this is an enthusiast forum and we place a lot of emphasis on the short burst of acceleration, imagined overtakes or cruising speeds on highways.

In reality, most of our cars are used 99 % in cities and the ocassional highway trip (2 to 3 a month max). Shouldn't we become more rational about the use case of a car ?

Cars are also about comfort, reliability, smooth behaviour in start stop traffic, inside space, rear seat comfort (if chauffeur driven), fuel efficiency. Cars are also the most dependable every-day use appliance that we use. Long term reliability and prompt service is essential.

Imagine buying an expensive TV or Fridge knowing that the compressor or motherboard is known to fail, others have suffered and the company does not care about your plight. Will you still set aside a few thousands for a new compressor and buy that double door Fridge ?

If you look at the car purchase dynamics in the country, the VAG cars shares are still miniscule. So who buys all the other boring cars ? And are we not representing them enough on this forum ?

[Gannu_1]

Originally Posted by ashishpotdar

You keep hearing accolades about "Solid build, DSG lightning shifts, power or pickup of TDI, TSI engines"

That's true because honestly, their engine + powertrain options are really, really insane. The group no longer has diesel engines after the BS6 norms came into effect.

Originally Posted by ashishpotdar

while ignoring service horrors, costly engine or DSG failures, new launch vehicle issues like Kushaq fuel pump, poor interiors and cutting down of features.

All of this is excused for VAG group. Keeping aside 1-2 lacs for a projected DSG failure is the epitome of this bias.

Not sure if you missed but we do highlight their service track record and the unreliability of the DSGs under drawbacks.

From the Kodiaq's review:

Originally Posted by Omkar

What you won't:

• Power is 'adequate', but nothing 'special'. Should have gotten the 188 BHP & 400 Nm tune
• Overpriced by Rs. 5 lakhs. Priced at a serious premium over the Tiguan & Fortuner
• Cramped 3rd row of seats is strictly for children. A 5+2 SUV, not a 7-seater
• Styling is very understated. Doesn't have much street cred or presence
• Just one variant; no cheaper FWD or MT options either
• Should've gotten the Superb's ventilated seats & 12-speaker ICE
• Skoda’s ill-famed dealers & long-term reliability issues remain matters of concern

From the Kodiaq facelift's Review:

Originally Posted by Omkar

Skoda Kodiaq Cons

• Workhorse 2.0L turbo-diesel is no longer available. Heavy users will miss its low running costs
• Single digit fuel economy of the turbo-petrol AT in the city. Drops drastically if you drive aggressively
• Its sibling, the VW Tiguan, is priced a couple of lakhs cheaper
• Expensive! Worse still, Skoda increased the Kodiaq’s pricing within days of the launch
• Cramped 3rd row of seats is strictly for small children. A 5+2 SUV, not a 7-seater
• Styling does look Estate-ish from some angles. Doesn't have that much street cred or presence
• We feel that the “Sportline” variant should’ve been offered with the DCC & other L&K features
• Skoda’s ill-famed dealership network & after-sales horror stories
• Skoda’s patchy long-term reliability track record (including, but not limited to, the DSG)
• Silly feature deletions from older Kodiaq (rear door sills, 1 umbrella, 1 blanket, chrome tip on power window switches, removeable torch in the boot, red warning lights on the front doors…)

From the Virtus' review:

Originally Posted by Omkar

Volkswagen Virtus Cons

• No 1.5L diesel is a major disadvantage in a world where petrol costs over 100 bucks / litre
• DQ200 DSG transmission has a history of poor reliability & breakdowns in India
• No MT option available with the 1.5L petrol. The Slavia offers this combination, as does the City
• Backseat better for 2 healthy adults and a child, rather than 3 adults
• Lovely 1.5L TSI is only available on the top variant. Should have been there in the mid-trim too
• Interior quality doesn’t feel up to oldschool VW standards. Body-coloured interior highlights are polarising too
• Missing some features such as a subwoofer, driving modes (sport), 360-degree camera & electric driver's seat adjustment
• Turbo-petrols are very sensitive to driving style. FE will drop drastically when you drive hard
• VW’s after-sales service can be a hit or miss. The brand’s long-term reliability can be patchy as well
• Slavia's 'clever' touches are missing = no spot on top of the dashboard to place a deity, no smartphone holders on the front seatbacks, no ticket clip on the windshield, no elastic band in the doorpad to keep items in place, or even something as simple as the small reflective tapes on the doors

From the Tiguan's review:

Originally Posted by Aditya

What you won't:

• Overpriced by a couple of lakhs! Heavy premium over the Hyundai Tucson
• Many will find the design too bland & understated. Lacks street cred
• Engine feels adequate, but isn't exciting. You'd expect more power at this price
• Stiff ride quality, especially on the back seat (our test car had the 18" rims)
• Despite this being a new wet clutch DSG, we have our finger's crossed on its reliability
• No cheaper MT or FWD variants
• VW's sub-par dealership & service experiences

From the Taigun's review:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Volkswagen Taigun Cons

• No 1.5L diesel is a major disadvantage in a world where petrol costs over 100 bucks/litre
• GT customers will need to choose between the rock (potential DQ200 transmission problems) and a hard place (GT manual variant misses out on many top-end features)
• Narrow cabin width makes a 5th adult completely unwelcome. Best for 4 onboard
• Interior colour scheme and quality don't feel up to traditional VW standards. Some polarising details too (chrome outside, painted plastics inside...)
• Sure lacks the street cred / presence offered by some competitors
• VW’s after-sales service can be a hit or miss. Many VW owners find it expensive too
• Missing some now-expected features such as 6 airbags in the MTs, a subwoofer, driving modes (sport), panoramic sunroof, 360-degree camera, electric driver's seat adjustment & rear window blinds
• Turbo-petrols are very sensitive to driving style. FE will drop drastically when you drive hard
• Kushaq's 'clever' touches are missing = no spot on top of the dashboard to place a deity, no smartphone holders on the front seatbacks, no ticket clip on the windshield, no elastic band in the doorpad to keep items in place, or even something as simple as the small reflective tapes on the doorpads

From the Kushaq's review:

Originally Posted by ChiragM

Skoda Kushaq Cons

• No 1.5L diesel is a major disadvantage in a world where petrol costs over 100 bucks / litre
• DQ200 DSG transmission has a history of poor reliability & breakdowns in India
• Narrow width makes a 5th adult completely unwelcome. Best for 4 onboard
• Lovely 1.5L TSI is only available on the top variant
• At 385 litres, boot space is lesser than its direct rivals (Creta & Seltos = 433L)
• Sure lacks the street cred / presence offered by some competitors
• Skoda’s notorious dealerships & after-sales horror stories
• Missing some now expected features such as 6 airbags on the ATs, driving modes (sport), panoramic sunroof, 360-degree camera, electric driver's seat adjustment & regular USB ports
• Turbo-petrols are very sensitive to driving style. FE will drop drastically when you drive hard

Plus, we have so many user reports on their DSGs failing on the forum.

Originally Posted by ashishpotdar

while ignoring service horrors, costly engine or DSG failures, new launch vehicle issues like Kushaq fuel pump, poor interiors and cutting down of features.

You have clearly missed this thread which runs into 32 pages:

Skoda Kushaq breakdowns & problems

And a more recent one:

Volkswagen Taigun : Ineffective air-conditioning

Sorry man, but just to set the record straight, we have no bias towards ANY manufacturer. We don't get paid by them to write favourable reviews on the forum either. We call a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by ashishpotdar

Will you still set aside a few thousands for a new compressor and buy that double door Fridge ?

We do take extended warranties and AMCs just to be on the safer side. Case in point, inverter ACs because you drew an analogy to home appliances.

[Dr ST]

Hi Dhruv,
Extremely sorry to hear about the issues. What is the current status.

[Dhruv29]

Originally Posted by Dr ST

Hi Dhruv,
Extremely sorry to hear about the issues. What is the current status.

Hey,
I had recieved the car quite a while back and didn’t posted an update until i had something concrete to write about.
I think we did found the culprit in this whole saga.
During one of the test run, the engineers didn’t put the engine protection guard underneath and went for a drive. The engineers called me and asked about the “conditions in which the noise occurs”, i said after driving for about 25-30km in about 40 degrees temperature. They said that they drove the car for 150km and the noise isn’t there. I said drive it more in afternoon when temperature is high. Then suddenly they had an light bulb moment and told that engine protection isn’t installed and the drivetrain probably is not getting warm enough.
They went back to workshop and installed the engine guard, and just after about 20km, the noise and sluggishness was there.
In stock form, the engine guard has 2 air inlets for cooling, they made some additional wide holes for air to enter and exit.
From that “jugaad” moment, the car has covered 4,000 additional kilometers, that problem hasn’t repeated itself.
Sometimes, i think about experimenting with a air scoop on the hood, Scorpio style

[Dr ST]

Dear Dhruv 29,
Very happy to hear about the progress. I sincerely hope that it doesn't recur. My Tiguan Allspace has covered 49000 kilometres and I was worried to read about this issue. Does it mean that the 3 gearboxes which were changed were not damaged?
Regards