[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by somen87

Basically now whenever speed bumps come i try to move to manual mode asap. But still i think this particular situation i faced is a bit strange as there was nothing out of the ordinary till travel time and the car was running perfectly fine till now. Maybe its the nature of this mechatronic its bound to fail under certain situations we don’t really know about and neither dealer is sure.

If I may, please see if this list of 10 Commandments (link to post (DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox))is of any help as a general reference.

The baroda SA did say you have used aftermarket exide battery that can also create voltage/electrical problems with mechatronic.

That might be a standard ploy used by them to sideline any unforeseen issues or if they cannot fathom DSG issues. I have experienced this personally couple of times.
However, might be a good thing to get the battery tested for general health (to check what the SA is claiming) even if there is no direct electrical supply as such from the battery to the mechatronics unit.

[somen87]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

If I may, please see if this list of 10 Commandments (link to post (DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox))is of any help as a general reference.

I missed this post the first time reading through all pages. Thanks will try to follow the commandments, although I have specifically faced challenges on how to make sure not to creep too much when heavy traffic snarls happen.

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

That might be a standard ploy used by them to sideline any unforeseen issues or if they cannot fathom DSG issues. I have experienced this personally couple of times.
However, might be a good thing to get the battery tested for general health (to check what the SA is claiming) even if there is no direct electrical supply as such from the battery to the mechatronics unit.

Yes, I had the battery tested and general health looks fine, although now thinking about it the battery is 45 Ah vs I think 44 AH on the OEM. Not sure if voltage supply metrics mean something here.
To summarize what I have learned from my experience is that its best not to use external batteries with a car that fully relies on its electronics to function if knowledge is limited.

Also on a side note, do replacement parts hold any warranty onto itself. I cannot find any documentation around it, dealer did state that the new mechatronic and battery should be covered under standard replacement warranty of 2 years.
And would you advise to buy EW now? The Vento TSI (May 2016 make) is completely stock post repair and I am not sure whether VW would entertain any warranty claims over wear and tear with the actual gearbox, dual clutch or DMF.
Honestly I love this car and would like to stick with it for 3 more years till I can afford an upgrade within VW/Skoda stable.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by somen87

I have specifically faced challenges on how to make sure not to creep too much when heavy traffic snarls happen

IMHO, the best way to handle creep in heavy traffic is to shift to Manual / Tiptronic mode immediately and change the gears manually as you deem fit. That way, you reduce the load on the dual clutch assembly in general.
The DSG has been known to cause problems when left in "Drive" or D mode on its own specially in creep scenarios. There are are quite a few posts in this thread itself, talking about this. Am sure you would have noticed that

Also on a side note, do replacement parts hold any warranty onto itself

Yes, if purchased at & installed by the authorized dealer.

I cannot find any documentation around it, dealer did state that the new mechatronic and battery should be covered under standard replacement warranty of 2 years.

The mechatronics module is perhaps the most costly piece of equipment that you will ever replace in a VW DSG car and you should demand assurance formally, from the dealer.

And would you advise to buy EW now?

I would still say yes - if it isn't too much of a bank breaker deal, given that there has been some time lapse since your previous warranty expired? Just to cover some more elements during the course of your ownership.

To relate my own personal experience (my car was 2015 model), am into the 6th year of my Vento ownership. I have purchased 2 Add-On warranties so far. That leaves me with the option to purchase 1 more, final Add-On warranty when I start my 7th year of ownership, and I will most gladly buy that as well.

[swissknife]

I have found changing to S mode helps in slow moving traffic. The additional 300 rpm before gear shifts helps in staying in one gear while crawling.

[somen87]

Originally Posted by swissknife

I have found changing to S mode helps in slow moving traffic. The additional 300 rpm before gear shifts helps in staying in one gear while crawling.

During my drive in Delhi traffic conditions tried this suggestion, but in my car even S1 to S2 shift is near instant like D1 to D2. Difference comes in gears > 2 as S mode holds on to almost 5000 rpm.

I am trying to get my car inspected and take add-on warranty if eligible. However last week I saw another niggle resurface in my car which usually comes only when driver over long distance (>50kms) and then if the car has to cover some distance in heavy start stop traffic.

The niggle comes in the form of a strange noise (sounds similar to clutch slip in a manual car which driving uphill). Kindly listen attached; especially the last 10 seconds. (Apologies had to upload as a zip file since audio format attachments are not supported, hence might not open on mobile browsers).

[ATTACH=AUDIO-2021-04-03-18-58-10.zip]2142366[/ATTACH]

I had complained about this 2 times in Pune ASC as well during 3rd and 4th service, but since its very difficult to reproduce couldn't explain and this noise doesn't even come in normal drive scenarios. Last service SA claimed to have found the issue with engine drive belt which got replaced in 4th service and now this noise should not come but its coming again. Fortunately this time I was driving with my wife when this noise came back so requested her to record.

My only worry is if its the clutch/DMF again its going to cost substantial amount to replace as VW will consider this a wear and tear item. Any suggestions on dealing with this issue or if this sounds familiar to something else?


PS: During normal car driving scenarios and even in high speeds i have no issues which usually are associated with clutch/DMF like loss of power in any gear or strange noises. Its completely fine till the time this noise crops up at random moments.

[vinitbarve]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

My 2 cents on the DSG ownership and experience
[*]When in bumper to bumper traffic or very slow moving traffic or going downhill, I immediately shift to manual /tiptronic mode to avoid potential over-heating of the dual clutch plates. When possible, I then try to drive at a speed greater than the car idling speed of about 7-10 km/h so that the mechatronics sensors do not have to continuously send a signal to engage the gear selector forks and keep the clutch plates on standby position for the next pre-selected gear.[/list]

• The upshifts will happen faster as compared to the downshifts. When I accelerate linearly from say 1st to the 7th gear, the car moves into its own zone of highly optimized state of efficiency. However, when I downshift in a sudden or non-linear or unnatural fashion, I can "feel" the overspin on the flywheel is still holding the gears that much longer and that's when you realize the downshift takes a wee bit longer to take place.

Back to index

This is an incredibly well researched thread, and needs to make its way into some kind of research work.

1. Is it fair then to say that the root cause attributed to handling of DSG is that, when acceleration/ deceleration demand is different what the mechatronics anticipates?

2. Does driving in Manual mode reduce chances of DSG failure. Where the driver takes control of the RPM and makes mechatronics sensors redundant.

3. As you said, it is advisable to drive in Manual when at low speeds. Is it also advisible to drive in Manual when once needs sudden acceleration and wants a sudden down shift. On Highways I tend to use only gear 5 and 3, 5 for cruising, and 3 for overtaking. Do you recommend manual for sudden acceleration demands.

Thanks in Advance.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by vinitbarve

This is an incredibly well researched thread, and needs to make its way into some kind of research work.

Thanks a lot Vinit!

1. Is it fair then to say that the root cause attributed to handling of DSG is that, when acceleration/ deceleration demand is different what the mechatronics anticipates?

Yes, generally speaking.
One should try, to the extent possible, not to "rush" the gearbox unnecessarily/frequently - either in up or down speed movements.

2. Does driving in Manual mode reduce chances of DSG failure. Where the driver takes control of the RPM and makes mechatronics sensors redundant.

Difficult to say the blanket statement that manual mode reduces the chances of DSG failure in general. If this were entirely true, then there would be no need for the auto-tranny in the first place!
The manual mode is very effective however, in certain scenarios, where the car needs to crawl or move at very slow speeds typically those found in a D1 or D2 gear.

3. As you said, it is advisable to drive in Manual when at low speeds. Is it also advisible to drive in Manual when once needs sudden acceleration and wants a sudden down shift. On Highways I tend to use only gear 5 and 3, 5 for cruising, and 3 for overtaking. Do you recommend manual for sudden acceleration demands.

For sudden acceleration need, in my personal experience, I have found a proper "kick-down" should also help execute the overtaking maneuver. No need as such to change to manual.
The kick-down, when executed cleanly, would anyway demand the gearbox to respond appropriately, enabling the required rapid increase of speed.

The manual mode, in addition to being used at slow speeds, can also be effectively used for engine braking or decelerating down a hill, for example.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I love the idea of the DSG gearbox, and the performance reports that people give from using it. But, Automatic-transmission bottom line is that it must me work, not give me hassle.

It is not what it does overtaking on the highway that matters for me, but what it does in my almost-every-day driving: city stuff. If I have to baby it in a traffic jam, that's useless. I might as well stick with manual!

I recall, from a decade or three ago, part of my daily London commute where the traffic was always heavy and slow (one could have walked that road faster). It was flat, and all I had to do was ease my foot on and off the brake of the AT car I was driving then. Nothing else, the creep was enough. If an auto gearbox can't take that, it hardly deserves the name gearbox!

I'm not hands- (and feet-) on experienced with ATs of the past 15 - 20 years. It might be argued that the kind of driving I just described requires a slush box or variable band system, rather than a dual clutch? Sometimes, I'd love to have a TSI istead of a TDI, but, even though I no longer have to face office-hour traffic here, let alone in London, I wouldn't touch it unless or until it can handle any city-congestion traffic.

[Chethan B G]

Absolutely true! Technology should facilitate practicality. Only then, it can be appreciated. 👍

Maybe, the reason why VW is shifting towards Torque converters?

[shifu]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I love the idea of the DSG gearbox, and the performance reports that people give from using it. But, Automatic-transmission bottom line is that it must me work, not give me hassle.

It is not what it does overtaking on the highway that matters for me, but what it does in my almost-every-day driving: city stuff. If I have to baby it in a traffic jam, that's useless. I might as well stick with manual!

I recall, from a decade or three ago, part of my daily London commute where the traffic was always heavy and slow (one could have walked that road faster). It was flat, and all I had to do was ease my foot on and off the brake of the AT car I was driving then. Nothing else, the creep was enough. If an auto gearbox can't take that, it hardly deserves the name gearbox!

I'm not hands- (and feet-) on experienced with ATs of the past 15 - 20 years. It might be argued that the kind of driving I just described requires a slush box or variable band system, rather than a dual clutch? Sometimes, I'd love to have a TSI istead of a TDI, but, even though I no longer have to face office-hour traffic here, let alone in London, I wouldn't touch it unless or until it can handle any city-congestion traffic.

Having driven a DSG for the last 6 years, I differ in my opinion. Yes, I do baby the DSG in traffic. Yes, the question of when will the DSG give up is always lingering in the mind. But that is part of the package.

We also have a Baleno CVT in the family and I look for excuses to skip that car and drive my Vento TSI instead, primarily because of the fun-to-drive factor.

*Touchwood* my DSG has survived 40k kms of Hyderabad traffic. All the while my left leg has relaxed, even if I changed the gears manually.

[androdev]

Dual clutch technology offered by VW is a budget variant. VW is a company that doesn't understand quality and they have to build a complex technology gearbox at low cost. The same technology offered by ZF to high end sports cars is much more reliable. Torque converter technology is bullet-proof but it is not sporty like dual clutch. ZF is now making ZF8 torque converter transmissions that are as slick as DCT but these are again expensive and you find them in BMWs and similar high end cars.

If you want sporty + smooth + reliable, it will cost you a bomb. VW would be the last place to look for such a thing. As a buyer, don't go for a DSG if all you care about is a smooth reliable automatic. A simple torque converter transmission is what you need. VW is already unreliable even before you add a DSG to it.

You buy DSG for one of these two reasons:

1. You are a sucker for VW build and you are willing to put up with DSG just to have a VW car.
2. You want the pleasure of //M or Porsche without breaking the bank.

If you bought it for the 2nd reason, you must not baby the DSG. Drive it hard and enjoy every moment. It fails because VW is not Toyota. Don't waste your time reading the net on how to prolong the life of a DSG - just avoid creep/clutch-slip because it is a clutch based GB after all. Other than that nothing you do will save you from a repair. Instead of babying it (which doesn't help btw), take full extended warranty. If you are keeping it beyond extended warranty, budget for a repair. Whatever you do, please don't learn the techniques of driving DSG to achieve the smoothness of a torque converter.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by androdev

If you bought it for the 2nd reason, you must not baby the DSG. Drive it hard and enjoy every moment. It fails because VW is not Toyota.

Well said, androdev. I self-drove my Octavia 1.8 TSI across most of south & west India and in BLR traffic, and never really babied it nor abused it. It still failed with precision at 55K km .

I know it's not a popular statement but I'd rate the VAG DQ-200 dry clutch unit on par with the ZF8 torque converter in my 330i. Can only imagine what the Reesnat's M2C DCT or your Porsche PDK must be like

[PrisonMike]

Unbelievably detailed thread, by far the most thorough spread of information regarding the DSG I have read on the internet!
I am just about to purchase a used 2015 GT TSI with 23k on the odometer. As per the RC book, the vehicles manufacturing month was July 2015.
Is there a way of knowing if the car comes under the new batch of cars with mineral oil instead of synthetic oil used in the GB?
As per some threads on google, some say VW switched to mineral based oil for the DQ200 around 2012. Is that piece of information accurate?

Thank you once again for an absolutely brilliant thread regarding the DSG!

[vinitbarve]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Thanks a lot Vinit!

Mr. Joshmachine

To update - Finally got my Taigun DSG last week. So back to this thread with lots of questions...

1. As one approaches towards a traffic signal, "D" refuses to Kickdown, is it advisable to go for engine braking using "S" mode? Does frequent switching between "S" and "D" puts undesirable pressure on the gearbox. I am finding "S" as a convenient way to use for engine braking.
2. At traffic Signals, keeping the brake depressed is painful on the right leg. Is it ok to shift to neutral and use the hand brake, the old manual way?

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by PrisonMike

Unbelievably detailed thread, by far the most thorough spread of information regarding the DSG I have read on the internet!

Thanks

I am just about to purchase a used 2015 GT TSI with 23k on the odometer. As per the RC book, the vehicles manufacturing month was July 2015.
Is there a way of knowing if the car comes under the new batch of cars with mineral oil instead of synthetic oil used in the GB?
As per some threads on google, some say VW switched to mineral based oil for the DQ200 around 2012. Is that piece of information accurate?

It may not be documented in a specific place but from what I have read/researched, it is widely circulated information that DQ200 gearboxes after FY2013-14 are shipped with mineral oil. VW was kind of forced to announce this change publicly, specially due to backlash in the Chinese market back in 2012-13, where it witnessed large no. of failures (given its large DSG sales in that market).

Originally Posted by vinitbarve

To update - Finally got my Taigun DSG last week.

Congratulations

1. As one approaches towards a traffic signal, "D" refuses to Kickdown, is it advisable to go for engine braking using "S" mode? Does frequent switching between "S" and "D" puts undesirable pressure on the gearbox. I am finding "S" as a convenient way to use for engine braking.

If you are referring to the word 'kickdown', it acutally means a deliberate and sustained pressing of the accelerator pedal, (which results in the gearbox dropping 1-2 gears quickly) giving you the desired rapid increase of speed. Why would you want to do that when you are approaching a traffic signal?
Unless, I may not have understood your question correctly.

Engine braking, in my personal experience, is best done using manual/tiptronic mode.
The "S" mode may give you that 'sense' that the car is being held that much longer (due to the mode's inherent trait to hold on to the gears bit longer) in a particular gear and giving the effect of engine braking, but in reality, the 'S" mode also puts pressure on the dual clutch plates, which defeats the purpose of you wanting to decelerate via engine braking in this mode.

Frequent switching between 'S' and 'D' mode either ways, IMHO, has no direct correlation to putting undesirable pressure on the gearbox. Both modes are meant to be used as often as required (for fun or need!).

2. At traffic Signals, keeping the brake depressed is painful on the right leg. Is it ok to shift to neutral and use the hand brake, the old manual way?

Yes, it is absolutely ok to shift to neutral and pull up the hand brake/press the main foot brake. Infact, I would highly recommend that, if the wait time at traffic signals is long.

May I bring your attention to this post listing down few of my experiential observations and practices - here (DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox).
It contains a summary of all the common scenarios that we typically encounter on day to day basis.