[Jeroen]

Thanks for a very informative thread. I have had 2-3 DSGs in the past. VW and Audi, all before 2009. Never experienced any problems, did 130-140.000 kilometers with them each.

Mind you that was all in Europe.

Any thread on the DSG would not be complete without this briljant add that VW ran in those years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJL15n5P9BU

Jeroen

[superbad]

Excellent post, & I say this with the authority of someone who has understood less than half of it all, & so assume that it must be good

But seriously, one must appreciate the fact that there are literally thousands of different components in just the transmission system (to say nothing of the entire car), thus considering the number of cars which run mostly fault free on roads, you have to hand it out to mankind for having invented this complicated piece of machinery & is keeping it chugging, failures/recalls notwithstanding.

[jnpai]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Thanks jnpai !

Please take your own sweet time to read, and shoot me a query if needed.

here we go....
Sir,
You mentioned in the article that the DSG learns patterns in driver inputs viz - acceleration, braking etc.
So my query is whether the DSG electronics/mechatronics behave differently in a noticeable way if a new driver takes the wheel of your car? for eg; I've done about 10K on my Vento TSi, with my usual driving style.Now if a new driver takes the wheel, does the car second guess tyhe change in driving patterns?

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Mechatronics goes beyond gearboxes

The most ubiquitous would be the printer.

Regards
Sutripta

[Naveen_0181]

Excellent thread, kudos to you for all the research and gathering done on the DSG.

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

My 2 cents on the DSG ownership and experience
In layman terms, this is termed as kick-down and will result in an almost instantaneous needle shift on the tacho, indicating that the engine has received the 'order' to pump in more revs and it will do the needful.

Back to index

I believe the instant needle shift in the tacho is because of the rev matching happening as soon as the gear ratio changes with a downshift and not because of the ECU ordering the engine to pump in more revs!

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks for a very informative thread. I have had 2-3 DSGs in the past. VW and Audi, all before 2009. Never experienced any problems, did 130-140.000 kilometers with them each.
Mind you that was all in Europe.

Thanks Jeroen.
Would be interesting to know which DSG-powered cars did you drive back then, especially with such high running!

Any thread on the DSG would not be complete without this briljant add that VW ran in those years.

Thanks for sharing, it is indeed reminiscent of that era!

Originally Posted by superbad

Excellent post, & I say this with the authority of someone who has understood less than half of it all, & so assume that it must be good

Your compliments humbly acknowledged, thanks

But seriously, one must appreciate the fact that there are literally thousands of different components in just the transmission system (to say nothing of the entire car), thus considering the number of cars which run mostly fault free on roads, you have to hand it out to mankind for having invented this complicated piece of machinery & is keeping it chugging, failures/recalls notwithstanding.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more!

Originally Posted by jnpai

So my query is whether the DSG electronics/mechatronics behave differently in a noticeable way if a new driver takes the wheel of your car? for eg; I've done about 10K on my Vento TSi, with my usual driving style.Now if a new driver takes the wheel, does the car second guess the change in driving patterns?

To a certain extent, yes. However, the term "second guess" (as you say it) or in other words the technical synonym "adaptation" needs to be contextualized.
What this probably means is that it does not actually "store" your driving patterns or behavior as such somewhere in its memory to be invoked when you press the throttle again. (we will not be surprised though if that kind of tech/AI were to actually flow down into a production, mass-scale gearbox).
As an example, the electronic control unit in the mechanics generally will issue instructions to upshift early and move into higher gears if it senses an economical or linear throttle driver input over a period of time or running. But how soon or within how many km, that I wouldn't know for certain.
The reverse is also true, i.e., if the driver input over an extended period of time/km running is a lot different than the pre-programmed settings for creep, kick-down tolerance, coasting etc. then the DSG may not respond as expected to the driver input.
From the forum sources that I listed, there are numerous examples of owners who have experienced the same phenomena.

Originally Posted by Naveen_0181

Excellent thread, kudos to you for all the research and gathering done on the DSG

Thanks, Naveen!

I believe the instant needle shift in the tacho is because of the rev matching happening as soon as the gear ratio changes with a downshift

I used the term more to highlight it as a metaphor

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Thanks Jeroen.
Would be interesting to know which DSG-powered cars did you drive back then, especially with such high running!

VW Touran, Audi A4/A6
In those years I drove some 60-70.000 km a year. As you can imagine, nearly all motorway kilometers.

Jeroen

[Kosfactor]

I love the way DSG shits gears up when you floor it from a stand still, that's all is good about it. After driving the Hexa and XUV automatic, it's safe to say there is no need for the added complexity of DSG. Slush-matic has come a long way, smooth and effortlessly moves the vehicle even in terrible traffic.

DSG is quite unrefined in our traffic when coupled with turbo diesel (the rapid and vento), second only to AMT. My preference so far is Stick shift , Slush-matic followed by CVT, I am not a fast driver but I drive in very dense stop and go traffic where I find DSG to be a bit clueless at times and AMT to be downright crude.

[Joxster]

Excellent thread with very detailed information, JoshMachine. Well done mate!
Even though I probably didn't understand more than half of the technical information, as an upcoming owner of a car with a DSG transmission, this thread couldn't have come at a better time for me! I'm definitely going to go through it a couple of times over, to try and absorb the plethora of information that you have posted.

A question - Does anyone know which DSG box is found in the Skoda Octavia RS 245? It is a 7 speed, as opposed to the 6 speed found in the Octavia RS 230, which makes me suspect that it is the DQ500, but my online searches have not returned me any results so far. I have also asked the sales rep at the Skoda showroom, but he is yet to get back to me.

Cheers

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by Joxster

A question - Does anyone know which DSG box is found in the Skoda Octavia RS 245?

The RS 245 comes with the DQ 381.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

I love the way DSG shits gears up when you floor it from a stand still, that's all is good about it

Quite true, but may I add that quite an overwhelming majority of DSG owners (me included)love the response, when you floor it from within any gear.

DSG is quite unrefined in our traffic when coupled with turbo diesel (the rapid and vento), second only to AMT. My preference so far is Stick shift , Slush-matic followed by CVT, I am not a fast driver but I drive in very dense stop and go traffic where I find DSG to be a bit clueless at times and AMT to be downright crude.

To each his own . I am sure there must be some experience sitting behind your opinions when comparing one tech with the others.
As for me, after driving the Vento Diesel DSG over 60,000 km across both highway and city roads including all sorts of cray traffic, I can very well say (documented in my ownership post as well) that the comfort and the fun of a DSG is unparalleled!
Don't intend to go into comparison with the other techs in this thread (so as to keep the focus on DSG only) but my family/friends have both AMT and CVT auto-trannies comprising Celerio, Baleno, Jazz and the City and I have found them dehydrated in front of a DSG.

Originally Posted by Joxster

Excellent thread with very detailed information, JoshMachine. Well done mate!
Even though I probably didn't understand more than half of the technical information, as an upcoming owner of a car with a DSG transmission, this thread couldn't have come at a better time for me! I'm definitely going to go through it a couple of times over, to try and absorb the plethora of information that you have posted.

Thanks Joxster!And congrats for your Octavia DSG vRS245 booking. Man, that is going to be one damn hot car to drive! And the "black magic" color (IIRC that's the color you have selected?), is going to make your car invisible when you drive on those European motorways!
I travel occasionally to Mechelen and to Europe in general also for work and will keep a watch when I visit next month!

Coming back to this DSG thread, I would suggest, if it's ok with you, to start off in detail with the post where I have talked about my own experience of driving the DSG (link to post). This way, you might be able to relate to the actual driving experience first.
(Mind you though, I have been driving a 105 bhp diesel Vento, which is nowhere close to the 242 bhp rocket that you will be driving )
And then, if you get hooked on to the tech, then you can perhaps go through the "Works" as next section.
Cheers, and hope you have a good experience with your hot ride.

[volkman10]

A triumph for the automatic - Volkswagen reveals its Automatic story

Revolution in carmaking: 15 years ago, Volkswagen introduced the first direct-shift gearbox. The DSG was the first large-scale series production automatic that was more efficient than a manual.

2003: The Golf R32 was the first Volkswagen to be offered with the optional six-speed DSG gearbox.


Shifting in a few hundredths of a second.. More in Link below

Today, all DSG transmissions have exceptionally high performance without interruption of tractive effort – a benefit they owe to their special design. The direct-shift gearbox actually consists of two automatic partial transmissions.

Ninety percent of Tiguan Allspace have an automatic

Today, over 40% of Golf units have the DSG transmission.

Even 30% of Polo buyers order the compact with an automatic transmission. With the Golf Sportsvan, the figure is 50%.

The T-Roc and Tiguan boast similar numbers. Half of customers opt for the DSG transmission.

With the big Tiguan Allspace, in fact, the share with DSG is roughly 90%. In the Passat, 60% of the sedan version units and 70% of the variant units of delivered vehicles have an automatic transmission at the customer’s request.

DSG for plug-in hybrids, too:

Depending on the model (from small car to SUV), engine (gasoline, diesel, or hybrid) and drive type (front or all-wheel), the buyer can choose between 6 and 7-speed transmissions. They are designed for torques between 250 and 600 Newton meters. There are now DSG transmissions for plug-in hybrid models like the Golf GTE* and the Passat GTE** as well.

On-Going development and Future:

Even today, more than 15 years later, DSG transmissions are continuously being refined. One example is the freewheeling function that is now all but standard, in which the DSG disengages the engine from the drive-train. The vehicle then uses its kinetic energy, which further lowers fuel consumption.

Being ideally suited to the hybrid systems of tomorrow, the direct-shift gearbox still has a bright future ahead of it.

The future belongs to the DSG.


Link

[Santoshbhat]

Great thread! Thanks for the effort in compiling such a detailed, well organised and informative thread on the the DSG.

It is undeniable that VW's DSG in its many forms has had reliability issues world over ever since they have been out in the market. But it is amazing to see VW still sticking with it after all these years and trying to make improvements, releasing software updates etc... Failure rates seem to have dropped from the early days for sure, but still a long way to go to say that they are 100% reliable.

Reliability issues aside, I think the DSG is quite amazing. Luckily both my DSG equipped Polos are running without any issues so far : Polo GT TSI - 24,000 kms and Polo GTI - 11,000 kms. The GTI also comes with paddle shifts and they add a new dimension to the experience. The instantaneous upshifts and downshifts are a real joy. Once you get used to it, it's hard to be entertained by the standard slushbox.

I think the key to keep the DSG from breaking down is to prevent it from getting overheated. Shifting to neutral at signals and shifting to manual mode (1st gear) in crawling traffic : are two practices that have become second nature.

[AMG Power]

Surprisingly enough, the VW group does not rely on its DSG gearboxes when it comes to their top of the line - the RS5 (2018) and the RS7 use the ZF - AL551-8 gearbox. The Bugatti Veyron and Chiron use a DCT built by Ricardo of UK.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Being ideally suited to the hybrid systems of tomorrow, the direct-shift gearbox still has a bright future ahead of it.
The future belongs to the DSG.

Now, the battle of the future, as many have surmised, is going to be fought on an "electric/hybrid" battleground. With every generation of the gearbox witnessing improvements by VW, really looking forward to the day when DSG can claim to drive the future.

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Great thread! Thanks for the effort in compiling such a detailed, well organised and informative thread on the the DSG

Thanks Santosh!

Reliability issues aside, I think the DSG is quite amazing. Luckliy both my DSG equipped Polos are running without any issues so far : Polo GT TSI - 24,000 kms and Polo GTI - 11,000 kms. The GTI also comes with paddle shifts and they add a new dimension to the experience. The instantaneous upshifts and downshifts are a real joy. Once you get used to it, it's hard to be entertained by the standard slushbox.

Couldn't agree more with your views on the DSG fun/comfort element.
As you might have noticed, I did go through your ownership report and have included to in the "Ownerships" section

I think the key to keep the DSG from breaking down is to prevent it from getting overheated. Shifting to neutral at signals and shifting to manual mode (1st gear) in crawling traffic : are two practices that have become second nature.

Very true. Thanks for pointing out again!
In fact these are perhaps one of the most important things to remember by us drivers.
Relieving the heat and stress off the clutches when not required, will not only lengthen their life span but also help in other associated components like the hydraulic pump etc to "relax".