[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Are we 100% sure that pressing the brake pedal rests the clutch? I think pressing the brake pedal not only activates the solenoid but also the clutch. Since you can slot it into "D" position with the brake pedal pressed.
That means that the clutch is active when the brake pedal is pressed. If the clutch was at rest then we should not be able to slot the gear lever into "D".

The term clutch at rest, means that they are not engaged at a biting point or in other words a particular gear has not been "pre-selected". As mentioned above, the brake pedal doesn't directly facilitate this movement, it is done by the lever but that, in turn, can be moved only if the solenoid in the selector lever assembly is energized by the brake pedal being pressed.

On the other hand when you leave the Brake pedal you can no longer slot the gear lever into any position, which also means that the clutch is at rest.

Essentially, this statement or observation is the reverse of the above mentioned view point, but they mean the same thing because the solenoid is not charged (when you take your foot off the brake) and thus you cannot move the lever

For what it's worth, I usually apply the handbrake and leave the brake pedal when at a red light. That way I am pretty sure that the clutch is at rest.

That's a good habit, in my view. Am assuming that you simultaneously slot the lever in "neutral" also.
Slightly off topic, but just to add as a food for thought - if one doesn't press the brake pedal though, then one has to remember that the rear lights will also not turn ON.
This means that at places when one has to stop on a road or stop for a traffic signal, there could be some folks driving behind who might not be able to gauge properly that the car in front has actually stopped. I have read in some forums that sometimes such cars have been rear-ended since the person driving behind did not actually see the rear brake lights!

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

The term clutch at rest, means that they are not engaged at a biting point or in other words a particular gear has not been "pre-selected".

That's a good habit, in my view. Am assuming that you simultaneously slot the lever in "neutral" also.
Slightly off topic, but just to add as a food for thought - if one doesn't press the brake pedal though, then one has to remember that the rear lights will also not turn ON..

I have read in some forums that sometimes such cars have been rear-ended since the person driving behind did not actually see the rear brake lights!

Yes, you are correct, I do move the gear lever to neutral and then apply the handbrake at the red light. That way the solenoid is not energized and the clutches are not active plus I am in neutral.

I understand the risk that the stop lights would be off, however at a red light there are usually a lot of cars both in front and back of you that are already stopped. I do agree however that if you are the only car on the red light then it may become risky.

Thanks for the explanation

[hemanth.anand]

I'm late to this thread, but what a wonderful compilation. Thanks so much JoshMachine for this informative thread. This will be frequented by many I'm sure. Being an owner of the GT TSI, I had to explain quite a few people about the DSG...now on I'll just direct people to this thread. Looking at the gearbox rendered image in particular, and reading this thread in general, I'm in awe at how far we have come in terms of automotive technology

From my experience so far, it has been an absolute bliss to drive a VW DSG-equipped car. Especially after owning a Manual Punto with long clutch travel and long gear lever travel, the difference in time taken to shift gears in this is phenomenal. Although that apprehension of a potential failure is always at the back of my mind, I've enjoyed owning the GT TSI for the 37000+ Kms so far. Reading the failure stories has made me sensitive to any and every sound from the engine bay

One thing that I've never seen in my car is the "S7" on the MID. In S mode I've driven sedately, aggressively and with cruise control, but never has it shifted to S7. I would be interested to know if there is something specific to my car or is it common to DQ200.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Thanks for the explanation

Cheers

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I'm late to this thread, but what a wonderful compilation. Thanks so much JoshMachine for this informative thread. This will be frequented by many I'm sure. Being an owner of the GT TSI, I had to explain quite a few people about the DSG...now on I'll just direct people to this thread.

Thanks a lot, Hemanth!

Reading the failure stories has made me sensitive to any and every sound from the engine bay

You can imagine my plight when I started researching on this topic and found out those details

One thing that I've never seen in my car is the "S7" on the MID. In S mode I've driven sedately, aggressively and with cruise control, but never has it shifted to S7. I would be interested to know if there is something specific to my car or is it common to DQ200.

I don't think this is a car-related problem. You can very well achieve the "S7" gear, atleast I have managed to do so in my Vento which has the DQ200.

Posting a pic for your reference, taken almost 1.5 years ago:-



Cross-quoting my views on this find from the original post:-

Driving mode: "Sports"
Gear engaged: "S7"
Cruise Control: ON
Vehicle Speed: 80 km/h (maybe 78-79 actually)
Engine rpm: just shy of 1400 rpm
(Engine behavior: please get me out of this )

However this situation felt as if I am asking the legendary, 100 meters world record holder/champion Usain Bolt to save his energy for running a marathon!

The credit of this finding goes to fellow BHPian aditya9567, who had pointed it out to me earlier on this post in my ownership thread discussion.

[JoshMachine]

Summarizing few observations and practices in the form of 10 Commandments:-

• 1st Commandment-
  General driving 1:Thou shall try to accelerate or decelerate as gradually/linearly as possible, so as to let the DSG respond appropriately and predictably, and also "adapt" to the driving style

• 2nd Commandment-
  General driving 2: Thou shall always try to drive in higher gears (e.g. D7) to the extent possible, so as to let the DSG freely operate at its highest state of efficiency

• 3rd Commandment-
  Traffic Signal: Thou shall try to gradually come to a complete halt at a traffic signal. If the stoppage time is reasonably more (e.g. more than 20 seconds) then thou shall shift the gear lever into "neutral" and pull the handbrake or depress the main brake pedal (preferred). Thou shall not 'ride' the brake pedal

• 4th Commandment-
  Speed breaker: Thou shall approach or move away from a speed breaker very gradually/slowly, so as to mitigate any chance of sudden speed shifts causing the DSG to stutter or jerk awkwardly

• 5th Commandment-
  Going downhill: Thou shall try to shift into "manual" gear mode, so as to leverage engine braking and reduce overheating of the DSG clutches

• 6th Commandment-
  Slow moving traffic: Thou shall try to drive at a speed greater than the vehicle default D1 gear idle speed (typically more than 10 km/h), so as to reduce the tension on the DSG gear selector forks

• 7th Commandment-
  Kick down: Thou shall be very careful when planning for and executing hard and sudden/intentional acceleration (e.g. during overtaking) since the gear downshifting by the DSG may not be consistently responsive in terms of time taken to realize the complete kick-down every time or expected increased vehicle speed

• 8th Commandment-
  Gear lever/selector: Thou shall correctly use the gear lever since the inbuilt solenoid and sensory response is vital to proper DSG functioning

• 9th Commandment-
  Warning indicators: Thou shall pay utmost attention to warning lamps on the MID or associated acoustic tones for gearbox overheating, and take appropriate action like parking the vehicle at the earliest & slotting into "neutral" and/or switching off the vehicle so as to let the gearbox cool down

• 10th Commandment-
  Warranty: Last but not the least, thou shall avail the Extended and the Add-on warranty options, so as to prevent bill shocks from ensuing gearbox issues, if any

[Traveler]

What is the general opinion of moving the gear lever to Park position when standing at a red light. The car engine is running, brakes are not pressed and neither is the handbrake engaged. Will this lead to any issues.

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by Traveler

What is the general opinion of moving the gear lever to Park position when standing at a red light. The car engine is running, brakes are not pressed and neither is the handbrake engaged. Will this lead to any issues.

Yes this can lead to one big issue, a fight with the person who is behind you.

I have seen many people banging their cars while being too casual on red lights. The car slowly creeps backward and hit the other car. I have witnessed this scenario multiple times in Delhi/NCR. It can happen with all sort of cars, cabbies, manuals & automatics. I would suggest you to press the brake pedal or engage the handbrake in all cases.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Yes this can lead to one big issue, a fight with the person who is behind you.

I have seen many people banging their cars while being too casual on red lights. The car slowly creeps backward and hit the other car. I have witnessed this scenario multiple times in Delhi/NCR. It can happen with all sort of cars, cabbies, manuals & automatics. I would suggest you to press the brake pedal or engage the handbrake in all cases.

When the park mode is engaged the car cannot move. So the scenario you are stating cannot happen or am I missing something in your post.

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by Traveler

When the park mode is engaged the car cannot move. So the scenario you are stating cannot happen or am I missing something in your post.

Ah my bad, Sorry I didn't read it quite well on mobile. But again it is overkill and not advisable to move the lever to Park mode that frequently.

Saw something related:

Over Parking!
Every time you put the gear lever in P (parking), it stops the transmission from rotating and prevents the vehicle from moving.

Shifting to P and vice versa is like putting the transmission to sleep and waking it up. The process causes wear and tear. Therefore, it is advised to not engage into P when stopping for a short duration, like on a traffic signal.

Edit: We have a dedicated thread on this, didn't read it though. Hope it helps.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post2164182 (Automatics : P or N at signals / traffic lights?)

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Traveler

What is the general opinion of moving the gear lever to Park position when standing at a red light. The car engine is running, brakes are not pressed and neither is the handbrake engaged. Will this lead to any issues.

Originally Posted by Traveler

When the park mode is engaged the car cannot move. So the scenario you are stating cannot happen or am I missing something in your post.

Yes, the Park position locks the transmission so the vehicle cannot move, but it is not designed to be a brake, or to take the weight of the car, so should not be used without brakes.

This is what I was taught about driving any Automatic-transmission car, long, long ago. I'm wondering: does the owner's manual for this car say anything?

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by Traveler

What is the general opinion of moving the gear lever to Park position when standing at a red light. The car engine is running, brakes are not pressed and neither is the handbrake engaged. Will this lead to any issues.

When standing at a traffic signal/red light, it is typically suggested to shift into 'neutral' and not necessarily into 'parking' mode. The reason is that from a convenience point of view on a DSG, you just have to shift one notch on the gear lever to move into 'neutral'.

However, from a more technical perspective, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread - the parking lock mechanism is engaged purely mechanically via a 'Bowden' cable between the selector lever and the parking lock lever.

And this cable is what actuates the parking lock.

In a normal/standstill scenario, the cable can exert adequate tension via the in-built holding device to prevent the car from rolling away. However, in the case of a scenario in which there is sudden and overwhelming pressure on the parking lock/cable, the setup can go kaput and can cause serious damage to the associated gearbox element.

This is best examplified by a classical case when somebody possibly rear-ends your vehicle when the car is in 'parking' mode. Say, at a traffic signal by an idiot who is totally careless and ignorant about stopping in time.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Yes, the Park position locks the transmission so the vehicle cannot move, but it is not designed to be a brake, or to take the weight of the car, so should not be used without brakes.

Spot-on, sir. As always with you

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Summarizing few observations and practices in the form of 10 Commandments

I didn't quite get the 8th Commandment

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

However, from a more technical perspective, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread - the parking lock mechanism is engaged purely mechanically via a 'Bowden' cable between the selector lever and the parking lock lever.
And this cable is what actuates the parking lock.

In a normal/standstill scenario, the cable can exert adequate tension via the in-built holding device to prevent the car from rolling away.

That's one of the reason why, when I'm parking, I go to Neutral first, pull the handbrake lever, and put it into P in the end.

[itwasntme]

Wish my Octavia had the electronic parking brake like in the Passat and other premium cars.

Drove a Passat for 15 minutes and found it a blessing especially on hilly roads.

[Traveler]

Thanks for the detailed response to the P position and why not to use it on a Red Light.

This however begs the question to the basic use of the P position. If we are always supposed to put the Gear in N position, then apply the Handbrake and finally move the gear lever to P. Then what is the use of the P at all. Under which circumstances will putting the car in P position be of any help at all.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I didn't quite get the 8th Commandment

To elaborate on this point, let me put up the concerned diagram for the selector lever assembly:-



The primary function for the Hall sensors of the selector lever is to register the position of the lever and make it available to the mechatronics unit via the CAN bus.
Based on these signals, the control unit implements the driver's D or R or S or Tiptronic command and controls starter release.

Now, if the control unit detects incomplete or incorrect selector lever position attributed to improper lever movement by the driver, then the unit in turn, may not be able to comprehend or advise the correct clutch movements.

The incorrect movement also puts a lot of strain on the lever wiring harness, which could result in severe damage to the entire assembly.

Originally Posted by Traveler

Thanks for the detailed response to the P position and why not to use it on a Red Light.

This however begs the question to the basic use of the P position. If we are always supposed to put the Gear in N position, then apply the Handbrake and finally move the gear lever to P. Then what is the use of the P at all. Under which circumstances will putting the car in P position be of any help at all.

The vehicle is to be put in the "P" mode ideally only when you feel that the vehicle would need to be switched off or it is to be in a standstill position for a long time.