[anjan_c2007]

Another purely vested interest generated unscientific shocker from the Transport and Highways Ministry here with the E20 deadline of 2025. Lately, there have been only a few logical decisions by this Ministry whereas most of these are trash, hare brained decisions mostly meant to suit some handful of entities. Moreover, the Petroleum Ministry is maintaining a studied silence on the issue. The Central government has a host of fuel research laboratories under its control of whom none are heard of being assigned the task to conduct a dedicated research on such a major policy decision.

More opaque is the fact that ethanol though priced at around Rs 60 a litre may be only attracting GST and not separate Central, State and local body cesses like petrol and diesel. Hence, despite the present 10% blending, there is no price transparency by the Petroleum Ministry regarding any price reduction of petrol in the recent past, due to such a blending.

[Quoter]

Originally Posted by Vandit

So while I was researching in detail on both - I came across a somewhat worrying detail mentioned in the Jeep's owners manual, and that's to do with the fuel specifications, in particular - the petrol and the maximum blend of Ethanol that can be used. Guess what? The max that's recommended is a 10% ethanol blend.

Thanks for posting this. I was in a similar dilemma when considering a petrol vehicle since most vehicles in India are compatible only with E10 fuel and there is no reason for manufacturers to move to E20 since it will increase their manufacturing cost. The worst part is, there is no disclosure of the ethanol blending in the fuel which is being sold currently and the percentages vary from less than 5% to almost 10% in some locations.
Having said this, I still went ahead with a petrol vehicle with the hope that OMC's will be forced to launch a separate blend of E10 fuel as and when they decide to move to E20 since all existing vehicles, especially 2 wheelers are going to be incompatible with anything above E10.

Would anyone know if the premium fuels such as Xtra Premium (XP95) also come with E10 blend?

[superbad]

Originally Posted by Vandit

Well within the realistic ownership period targets of most buyers me thinks?

Checked out my Ciaz 1.3 petrol manual, & it's present there also. This means Maruti's entire range with the erstwhile 1.3 petrol has this stipulation.
Considering the huge number of such vehicles on the road, I think there will still be an option of non-blended petrol at all fuel pumps.

[abnormalspirit]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

I was expecting Ethanol to be dirt cheap.

As of right now, governments pay a lot of subsidy for sugar cane farmers, but if the government achieved E20 fuel across India, they could cut subsidies. Government can also reduce crude imports, so prices will be tallied .

[adneeraj]

Thanks for bringing this up @Vandit.
I checked the Jeep Compass manual and found a 7% mix tolerable by the diesel too. There had to be adherence to EN590 norms it says too.
I'm not sure what % blend the current diesel fuel in our market gets.
Going by the chemical composition, the blend does not just stop with adding Ethanol as I understand. They still need to add additives so that petrol and diesel keep their original properties and not cause any major challenge for the engine to burn the fuel.

[sagaranjos]

I just checked my Swift's (2013) recommendation and it is limited to 10% as well.

Do all petrol pumps already have 8.5% ethanol blended? How do I know how much ethanol is there in my petrol?

[sagaranjos]

Originally Posted by abnormalspirit

As of right now, governments pay a lot of subsidy for sugar cane farmers, but if the government achieved E20 fuel across India, they could cut subsidies. Government can also reduce crude imports, so prices will be tallied

Most of the government (especially UP and Maharashtra) are themselves either involved in sugarcane farming or are running sugar mills. I am sure they would have no qualms about this forced change in fuel blends.

[b16h22]

I don't know why people are not making a big fuss about even the current ethanol blend fuels. Ethanol in fuel is bad news for carburetors. And pretty much all small motorcycles (highest selling) have been running on carbs until bs6 adoption. They cause fuel separation and cause water to settle at bottom even if a little water finds inside the tank which is possible in motorcycles with not so great tank cap seals. And cause fuel system troubles. You can even see the warnings on this Honda website

[hsingh]

I read an article that mentioned the Ethanol mix fuel is not going to be as mileage friendly like the 91 grade petrol. The ethanol based fuel need ~20% additional fuel consumption to achieve the mileage gets from 91 grade petrol.

[abnormalspirit]

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

Most of the government (especially UP and Maharashtra) are themselves either involved in sugarcane farming or are running sugar mills. I am sure they would have no qualms about this forced change in fuel blends.

All this has to do with the vote bank, of course

[Anikesh11]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Frankly this E20 rollout is stupidity of the highest order. Encourages more sugar cane production - when we should be discouraging the production of such a wasteful water inefficient crop, messes up engines and supply chains and reduces driving pleasure. Unfortunately, politicians from every party are involved in the sugar mafias - and will roll these out.

I do hope they maintain the parallel supply of genuine petrol so that customers can retain an option, even if at a higher cost.

I think it's not sugar but corn/maize farming which govt wants to encourage through this route
Lot of heat which govt is getting from farmers in North are paddy growers who sell back to govt at msp
Currently they aren't incentivized to break this wheat paddy cycle and govt is hoping increased demand for ethanol might push them
Looking at the current scenario they would be keen on pushing these regulations aggressively
Also there is a line of thought that oil is imported and ethanol will be swadesi which is bizzare since we are depleting one very precious resource i.e. Water for this resource
Moving to electric and cleaner electric generation is what govt should ideally be focusing on

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Frankly this E20 rollout is stupidity of the highest order. Encourages more sugar cane production - when we should be discouraging the production of such a wasteful water inefficient crop, messes up engines and supply chains and reduces driving pleasure. Unfortunately, politicians from every party are involved in the sugar mafias - and will roll these out.

I do hope they maintain the parallel supply of genuine petrol so that customers can retain an option, even if at a higher cost.

Using arable land for non-food commercial crops that generate ethanol does not make sense. I believe the plan is to find a sink for agricultural waste by-products that result in stubble burning and pollution… by 2035 in any case EVs are expected to dominate the auto scene so it’s not going to be a forever solution in the grand scheme of things.

Originally Posted by sagaranjos

Most of the government (especially UP and Maharashtra) are themselves either involved in sugarcane farming or are running sugar mills. I am sure they would have no qualms about this forced change in fuel blends.

And win over the farmer lobby currently controlled by power dada…

[Anwesh]

It seems that the government wants to divert excess sugar production that is exported. The aim is to use this for ethenol production and save on export subsidies.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.bus...0600240_1.html

Regards,

[TrackDay]

I have this issue with my scooter which is a 2011 Suzuki access 125 where for the past 2 or 3 months, randomly it feels like the engine is not getting sufficient fuel. At zero throttle sometimes the engine shuts down too. The air filter is clean and this issue though rare only pops up at very low speeds. When I took it to an FNG, the mechanic checked and said it is most likely the the carburetor. He said there are a lot of two wheelers suffering currently from such issues and he said the reason being the recent presence of ethanol in fuel. Since I was busy and have other rides, I postponed any works until I read this thread. I am not aware and don't have much idea about fuel grades. I am planning to service my 2 wheeler and get the necessary work done. But what should I watch out for in the future to avoid this ? In Kerala all I have seen at the petrol stations are either normal fuel or premium.

Can someone explain in layman terms what we should watch out for and the fuel that will be suitable for older rides ?

[zing007]

I have checked the Ford Figo/Aspire's owners manual and it also mentions the limits for biodiesel and ethanol. See below that it is only safe with 10% ethanol in petrol.
I personally feel when 20% ethanol will be mixed with petrol, it will be launched as a separate brand and there would be separate engines for it. (It is still a guess) But when such fuel would be launched it will also come with additives to prevent knocking etc. in older engines.