[Chevyspark]

Originally Posted by condor

Which part of an engine would suffer most due to the ethanol content ?

Any engine component or fuel system. Worst may be if ethanol content present in the petrol may turned into water, when it may come in contact with it. The government is planning to roll out 12% ethanol from 1st April.

[toyotafanboi]

https://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...t-2513076.html

This is not good. Every fuel station should have Ethanol percentage clearly labelled.

[anjan_c2007]

They are hiking ethanol prices. This news report from today also says that this hike is a precursor to the forthcoming 20% ethanol blending proposal by the government, preparations for which could be kick-started soon.

The price per litre of ethanol extracted from sugarcane juice will be Rs 65.60 p, after the hike as compared to the present Rs 63.45 p per litre, wef December 2022. They are also hiking the rates per litre of ethanol from B-heavy and C-heavy molasses as mentioned.



Two questions are pertinent in this context:-

(1) Despite these increases, the price per litre for ethanol will be about Rs 65 plus 5% GST, with the total cost per litre roughly at Rs 68=00. If they are presently blending 10% of ethanol in petrol worth Rs 108/- per litre, the cost of petrol would be Rs 97 (petrol 90%) + Rs 6.80 (ethanol 10%).The total cost of petrol would be Rs 103.80 p after it is blended with 10% ethanol. The price differential benefit of around Rs 4.20 p ( Rs 108=00 - Rs 103.80 = Rs 4.20 p ) has not been passed to the consumers since Day 1, when this blending business commenced a year ago. There is no transparency being maintained by oil marketing companies (OMC's). It amounts to taking consumers for a ride. Petrol attracts high central and state sales taxes at the old rates, not GST like ethanol.

(2) Has any research by some accredited fuel research labs (so many under the government) been ever done to study the harmful effects of such ethanol blending on vehicles that are not compatible with such blended fuel? The present, newer breed of vehicles can only safely accept 10% of ethanol blended petrol. And the older vehicles, mostly from the last millennium including all vintages and many from about 10-15 years ago are simply not compatible with such blended fuel. The fuel lines, tank, fuel pump, carburettor and engine, engine gaskets are fast getting affected and are becoming victims of such blending. Scanning through several notes on the topic, I could not find any such report where the blended fuel was tested and approved by any accredited laboratory for older, non blended fuel compatible, motor vehicles. Here too, the consumer is bring taken for a joy ride. With 20% blending the worries of such vehicle owners will surely aggravate.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Two questions are pertinent in this context:-

(1) Despite these increases, the price per litre for ethanol will be about Rs 65 plus 5% GST, the total cost per litre roughly at Rs 68=00. If they are presently blending 10% in petrol worth Rs 108/- per litre, the cost of petrol would be Rs 97 (petrol 90%) + Rs 6.80 (ethanol 10%).The total cost of petrol would be Rs 103.80 p blended with 10% ethanol. The price differential benefit of around Rs 4.20 p has not been passed to the consumers since Day 1 when this blending business commenced a year ago. It amounts to taking consumers for a ride.

(2) Has any research by some accredited fuel research labs (so many under the government) been ever done to study the harmful effects of such ethanol blending on vehicles that are not compatible with such blended fuel? The newer breed of vehicles can only safely accept 10% ethanol blended petrol. And the older vehicles, mostly from the last millennium including all vintages and many from about 10-15 years ago are simply not compatible with such blended fuel. The fuel lines, tank, fuel pump, carburettor and engine are fast getting affected and are becoming victims of such blending. Scanning through several notes on the topic, I could not find any such report where the blended fuel was tested and approved for older, non blended fuel compatible, motor vehicles. Here too, the consumer is bring taken for a joy ride. With 20% blending the worries of vehicle owner will surely aggravate.

Very pertinent questions indeed. But let's be real. Very few in this country actually give a damn.

As long as the government keeps promoting our ancient culture, traditions and keeps projecting the west at the ultimate baddies (throw in a few good performances by our EAM and petroleum minister once in a while), they are golden.

As far as I am concerned, I simply decided two years back to never purchase a new vehicle in India (I am constantly tempted though). I don't want the government to have another avenue to get my hard-earned money while they kick back with 40% commissions from the public works that are supposed to improve the quality of my life.

I guess what we need is an organic grassroots moment like the Egyptians to bring these babus to their senses.

[SR-71]

I found this interesting chart on wiki that highlights parts that are possibly impacted due E20 fuel blend. There are few in the list that is enough to worry me and think twice before putting down big money on new gasoline powered car today unless it is certified for E20.



The government should at least provide for E10 fuel in addition to E20 with price differential.

[SR-71]

Niti Aayog's draft proposal on ethanol blending has the following roadmap picture based on SIAM's recommendation. If I read it right, E10 supply will be completely stopped by 2028 until which point it should be available as a protection grade option. So new E10 petrol cars may have a safety option for the next 5 years, but probably not beyond that, I suppose.

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by SR-71

Niti Aayog's draft proposal on ethanol blending has the following roadmap picture based on SIAM's recommendation. If I read it right, E10 supply will be completely stopped by 2028 until which point it should be available as a protection grade option. So new E10 petrol cars may have a safety option for the next 5 years, but probably not beyond that, I suppose.
Attachment 2394135

So if E10 supply ends at 2028, that's an 8 year run. E15 seems to have only a 6 year run. This simply implies that the govt expects people to buy a car and dump it after 6-8 years of use. Funny how we're expected to pay 15 years of lifetime tax apart from minimum 29% tax before registration.

Also shows that the policy makers are completely not in touch with reality and are very poor decision makers.

At this rate, I wouldn't even want to buy an expensive car knowing very well that it's going to be dumped prematurely.

[navrddy]

I had commented on this miscalculation by government, in next 8-10 years we will have E20 fuel already becoming mainstream, probably in a different thread. For all those who invested on expensive gasoline vehicle, it is huge letdown. Most of us buy vehicles to keep for another 10+ years atleast, this will come as shocker. Henceforth i decided if i need to buy a combustion vehicle for long term, only after E20 Material complaint vehicle is available or worst case buy diesel if vehicle is needed urgently.
Also vehicle warranty is void, if any fuel other than maximum E10 fuel is put into Petrol Tank. I tried to get clarity from most manufacturers, no one gave clear answer.

[Shreyans_Jain]

This is going to become a huge issue for people queuing to buy cars like the Innova HyCross, Kodiaq, and the petrol versions of the likes of XUV700, 3 Series, C Class etc. None of these cars are E20 compliant. Long term usability of all these cars is going to take a hit, unless manufacturers really step and offer some kind of a retrofit option to convert them into E20 OK spec. That’s a very long shot.

Diesel has anyway become a bit of a taboo for us NCR people, plus the real world DPF issues in just about every BS6 car. God knows what more will happen with BS 6.2

You can’t buy a petrol car peacefully, you can’t buy a diesel car peacefully.
End result will be that the government wins, the sugar lobby wins, the car manufacturers win, the dealers and service people win and the tax paying customer looses.

[vijaykr]

Came across this article which has some discussion across the involved stakeholders on this Ethanol blending topic.

​Why stakeholders are squabbling over ethanol https://www.livemint.com/economy/ins...3371648125.htm

Don't know where we will end up finally. I am worried having bought a new car just a couple of months ago

[lapis_lazuli]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

Came across this article which has some discussion across the involved stakeholders on this Ethanol blending topic.

​Why stakeholders are squabbling over ethanol https://www.livemint.com/economy/ins...3371648125.htm

Don't know where we will end up finally. I am worried having bought a new car just a couple of months ago

The link doesn't work. Maybe it has been taken down as a result of having exposed something sensitive

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

The link doesn't work. Maybe it has been taken down as a result of having exposed something sensitive

My apologies. Please use the below link which should work:

https://www.livemint.com/economy/ins...371648125.html

I think in my copy/paste only .htm at end of the link got copied instead of .html

[sudiptaadhya]

Is there a fuel outlet / fuel type that doesn't have blended petrol? Foe example does Shell use blended petrol or is XP95 / vPower petrol ethanol free?

[anjan_c2007]

Definition:-

Illicit brewing by businessmen to generate profits for these businessmen + cronies, fleece petrol vehicle owners and manipulate the fuel lines and combustion process of their machines.

Outcome:-

These machines are made to perform under gun point and ultimately succumb to the poisonous, ill effects of the illicit brew.

Legality:-

The illicit brew has since been legalised by these businessmen and their cronies.

[jalex77]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Frankly this E20 rollout is stupidity of the highest order. Encourages more sugar cane production - when we should be discouraging the production of such a wasteful water inefficient crop, messes up engines and supply chains and reduces driving pleasure. Unfortunately, politicians from every party are involved in the sugar mafias - and will roll these out.

I do hope they maintain the parallel supply of genuine petrol so that customers can retain an option, even if at a higher cost.

Here's more about that in this article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dow...y-green--78018