[landcruiser123]

Sucks that you got a lemon. Seems like you prioritize peace of mind over everything else.

Get an Innova Crysta. There are very few cars with the combination of comfort+practicality+reliability of the Toyota. Your family will love the car.

Originally Posted by Hayek

As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable.

Unfair to make such a statement. All the parts like tensioner, timing belt, clutch systems, steering columns etc mentioned by OP are nothing revolutionary and have been made for decades; Manufacturing and quality control should be perfected in 2020.

Of the rogue bunch, some manufacturers struggle with execution in manufacturing (like Tata) and others don't bother designing for Indian conditions(like Skoda).

Forget Toyotas, Hondas, (older) Hyundais or Marutis. I knew a neighbor (a contractor to NHAI) who had 2 scorpios (with the 2.6 diesel engine) bought within the first six months of launch. He had well over 300k on each car, all on remote highways/construction zones and places with no roads.

[IP_Man]

Originally Posted by Hayek

As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable.

Agree but failure of major engine components is not accepted at all for the new car.

@OP: present your case in consumer court with proper evidence and demand heavy compensation for the mental agony or replacement for this car.

[satya180]

Hi,
I was in the same car buying boat recently, and being an ex Innova owner (happy and totally niggle free ownership from 2011 to 2018), i did not even see or test drive any other car and put my money down on an Innova Crysta GX 2.4D AT.

The Compass, Safari, XUV7OO, Hector Plus were also considered, but limited to online comparisons, as they were priced in the same bracket.

The Innova loses on a few things that the competition offers like sunroof, virtual cockpit, van looks yet gives a lot back in return in terms of reliability and peace of mind. The instrument cluster in the top variants is beautiful and can put most mass market digital speedos to shame. The subtle ambient lighting works well. The car is comfortable and spacious in all rows, a boon for high mileage cars. It has what you need and everything works well.

The 2.7 P and 2.4 diesel are both pretty decent engines, with a high factor of safety for long term reliability. A lot of performance upgrades are available if you're looking for more power. Also if you don't mind getting a used car, the 2.8 diesel AT is a great pick thanks to that stonker of an engine.

The Jeep Compass is a great car, a perfect enthusiasts choice. It would be my choice too if I wanted a 4 seater, but I wanted a 4+1 (child seat) seater minimum.

Choose whether youre okay counting your losses now (over later), the Harrier could fail again and that's not a good feeling to live with. I recently lived that with our 2008 Fabia, got stranded once when I was with my dad, and sold it within a week of that.

Heart over mind is a matter of choice, choose a car that will keep you and your family happier for longer.

[Mustang Sammy]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

[*]The car already had done about 350kms on the ODO which they did not inform me at[/list]

This is enough reason to not have accepted the car. 350km on the Odo for a brand new car is completely unacceptable.

[vivek.singh.73]

Originally Posted by IP_Man

Agree but failure of major engine components is not accepted at all for the new car.

@OP: present your case in consumer court with proper evidence and demand heavy compensation for the mental agony or replacement for this car.

Unfortunately, approaching the court suggestion can only come from the people who have not tried the Indian courts - it's corrupt to the core and manufacturers know how to play it well - the best outcome after years in court would be a settlement that won't give you much! Most likely you would give up before that ...

[kaps454]

Hi,
Been driving tata cars for quite some time now, starting from the Sierra (still my favourite). Have a Harrier too, wife's daily ride. I use either the zest or nexon, so as you can see, lots of tata cars in the family. Been lucky so far.
You probably ended up with a "minor" lemon as far as the the clutch hose goes ( it was a metal pipe routed near the firewall in the earlier safaris)
Someone already told you an easy practical fix, ask your local mechanic to reinforce it. You can try wrapping it with fiberglass tape smothered with a bit of a durable adhesive such as araldite (pidilte makes it under some fevi-name in india)
If you are happy with the car otherwise, keep it, guess u have been through the worst and most niggles would have been sorted. Happy miles ahead

[kaps454]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Between friends and family, just off the top of my head I think I know more than 10 people with Altos/Swifts/Dzires etc. who've literally never had a breakdown, irrespective of where they've gone and what sort of fuel they've used. They are normal people who get their cars serviced once a year and don't take any other preventative measures, no underbody rust coating or paint protection or extended warranty or anything else.

Well, let me give my Tata experience
Sierra - scrapped at nearly 3 lakhs kms, the last trip it made was delhi-agra, back to delhi and then dharmashala. Engine overhauled at 1.5 lakh kms, no major parts changed, just cleaned and reused
Safari - sold 2.25 lakhs, engine had lost a few horses, not fun to drive.
Safari - sold at 1.8 or 2 lakhs, had rusting issues, last year of ownership, tailgate, which is why was sold "early"
Vista - TDi Diesel, changed fuel pump at 35 K, OEM (Lucas i think) said that the reason for pump failure was because car was being filled using the "sludge buster" additive containing diesel ( i used to use that only). That diesel has a lower viscosity and was not lubricating the fuel pump. The owners manual mentioned not to use such fuels for the Quadrajet but was silent on the TDi. Got some concession from the TASS when i pointed that out.
Current drives:-
Nano about 5 years old, used for company errands, so dont know kms covered, routine maintenance and no issues so far.
Zest XT 2015 1 lakh kms covered, dashboard starting to vibrate with bass a bit, else no other issues.
Nexon XZA, dad's drive. around 50K, no issues but he is not happy with the AMT (personal preference)
Harrier, wife's car, around 5 K, new, awaiting issues if any.
Amaze, terrible rusting issues at all seams and welds, rear suspension has practically given way, fuel filler lid has perforations due to rusting. Engine not torquey but peppy, (that is the only part of the car I like) around 60 K, wife's old car, not being used much anymore. 2014

So how is that for normally serviced cars that have been almost everywhere?

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

I don’t see any sense in paying 30L+ for a Compass, unless it absolutely is the top end diesel 4x4 automatic. That, only if you plan to put the hardware to good use.

Completely disagree. The quality, driving dynamics, feature set are easily worth it. The petrol auto is perfectly fine for what it is - a city slicker. I can't understand why everyone seems to want to drag race in their cars.

[voldemort]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

So I wanted an ENTHUSIAST’s car with these priorities – Looks, comfort, build, safety, space, ride, handling, performance, reliability, high seating position.

You're looking for a unicorn. The perfect car. I doubt if it exists.

And you also said features are not your top priority, but you also only want the top end variant.

It has been my observation that generally, as performance and handling increases

• reliability decreases
• seating position gets lower
• ride quality tends to deteriorate

You're going to have to make some tradeoffs.

If I were you, I'd either get the more reliable but less dynamically accomplished Crysta, because getting stranded in the middle of nowhere with family on board is the worst. (Also, I just read on this forum (2021 Toyota Fortuner DPF Issues) that Fortuner has DPF problems and the Crysta is mechanically similar, so fingers crossed on that).

Or, put up with the Harrier for a year more, and see if it has improved. If it's trouble-free, great; else evaluate the XUV7OO which by then would hopefully have ironed out its initial niggles if any.

Having said all that, I don't know if you have the budget, but I feel those BMW X series SUVs might actually satisfy most of your criteria, and newer BMWs tend to be reliable according to other bhpians. Perhaps consider a slightly used X3?

Originally Posted by Hayek

As I have said on some other threads, expecting cars to never break down in our road conditions, with the kind of rampant fuel adulteration that takes place is not reasonable.
...
and so the occasional breakdown should not be a big deal.

I politely disagree. There's no reason to put up with breakdowns.

Here's our own experience — our 2005 Chevy Optra 1.8 LT lasted 12 years and 1.3 lakh kilometres without a single breakdown, or any other non breakdown problems. Bulletproof.

Our Honda City diesel is nearly 7 years old, and barring the less than ideal material quality of the interiors, the car has been running absolutely flawless, as far as engine and gearbox is concerned. (We did have a tail lamp that fused out, and a horn that failed, but those two were quickly resolved, and each costed less than ₹500 to fix).

Infact, we liked the City's reliability so much that we went ahead and bought another City diesel in 2018 when we needed an additional car. Both of them are running flawlessly. Touchwood.

Granted, these are not exactly driver's cars, but the point I'm trying to make is that reliable cars do exist.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by kaps454

Well, let me give my Tata experience

So how is that for normally serviced cars that have been almost everywhere?

You are simply reinforcing his point; cars can be expected to be reliable in the 21st century. Karanddd was merely replying to Hayek's post about how the OP should be grateful that his car only broke down on "few occasions" considering he covered 32k kms in it. I guess maybe you did not read the posts thoroughly and what they were in response to.

[992TurboS]

Quite unfortunate that you didn't have a satisfactory experience with your Harrier. Hassle free ownership seems to be a premium these days and we don't get the satisfaction even after paying the premium. As Harrier's pricing kept increasing steadily since BS6, you may consider selling it and get a decent value as your car is still in warranty.

I've hardly seen anyone recommend you the underrated diesel Hyundai Tucson. It's got ~180BHP, enough power for Indian road conditions and it's planted on the highway. It's a practical car. You mentioned "features" are the least of your priorities? Yes, may not match Creta / Seltos level gizmos but the car is decently loaded.
Your criteria includes:
Looks: Although it's subjective, this car looks beautiful.
Build and safety: It's got all the necessary safety features. Check.
Comfort and space: It's got good seating and a decent boot, the cabin is really silent till you dos some crazy speeds. Check.
Ride, handling and performance: Check. The ride is a little soft, but not as uncomfortable as a Fortuner due to body roll. You mentioned long highway drives, it's comfortable enough for cross country drives. The Diesel engine has got quite the punch and the torque converter shifts to the right gear and never gets confused. You will enjoy this car a lot on straight highways but don't expect fun on twisty roads. You may want to check the official and recent reviews by @QuadraticAmoeba 's review and @LONG_TOURER 's review (Hyundai Tucson GLS 2WD CRDi Ownership Review), they'd be more than happy to chime in and recommend you the car.
Reliability, high seating position: Check. It's a CKD model, so you won't notice frequent niggles like other Hyundais. It's definitely got a higher seating position.

I feel, it's worth the test drive!

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by GTO

@ BHPians, please, please, please adhere to the below advice:

While i totally agree with the post and the general sentiment and there should be extreme caution to be practiced in case of certain manufacturers but having owned a number of day 1 cars in the past, i would say the excitement and happiness especially in case of a car enthusiast like us is unparalleled.

The cars my family has owned in the very first batch/first days of launch are
1-Toyota Corolla (Gen 1)
2-Maruti Swift (Gen 1) (Even got a sort of plastic award/plank kind of thing for owning the car belonging to the first batch)
3-Honda Civic
4-Honda City (4th Gen)

Now that i have made this list, co-indecently all these cars are of Japanese origin and we have had absolutely zero real issues with all these cars and they have served us very well, there were even no real niggles to speak of.
I remember the 4th gen City just dropped without any testing in India or anywhere we know of and may have been tested internally.
Bottom line is if the manufacturer is reliable enough and know their job (Japanese lead this list but the Koreans are not far behind)
There is nothing to worry about.

[Durango Dude]

Just have a look at their FB page and posts of their customers there. Not one favorable post to be seen...


https://www.facebook.com/TataMotorsGroup

[viXit]

I can't stand Tata glorifying Toyota reliability. I know of more Innova Crystas breaking down than my Tata. Every car has its issues and it's just that Tata employs imbeciles who can't acknowledge the issues when they arise.

It's 2021, all IC cars are supposed to be more reliable than expecting it to breakdown in the middle of nowhere.

I have had a Tata Safari Storme since 2013 and I put it through tremendous abuse. No Issues. They are good. Your service centre is a piece of crap. Tata service centres suck!! Make this viral and make Tata pay for its poor quality with all this bad PR. How are other Harrier owners not having this issue? This needs more investigation.

All cars are pretty sorted nowadays. Older platforms and engines especially are doing great! Just compare the number of breakdown and niggles threads. As owners grow less and less mechanically literate, and more and more people push Toyotas whenever another brand has an issue, Toyota will keep increasing it's pricing shamelessly and loot customers for lackluster experiences after spending half a crore.

I have to agree that it's for not wrong, But this makes me livid at other brands. Especially Tata. You give those fools a perfectly fine car and they will screw it up even if it's just a general service.

OP! Investigate further!, push for a team from Tata coming and investigating your car. Join the harrier groups and find out if someone has had these issues, reach out to other news agencies if Team-BHP is not enough. Make Tata come down and do an RCA on your car. They have to fix it.

If you don't have patience, sell it to a dealer and buy a newer more sorted Harrier from the used market. Scour the Harrier threads and groups for common issues and check them in those Harriers.

And why the heck was your timing hardware replaced, please be sure to document this here. I'm very curious

EDIT
Ccheck this out. The first thing I see after this post is this! Even Toyotas have issues. It comes down to who fixes them well.

[bravo82in]

Once a lemon is always a lemon. The first batch of Harriers are unreliable machines. Just sell off the car and do a lateral upgrade. Harrier is selling in good numbers and getting a good price won't be difficult. Will suggest going for Crysta 2.8 AT or last gen Fortuner. Utterly Butterly reliable machines and Toyota service is an experience in itself.
I had a lemon called Tata Aria. Link to my thread (Tata Aria Pride 4x4: Owner's pain & frustration. EDIT: Saves 3 lives in an accident!) Took the wrong call of keeping it hoping things will improve. That never happened. One issue after another kept propping up. The car visited workshop more than 60 times in 7 years. The product failed in the market and I could never find buyers. Brother sell your lemon till the market is hot for preowned Harriers.