[cyberwhizs]

Thanks @greenhorn
Anybody face a similar issue? any insights on points 2 & 3

[AutoIndian]

Thought of sharing this with you. 10 days back I was haunted again by the hot
crank problem. What happened was that when I entered in my office car park I was
hunting for parking space. The one hour drive to office was in choc-a-block
traffic & the temp needle was hovering around centre mark, AC on, blower at 1
position. I was in first gear with AC on. Just when I spotted a vacant bay 5
meters ahead & was about to occupy it, the engine died down as I lifted my left
foot from clutch pedal. Gave the ignition key, waited for couple of seconds
after glow plug indicator vanished & gave a crank. Felt as if there was no juice
left in the battery, starter motor could just manage to rotate the crank shaft
but could not put engine to life. Waited for some time, gave another try, same
result. Tried this 5-6 times after some time interval, but no success. The temp
needle was still hovering around midway mark. Finally walked out of the car.
Informed the two parking attendants that my car had a starting problem & it was
blocking the way. The willingly came forward to help me push the car in the
parking bay. This happened around 01:30pm.


Then at 07:00pm went back to the car. Gave the ignition key. After a gap of
5.5 hours, the engine had cooled down & the temp needle was at extreme left.
Counting 6-7 seconds after the glow plug indicator went off, cranked the engine
& it came to life in half turn of the key, amazing.

Experts pl comment. Today I was fortunate that this happened in the office car
park, god forbid if this happens bang in the middle of the road. I don't want to
get into that situation. What would be the remedy?

[musicmanaman]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Thought of sharing this with you. 10 days back I was haunted again by the hot
crank problem. What happened was that when I entered in my office car park I was
hunting for parking space. The one hour drive to office was in choc-a-block
traffic & the temp needle was hovering around centre mark, AC on, blower at 1
position. I was in first gear with AC on. Just when I spotted a vacant bay 5
meters ahead & was about to occupy it, the engine died down as I lifted my left
foot from clutch pedal. Gave the ignition key, waited for couple of seconds
after glow plug indicator vanished & gave a crank. Felt as if there was no juice
left in the battery, starter motor could just manage to rotate the crank shaft
but could not put engine to life. Waited for some time, gave another try, same
result. Tried this 5-6 times after some time interval, but no success. The temp
needle was still hovering around midway mark. Finally walked out of the car.
Informed the two parking attendants that my car had a starting problem & it was
blocking the way. The willingly came forward to help me push the car in the
parking bay. This happened around 01:30pm.


Then at 07:00pm went back to the car. Gave the ignition key. After a gap of
5.5 hours, the engine had cooled down & the temp needle was at extreme left.
Counting 6-7 seconds after the glow plug indicator went off, cranked the engine
& it came to life in half turn of the key, amazing.

Experts pl comment. Today I was fortunate that this happened in the office car
park, god forbid if this happens bang in the middle of the road. I don't want to
get into that situation. What would be the remedy?

How old is your battery? I suspect the battery needs a replacement.

[cyberwhizs]

Just an update,

Got the wiper link assembly and motor serviced at Lucas TVS outlet.
Costs:
Link assembly overhaul : 300
Wiper Motor overhaul : 200
Worm gear & bush : 150
Total : 650/-

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

...the hot crank problem.

Get your starter motor serviced. It's either worn carbon brushes or a burnt out solenoid contact point. That will solve your problem.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by musicmanaman

How old is your battery? I suspect the battery needs a replacement.

My battery (Exide Battery - Type: MHD700) is exactly 2.5 years old, done 47K kms. However I have checked the battery voltage while cranking & it is between 11-12V which is fine.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Get your starter motor serviced. It's either worn carbon brushes or a burnt out solenoid contact point. That will solve your problem.

You are probably right. When I asked the Lucas centre over the phone that I am facing this hot start problem, the guy said that the starter needs to be overhauled, cost will be around 3.2K. This would involve replacement of the armature, bushes, brush, solenoid etc. Do I really need to get this done or a mere replacement of the solenoid should serve my purpose?

[indivic]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

You are probably right. When I asked the Lucas centre over the phone that I am facing this hot start problem, the guy said that the starter needs to be overhauled, cost will be around 3.2K. This would involve replacement of the armature, bushes, brush, solenoid etc. Do I really need to get this done or a mere replacement of the solenoid should serve my purpose?

Considering your car is from 2004, did you get the starter motor replaced under warranty ? Till 2005 I think the cars came with 0.8 kW starter motor and then Tata upgraded it to 1.1 kW, and for the cars under warranty provided a replacement FOC.

I would suggest to check that as well when you go for overhauling and if possible get the armature changed to the uprated one.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by indivic

Considering your car is from 2004, did you get the starter motor replaced under warranty ? Till 2005 I think the cars came with 0.8 kW starter motor and then Tata upgraded it to 1.1 kW, and for the cars under warranty provided a replacement FOC.

I would suggest to check that as well when you go for overhauling and if possible get the armature changed to the uprated one.

Thanks indivic for the info. Yes I was aware of the 0.8 to 1.1kW upgrade. I believe in one of my prior services at TASC, my starter was sent to Lucas for the upgrade, but I guess they just replaced the carbon brushes & some bush, esle I wouldn't have faced this problem, isn't it?

Any idea how much would the starter overhaul cost & the break-up of charges?

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Any idea how much would the starter overhaul cost & the break-up of charges?

Got the starter overhauled at Lucas TVS today.

The part & labor charges were as follows:

26256557 - Armature Assly - 1 Nos 1,118.00
26240135 - Solenoid Switch - 1 Nos 1,177.00
26240489 - Brush Gear Assly - 1 Nos 241.00
26254707 - Needle Bearing - 1 Nos 99.00
26243995 - Needle Bearing - 1 Nos 99.00
Add M-VAT @ 12.5% 341.75
Total - Part Charges 3076.00

Starter Servicing charges 200.00

Total Part & Labor charges - 3276.00

Car engine now sounds very sweet while starting. The real test would be how the starter behaves when the engine is extremely hot. Can test this only on Tuesday after reaching office, till then fingers crossed

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

...the starter needs to be overhauled, cost will be around 3.2K. This would involve replacement of the armature, bushes, brush, solenoid etc. Do I really need to get this done or a mere replacement of the solenoid should serve my purpose?

Sorry but I missed that post - was away for a couple of days.

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

26256557 - Armature Assly - 1 Nos 1,118.00
The real test would be how the starter behaves when the engine is extremely hot. Can test this only on Tuesday after reaching office, till then fingers crossed

Replacement of the armature assembly appears to be the only questionable expense - damage to the armature is uncommon.

Indeed, would wait to hear your 'hot start' report!

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Sorry but I missed that post - was away for a couple of days.

No issues SS-T. Actually I couldn't afford to wait for any feedback or suggestions. As the sun is getting hotter by the day, I didn't want to take any chances of getting stranded in the middle of the road. More so because each day I start for office at 12:00 noon in blazing hot sun & reach my destination around 01:00pm. Hence straightaway went for the overhaul.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Replacement of the armature assembly appears to be the only questionable expense - damage to the armature is uncommon. Indeed, would wait to hear your 'hot start' report!

You are probably right. Apparently even I didn't see any damage on the armature. However mine being the OEM starter, the original armature, I believe, cam with a lesser rating (0.8kW) & I hope the new one fitted is of a higher rating (1.1kW).

Will keep the group posted on my observations.

[AutoIndian]

Even before I could put the starter to test, the car tested my patience. Reached home @ 04:00pm on Saturday. Sunday morning rotated the tyres, removed one
puncture myself (tubeless tyre puncture repair kit came in handy). Then washed the car & alloys. It was almost 12:00 at noon. Tried to start the car, but it refused, tried thrice but no use. Got out of the car, gave 3-4 strokes to the priming pump, it became tight. Now gave the ignition key, engine came to life though hesitatingly. This was a clear case of air leaking in fuel line (after a gap of 20 hours). Called up Lucas TVS & explained them the problem. The guy there told me to bring the car so that they can have a look.

On reaching there I told the mechanic the sequence of events & hinted to the improper fitment of the fuel filters. He removed both the filter elements. Both seemed to be fine, also the "O" rings were good. He then inspected the fuel tank, but then found it to be new, hence ruled out the possibility of air leaking through tank. He then had a look at the Base Plate (The plate which fits on top of the two filter elements) & said that the gap between the rubber diaphragm & valve had increased though minutely. Got a new piece for comparison. Though it was difficult to believe for the naked eye, I gave him the go ahead to replace the plate which was costing Rs 430.00. There was no other obvious reason for the leaking air. He fitted the filter back on the car with new copper washers. Came back home @ 04:00pm. Today I am planing to repeat the scenario, ie start the car @ 12:00pm, lets see if the issue had been sorted out.

[CRDIsamir]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Even before I could put the starter to test, the car tested my patience. Reached home @ 04:00pm on Saturday. Sunday morning rotated the tyres, removed one
puncture myself (tubeless tyre puncture repair kit came in handy). Then washed the car & alloys. It was almost 12:00 at noon. Tried to start the car, but it refused, tried thrice but no use. Got out of the car, gave 3-4 strokes to the priming pump, it became tight. Now gave the ignition key, engine came to life though hesitatingly. This was a clear case of air leaking in fuel line (after a gap of 20 hours). Called up Lucas TVS & explained them the problem. The guy there told me to bring the car so that they can have a look.

On reaching there I told the mechanic the sequence of events & hinted to the improper fitment of the fuel filters. He removed both the filter elements. Both seemed to be fine, also the "O" rings were good. He then inspected the fuel tank, but then found it to be new, hence ruled out the possibility of air leaking through tank. He then had a look at the Base Plate (The plate which fits on top of the two filter elements) & said that the gap between the rubber diaphragm & valve had increased though minutely. Got a new piece for comparison. Though it was difficult to believe for the naked eye, I gave him the go ahead to replace the plate which was costing Rs 430.00. There was no other obvious reason for the leaking air. He fitted the filter back on the car with new copper washers. Came back home @ 04:00pm. Today I am planing to repeat the scenario, ie start the car @ 12:00pm, lets see if the issue had been sorted out.

The TVS Guy could be right. You yourself can check for the working of the Filter head. Heres how.

1. Remove the filter plate from the vehicle.
2. Remove both the filters and the primer.
3. Fill in Diesel into the cavity where the hand primer sits.
4. The level ofthe diesel filled must stay nas it is for a long time.
5. If thwe level drops then the Filter head needs to be replaced.
6. Check the Hand Primer for suction by holding it against your hand and lifting the plunger.
7. The pump should hold the skin of your palm with a good suction for atleast 30sec of time.
8. If the suction is low then you have to change the Hand primer as well.


CHEERS !

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Today I am planing to repeat the scenario, ie start the car @ 12:00pm, lets see if the issue had been sorted out.

Exactly at the stroke of 12 today, cranked the engine & relief at last, no hesitation, it came to life instantly. Now I am not sure whether this issue could have been sorted out simply by removing & refitting the filter elements or the new base plate has really made the difference. I have kept the old base plate with me. May be at the 100K service when I replace the primary filter element I would give the old plate a re-try.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by CRDIsamir

The TVS Guy could be right. You yourself can check for the working of the Filter head. Heres how.

1. Remove the filter plate from the vehicle.
2. Remove both the filters and the primer.
3. Fill in Diesel into the cavity where the hand primer sits.
4. The level ofthe diesel filled must stay nas it is for a long time.
5. If thwe level drops then the Filter head needs to be replaced.
6. Check the Hand Primer for suction by holding it against your hand and lifting the plunger.
7. The pump should hold the skin of your palm with a good suction for atleast 30sec of time.
8. If the suction is low then you have to change the Hand primer as well.


CHEERS !

Thanks for your detailed explanation CRDIsamir. Wish I had known this earlier while I was at Lucas. Anyways the Hand Primer suction test by holding it against palm and lifting the plunger was carried out by them & plunger seemed to be fine, as the suction was holding hand skin. However the other test of filling diesel in the cavity where the hand primer sits was not carried out. The recommendation for new plate was made merely by visual inspection of the old plate. Nevertheless I am happy that the issue has been fixed. Will carry out the test with old plate next time.