[Raghu Srinivasa]

Hi Fellas,
This is a wonderful thread for the folks saddled with a fairly un-cooperative car.
Having read this thread from end to end, I am becoming increasingly nervous about the state of my car and seek advice on what to do next, which includes selling the car!

Vehicle - Indica Turbo DLG
Year - Jun 07
Kms done -61000
Last Service - 58000 Kms (Earlier than scheduled)
Tyres Uprated - Accelere's 185/60/R14 @ 40 K due to a faulty TASS diagnosis
All services have been at Concorde Motors, Dairy Circle Bangalore..

The Good points.

1. Getting 14 KM without AC in a city full of potholes and speed breakers.(50 backbreakers in my daily run)
2. Acceleration remains brisk -
3. A/C works beautifully after some damage repair at 53 K.

Points of Concern
1. Train Engine style idling. Diagnosed as FIP problem. Started at 40 K and getting progressively worse everytime TASS has a look at it. Should have pressed for replacement during warranty but didn't. Help.
2. The Vibrations from idling seem to run through the car and very irritating
3. The battery indicator is on initially at the start and dissapears after some running. The problem started immediately after one of the paid services and hence blame it on TASS guys rather anything being wrong with it. Acid spillage can be observed though.
4. The temp gauge after warm up used to rest at the half way mark but these days even after 25 kms running, the guage is short of half way mark. Fan comes on at regular intervals though.
5. Gear shift has become unpredictable - again problem after last TASS service

Advice for the above issues will be hugely appreciated along with a address of a decent mechanic in Bangalore as I dont want to deal with a bunch of serial scamsters, car damagers which is what Concorde Motors (Dairy cirlce) is full off.

Thanks

[AutoIndian]

Hi Raghu,
Welcome to the forum, I believe this is your first post. Indica (especially Turbo) is a beautiful car if taken care properly. Dont be so nervous, your car will continue to serve you, hopefully without much complaints. TBHPians will try to help you out as much as possible. Would like to address your concerns one-by-one:

1. Train Engine style idling. -->This is not uncommon for Indicas or any diesel engine for that matter (the current common rails being more refined). Does the idling settle down to a more audible note once the engine has warmed up? If it dosent then pl show it to the nearest Lucas TVS centre rather than a TASC. Lucas guys are more competent in matters related to FIP.

2. The Vibrations from idling seem to run through the car and very irritating -->This could be solved if the first point is addressed. Moreover pl get the engine mountings checked, if these have become loose the engine vibrations would get transferred to the chasis & the car as a whole.

3. The battery indicator is on initially at the start and dissapears after some running. The problem started immediately after one of the paid services and hence blame it on TASS guys rather anything being wrong with it. Acid spillage can be observed though.---> The battery indicator disappears only when the alternator starts charging the battery. This takes a couple of seconds when you set the car in motion, so yours is not an exception, but a normal behaviour. The acid spillage from the battery that you are referring to could be that the alternator is overcharging the battery at times, due to which the acid/ electrolyte boils & spills out from the battery cap. If some of your electricals too are behaving abnormally then it would be better to get your alternator also checked from Lucas.

4. The temp gauge after warm up used to rest at the half way mark but these days even after 25 kms running, the guage is short of half way mark. Fan comes on at regular intervals though.--> This is rather a good engine behaviour indicating that it is not getting overheated & the radiator fan is doing its job. You need to worry only if the temp needle crosses the half-way mark.

5. Gear shift has become unpredictable - again problem after last TASS service-->Greasing the gear lever should solve this problem

Address of a decent mechanic in Bangalore --> Hi-Tech Auto - Rajajinagar, Bangalore. Phone: 080-23125444 / 23125409 / 23128226. Many members in TIUG forum have tried this & are quite satisfied with the service levels there.

[Raghu Srinivasa]

That was of immense help, AutoIndian and yes even though I have been tracking this forum for quite sometime; this was my first post.

Lucas website suggested this place in Bommanahalli, Hosur road for FIP overhaul (the only such place in Bangalore it would seem). On calling these guys suggested 3.5K for the overhaul with parts extra. Feedback on this place will be appreciated.

Thanks
Raghu

[AutoIndian]

[quote=Raghu Srinivasa;2107952]That was of immense help, AutoIndian and yes even though I have been tracking this forum for quite sometime; this was my first post.

My pleasure. I am no expert, just try to share information.

Lucas website suggested this place in Bommanahalli, Hosur road for FIP overhaul (the only such place in Bangalore it would seem). On calling these guys suggested 3.5K for the overhaul with parts extra. Feedback on this place will be appreciated.

FIP overhaul should be the last option. On the TIUG forum one member had similar issues & one of the experts on the forum (Mr Achin Juneja) had suggested the following diagnostics. (Reproducing the extract below: Courtesy TIUG & Mr Achin):

Q: In older Diesel engines {My 2001 indica},if problem of low pick up or
jerk,Hunting etc comes,then we can go for fuel injection pump recalibration or overhaul?
A: The symptoms have to be considered carefully.
a)Hunting only at idling, but pickup is ok -- 'Stall speed' & FICD adjustment is done, FIP is not opened.
b)No Hunting, but jerks while accelerating in 2nd or 3rd gear --- can be due to a sticking Stop Solenoid valve. If this is ok, then FIP needs to be serviced, internal fuel pressure problem.
c)No hunting or jerks, but pickup is down --- rarely a FIP problem. Usually due to blocked cat. converter, clogged air filter, dirty injectors, blocked return valve and/or adulterated fuel (assuming clutch is ok).
d)If all symptoms are present, proceed as follows:
1)Check 'Stall Speed' & FICD settings.
2)Check cat, converter, air filter, return valve.
3)Get injectors cleaned.
4)Check Stop solenoid.
If all above are ok and/or clean, then get FIP serviced at Lucas.

Hope this helps

[Raghu Srinivasa]

I guess I will leave the FIP over haul for some other time.
My car is behaving rather well these days as if it somehow knows it’s being talked about .
The engine hunting has reduced by over 50% in terms of time and intensity. The only thing I am doing different these days is allowing the engine to warm up for 2-3 min instead of previous 1 min. Also I think Bangalore’s chillier mornings are making for a denser fuel-air mixture.

One additional issue is the wheel centering seems to be off-center towards the left despite a recent alignment and centering jobs.

Thanks
Raghu

[AutoIndian]

Good to know that your car is listening to you positively. To check if your wheel alignment is OK, try driving your car in a straight line on a plain, straight road at a steady speed. Then slowly lift off both your hands from the steering wheel. If the car continues in the straight line, your alignment is perfect. If it starts moving either to the left of right, then you need to realign your wheels (assuming both the front tyres have equally inflated)

[mgh]

Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth

The A/c does not work when the RPM meter is not working. Now do I need to get the thing checked with somebody like Lucas TVS or take it to the service center. There is no pattern when the issue comes up, some days it seem to work fine some times not.

sorry, did not see this earlier. my problem was the same.

the tachometer is faulty, and needs to be attended to. most probably it is an alternator-tacho combo. take it to TVS-Lucas and tell them tacho is faulty.

Tachos used in industry are hard to repair(except for minor faults) and are normally replaced. Don't know about the car tachos.

Mine was replaced under warranty.

[Raghu Srinivasa]

AutoIndian,
I got the alignment done twice two weeks back as I was not happy with the initial work done by KHT motors Whitefield service center. (God knows why I keep going back to them TASS).
But there are a couple of positives from the Steering Centering/ Alignment & Balancing. The steering effort has come down and Acelere's I use have stepped up their performance a little bit.
But the centering of wheel has shifted slightly to the left after 5-6 days. And the car does not drift to the side in a straight line which means alignment should be ok.

Also, I have started using System D to improve upon the smoothness of the engine and other aspects such as power, mileage etc. The difference has been immediate in a better & relatively vibe free throttle response, lesser sound and a smoother engine. Will keep the thread posted on any improvements in mileage.

[pypkmsrikanth]

Originally Posted by mgh

sorry, did not see this earlier. my problem was the same.

the tachometer is faulty, and needs to be attended to. most probably it is an alternator-tacho combo. take it to TVS-Lucas and tell them tacho is faulty.

Tachos used in industry are hard to repair(except for minor faults) and are normally replaced. Don't know about the car tachos.

Mine was replaced under warranty.

Have actually replaced the Alternator, though I did not spend anything for the alternator. Felt all was well when I took a small test drive yesterday. There was no repeat of the "Check Engine" Indicator on and Tachometer not working etc. Lets see in the days to come. Thanks for your suggestions.

[greenhorn]

EDIT: seems you're already using system D.
Add a bit extra at first, and reduce your dosage progressively

how are your suspension bits doing ? Have your ball joints been replaced? tie rods ? anti roll bars and bushes etc?
If you have a lot of potholes, have alignment checked frequently

[AutoIndian]

Hi Srikanth,
Good to know that your issue got resolved by replacing Alternator, usually the alternator or regulator is culprit in such cases. Could you pl share with us the cost of the Alternator. Did you look at the option of overhauling the alternator? I faced a similar issue way back in Dec 2007. Tacho was behaving abnormally, horn became very weak at time, 4 headlamps were fused in two days. The problem was traced to the alternator. Took the vehicle to Lucas TVS service centre. The mechanic there immediately started opening the alternator. Within half an hour the alternator was separated from the car. On putting the test rig, somehow it showed correct voltage. When he separated the stator from the rotor I observed the rectifier plate. The
mechanic then told that the fault could be with the voltage regulator. On asking if only the regulator can be replaced, I was told that once the alternator assembly is opened, oil seal, “O” ring & both the bearings having to be replaced. Without much of a
contention I agreed for the same. The complete job was quoted for INR 2,057.00. The detailed break-up is as follows:

26215686 - Regulator -1 nos 549.00
26211637 - Oil Seal -1 nos 214.00
26211664 - SRE Bearing -1 nos 400.00
26211688 - O ring Small -1 nos 114.00
Labour 151.00
Sub-total 1,428.00
Add M-VAT - 12.50% 178.50
Alternator Removing & Refitting charges 150.00
Alternator Servicing charges 300.00
Round-off 0.50
Total 2,057.00

After 2 hours the assembly was fitted back on the vehicle. I test drove the car & noticed that the problem has disappeared. Since then the problem has not recurred (touchwood).

[bonnetsup]

I'm facing a similar problem on my 04 petrol Indica. Randomly, the tacho and speedo stops working(the needles stop updating and do not reflect the true rpm or speed) and the engine seems to have lower power and feels awfully sluggish. Along with that, the headlights lose intensity and the speakers stop playing (the HU continues to play the track though). Everything comes back to normal randomly, ofcourse, all at the same time though.

There are times when just the speakers stops playing. This is rather interesting as they resume if I turn on the headlights and stop if I switch off the headlights (only during this period, not normally).

Got the car checked by my mechanic. He tested the altenator, replaced a part which costs Rs.600 and said the voltage readings off the battery were fine. He claims the problem is with the tacho and needs to be taken care of by Tata to avoid tampering with the odo. The worst part is that the engine loses power during this "cutoff" cycle.

Any leads will be appreciated.

[bonnetsup]

Forgot to add, there's absolutely no problem with audio playback when the engine is off and power is drawn from the battery. I'm guessing the only other culprit can be the alternator. Does this mean it has to be replaced?

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by bonnetsup

Forgot to add, there's absolutely no problem with audio playback when the engine is off and power is drawn from the battery. I'm guessing the only other culprit can be the alternator. Does this mean it has to be replaced?

You could probably be right. All the issues you mentioned are classic symptoms of alternator acting up. You said that your mechanic replaced a part for Rs 600/-. Which was this part? I would suggest you better show your car to nearest TVS Lucas Centre & get the voltage of the battery checked.

[bonnetsup]

@AutoIndian, thanks for the pointer. Dont' know what the part is called, so I'll try describing it. It was a fist sized cylindrical grey unit with two wires connected at either end. Replacing it din't quite solve the issue although the mech claimed it needed to be replaced anyway.