[jinojohnt]

Has anyone got the steering flange nut changed in Alto 800cc?

I hear a sound from the steering while driving over rough roads - but the stabilizer bar does not seem to be loose when I checked at the Alignment shop. The steering is also fine, as per the mechanic who checked the alignment.

The MASS swears (without even driving my car) that it is a steering flange nut issue. They claim that the flange nut is made of plastic, hence most Altos that use rough roads, have this issue?

Can somebody confirm whether it's safe to go on long drives if it is really a flange nut issue?

I googled for flange nut, but I am not aware how complex it is to be replaced. I also couldn't find this mentioned anywhere as a common issue for Alto. I am wary about opening the steering box unless really required - Dad's Maruti 800 once had a steering job done at Indus Motors Trivandrum, and had to be taken back to the dealer again because the wheels were not turning even after turning the steering about 20 degrees.

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

The "check engine light" or MIL (for Malfunction Indicator Light) as Maruti-Suzuki calls it, is indicating that the ECU has detected issues with one or more of the engine sensors. You'd need a Tech-2 (a GM diagnostic tool) for this, or you could "jump" a couple of terminals in the "monitor coupler" (in the fuse & relay box in the engine bay). You can get more information regarding this by reading from this post onwards...

Hi im_srini,
as so often you make my day!
Do I understand right that I just have to connect the diagnostic terminal with the ground terminal. Then keeping the connection alive and sitting on my driver seat - the mil should telling me something by flashing. Then I know the reason why the lamp had turned on. After that I want to clear the error out of the memory. For that I have to pull the wire out of the ground terminal (negative) by keeping the wire in the diagnostic terminal for 30secs????? This will be noticed by the system?

Originally Posted by im_srini

The Alto uses 2 DDLI coils for ignition, the F10D engine has wasted spark ignition - basically the first DDLI coil provides spark for the first & fourth cylinders, the second DDLI coil provides spark for the second & third cylinders. Here's a pic...
I think the same DDLI coils are used for the F10D Alto & Wagon-R, the G13B Swift, & the G16B Baleno. Will post the part numbers tonight...

I will also take a picture but it´s so cold and wet here in Germany at the moment. I hope the weather will be better tomorrow.

Meanwhile just another question.... Do you know how long the replacement of the front window will take? Only working time not standing and drying.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Do I understand right that I just have to connect the diagnostic terminal with the ground terminal. Then keeping the connection alive and sitting on my driver seat - the mil should telling me something by flashing. Then I know the reason why the lamp had turned on.

Hi DeOetelaar, yes, you're right ! Locate the fuse & relay box in the engine bay - on the Right-Hand-Drive Altos here, it's mounted on the engine firewall on the passenger side. With the ignition off, use a short piece of wire (2" should do) & short the diagnostic terminal to the ground terminal in the monitor coupler itself. If the ignition is turned on now, the MIL should flash the error code. Usually its a sensor that's not been connected properly, you could try cleaning the terminals & connecting again. You can remove the wire once the offending sensor has been identified.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

After that I want to clear the error out of the memory. For that I have to pull the wire out of the ground terminal (negative) by keeping the wire in the diagnostic terminal for 30secs ? This will be noticed by the system ?

To clear out any stored error codes in the ECU, disconnect the negative terminal of the battery for more than 30 seconds (if the ambient temperature is higher than 0 deg C according to the service manual). You could keep the battery's negative terminal disconnected for a longer duration if its below freezing out there now.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Do you know how long the replacement of the front window will take? Only working time not standing and drying.

The windscreen in the Alto is not glued on, even otherwise the entire procedure shouldn't take more than an hour or so. With respect to the DDLI coil, here's a pic of the stock DDLI coil (from Denso) & the box of a replacement coil (from Lucas-TVS). The box has the Lucas-TVS part number on it.



The related parts from the Parts-Catalog.



I guess you need part number 33740M79F00, i.e. the ignition cord for the number 2 cylinder.

[JustCause]

My Alto suffered an unfortunate impact when parked. A lady with her kid on board reversed straight into my Alto. The impact was mild as the distance was not much but, the front bumper & the compressor heat shroud has been damaged. With much effort, I brought the heat shroud into place & screwed back the nut that held it in place. The problem is that the heat shroud nut was intact when it came off the bumper i.e. the hole for the nut in the bumper has torn due to the impact & it can no longer hold the nut in place. Something like this.


Secondly, the small linkages in the front lower grille have broken at 2-3 places. Is it advisable to fix it using araldite?


While fixing the above, I noticed that the left headlight had come loose & was wobbling. On further inspection, I found out that both of the two screw clips had broken. I applied araldite yesterday evening on the clip that was accessible(there is another one below, but can't be accessed easily). Now, the left headlight is almost as stable as the right one but, the beam is a bit off mark. I will check later in the evening.


The left bumper edge also had dislodged on impact in the initial months of ownership due to another 'mistake' monger (It was parked then too). I had fixed that too with Araldite.

Should I replace the down-but-not-out bumper or just apply some more Araldite?

[bama]

Originally Posted by JustCause

My Alto suffered an unfortunate impact when parked. A lady with her kid on board reversed straight into my Alto. The impact was mild as the distance was not much but, the front bumper & the compressor heat shroud has been damaged. With much effort, I brought the heat shroud into place & screwed back the nut that held it in place. The problem is that the heat shroud nut was intact when it came off the bumper i.e. the hole for the nut in the bumper has torn due to the impact & it can no longer hold the nut in place. Something like this.

Hey
This can be repaired easily. I had holes drilled on my Zen bumper to attach fog lights and when i took them off , the mechanic "filled" up the drill holes. They melt the plastic and fill them up.
Got this done in Noida sec 16. However, i am not sure if the bold/ nut will hold through the patched up bumper But i guess its worth a try as this will cost a lot less when compared to replacing the entire bumper

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi DeOetelaar, yes, you're right ! Locate the fuse & relay box in the engine bay - on the Right-Hand-Drive Altos here, it's mounted on the engine firewall on the passenger side. With the ignition off, use a short piece of wire (2" should do) & short the diagnostic terminal to the ground terminal in the monitor coupler itself. If the ignition is turned on now, the MIL should flash the error code. Usually its a sensor that's not been connected properly, you could try cleaning the terminals & connecting again. You can remove the wire once the offending sensor has been identified.
To clear out any stored error codes in the ECU, disconnect the negative terminal of the battery for more than 30 seconds (if the ambient temperature is higher than 0 deg C according to the service manual). You could keep the battery's negative terminal disconnected for a longer duration if its below freezing out there now.

Hi im_srini,
The light is off now. I did a "hard reset" by plugging off the battery for a feeling minute. Well it´s a funny story. I wanted to connect the ports by using a multimeter which should also work. hahaha.... well in my Alto the diagnostic terminal isn´t connected!!!! Seems that Suzuki here doesn´t work with it or has an alternative solution. I have attached a pic where you can see compared to yours that there are no contacts inside. After that I did the hard reset as mentioned . I wait about a minute or two because here are about 0 degrees C. It worked. I drove a few kilometres and the lamp is still off.

Originally Posted by im_srini

The windscreen in the Alto is not glued on, even otherwise the entire procedure shouldn't take more than an hour or so. With respect to the DDLI coil, here's a pic of the stock DDLI coil (from Denso) & the box of a replacement coil (from Lucas-TVS). The box has the Lucas-TVS part number on it.
I guess you need part number 33740M79F00, i.e. the ignition cord for the number 2 cylinder.

Good to know about the windscreen. Next Tuesday I get a new one.
You astonish me with every post with all the pics of the different parts and your knowledge. Well I attached a pic of the solution which also works. I think this is the part number you mentioned above and it´s just 1 part what I need? Well whatever i searched for it leads me always to the part on the pic in a former posting:

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Has anyone got the steering flange nut changed in Alto 800cc ? I hear a sound from the steering while driving over rough roads - but the stabilizer bar does not seem to be loose when I checked at the Alignment shop. The steering is also fine, as per the mechanic who checked the alignment.

What kind of sound is it ? Could you check with your M.A.S.S regarding this "steering flange nut" ? I see no part named "steering flange nut" in the Alto parts catalog. Is it a part in the steering column or the steering rack ?

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

The MASS swears (without even driving my car) that it is a steering flange nut issue. They claim that the flange nut is made of plastic, hence most Altos that use rough roads, have this issue ? Can somebody confirm whether it's safe to go on long drives if it is really a flange nut issue ?

In the service manual, the only mention of vulnerable plastic parts is that of 2 plastic shearing pins in the steering column. The service manual mentions that the steering column shouldn't be removed by hammering the wheel (like this ?) since these plastic pins could break. I'm not sure if your M.A.S.S is referring to these pins. So what is your M.A.S.S. recommending to get this issue fixed ?

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Hi im_srini, the light is off now. I did a "hard reset" by plugging off the battery for a feeling minute. After that I did the hard reset as mentioned. I wait about a minute or two because here are about 0 degrees C. It worked. I drove a few kilometers and the lamp is still off.

Really glad that you're Alto is finally back on its feet !

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

In my Alto the diagnostic terminal isn´t connected !!! Seems that Suzuki here doesn´t work with it or has an alternative solution. I have attached a pic where you can see compared to yours that there are no contacts inside.

Really surprised that the diagnostic terminal isn't connected in the Altos sold there. Well, the diagnostic terminal is actually the alternative, the recommended way is to use a Tech-2 (or Suzuki Diagnostic Kit), which is an expensive piece of kit here. Probably, Suzuki-Europe's thought process is that all workshops out there have Tech-2s & stuff.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Good to know about the windscreen. Next Tuesday I get a new one.

Coincidentally, even I need a new windshield for my 10-year old Alto as the current one is scratched beyond belief !

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Well I attached a pic of the solution which also works. I think this is the part number you mentioned above and it´s just 1 part what I need ? Well whatever I searched for it leads me always to the part on the pic in a former posting

Your solution should work fine, only issue being the open spark plug tube, the stock high tension lead has a boot that covers the end of the tube on the valve cover. Yes, the high tension leads for the 2nd & 4th cylinders are available as separate parts down here. The NGK high tension lead in the image you've posted looks very similar to the stock one though...

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by im_srini

I see no part named "steering flange nut" in the Alto parts catalog. Is it a part in the steering column or the steering rack ?

Thanks im_srini.
I am not very sure, but when I googled, I saw the following pic from another car website: Steering box. Fits: Volvo | VolvoPartsWebstore.com (Pic from this link is attached at the bottom of this post.)

Part7 - Flange screw
Part8 - Flange nut
Part10 - Plastic nut

Though MASS says it's a Flange Nut issue, I am guessing the issue could be with any of the above parts. I hear a 'tak tak' sound from the steering, while going over rough roads.

Originally Posted by im_srini

In the service manual, the only mention of vulnerable plastic parts is that of 2 plastic shearing pins in the steering column.

You mean Part10 listed above?

Originally Posted by im_srini

So what is your M.A.S.S. recommending to get this issue fixed ?

MASS is recommending replacement of Flange Nuts, but I would like to do more research before trusting my car with them (Previous experiences with other cars at MASS )

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Really glad that you're Alto is finally back on its feet !

Well.... I had rejoiced too soon.... today morning starting it at -8 degrees C. The lamp turned on again. I will try the same procedure again this evening.

Really surprised that the diagnostic terminal isn't connected in the Altos sold there. Well, the diagnostic terminal is actually the alternative, the recommended way is to use a Tech-2 (or Suzuki Diagnostic Kit), which is an expensive piece of kit here. Probably, Suzuki-Europe's thought process is that all workshops out there have Tech-2s & stuff.

Yes, I am very interested what exactly the problem now is...... so this would be helpful but it´s here also very expensive. Price is an half Alto.

Coincidentally, even I need a new windshield for my 10-year old Alto as the current one is scratched beyond belief !

I would not care about scratches. Mine has chipped by a stone and it´s full in my sightarea.

Your solution should work fine, only issue being the open spark plug tube, the stock high tension lead has a boot that covers the end of the tube on the valve cover. Yes, the high tension leads for the 2nd & 4th cylinders are available as separate parts down here. The NGK high tension lead in the image you've posted looks very similar to the stock one though...

This is not a solution at all of course. It seems that this part also fits in many other Suzuki models so there is a good chance for me to get it in a shop.

[ridinthru']

My Alto has done 87000 kms, is Jan 2007 make, the clutch seems to be showing signs of age, the pick missing and it struggles to move, got it checked at MASS, they've suggested the following -
- Clutch set to be changed which includes clutch plates, pressure plates, clutch bearing and surprisingly the fly wheel too..! am confused on the fly wheel part.. help required on this please.!

cheers !

RD

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Do you know how long the replacement of the front window will take ? Only working time not standing and drying.

Originally Posted by im_srini

The windscreen in the Alto is not glued on, even otherwise the entire procedure shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

Hi DeOetelaar, I was incorrect regarding the Alto windshield - the windshield of the Alto is indeed glued on. Really sorry, I should've checked before posting Here's what the service manual says regarding the windshield adhesive (short answer is that setting time allowed should be according to the adhesive manufacturer's recommendations).





I've had to change the windshield of my Alto twice before, both times it took about an hour or so.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Price is an half Alto.

Here, the price of the Tech 2 kit (or Suzuki Diagnostic Kit) is a little more than Rs.400,000 ! That's quite a bit more than the on-road price of the Alto itself. Of course the Tech 2 kit is not limited to the Alto only, it can be used to interface & diagnose all the cars in the Maruti-Suzuki lineup. Due to its high price, only the larger Maruti-Suzuki service centers here have it

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Though MASS says it's a Flange Nut issue, I am guessing the issue could be with any of the above parts. I hear a 'tak tak' sound from the steering, while going over rough roads. MASS is recommending replacement of Flange Nuts.

Hi John, a flange nut usually refers to a type of nut - the type that look like a nut & washer combo. Going through the service manual I could not find any mention of plastic nuts in the steering system. In any case here are the steering system pics from the parts catalog & the service manual.







I too had a similar issue in my Alto, but it was more of a "feel" than a "sound" - felt like there was something "loose" behind the dash or within the steering column. The issue would manifest whenever the steering was turned completely & the car was driven up or down a ramp. The "sound" was noticeable only over bad roads, would gradually reduce in intensity & completely disappear within 20 to 25 Kms of driving. Had the car up on lifts several times but found nothing mechanically loose with the suspension or steering components. My M.A.S.S recommended a change of the steering rack (~2.4K), but the issue vanished completely before I could change the rack (the issue haunted me for ~7K Kms before it vanished).

Here's the excerpt from the service manual that warns about the plastic pins in the steering column. Other than this I could not find any mention of any serviceable plastic parts in the steering system.

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi DeOetelaar, I was incorrect regarding the Alto windshield - the windshield of the Alto is indeed glued on. Really sorry, I should've checked before posting Here's what the service manual says regarding the windshield adhesive (short answer is that setting time allowed should be according to the adhesive manufacturer's recommendations).

I've had to change the windshield of my Alto twice before, both times it took about an hour or so.

hi im_srini,

No Problem. I got my new frontshield yesterday. It was expensive but ít´s a good feeling now. It was not done by myself.... at -8 degrees C it would be a real horror I think.

Here, the price of the Tech 2 kit (or Suzuki Diagnostic Kit) is a little more than Rs.400,000 ! That's quite a bit more than the on-road price of the Alto itself. Of course the Tech 2 kit is not limited to the Alto only, it can be used to interface & diagnose all the cars in the Maruti-Suzuki lineup. Due to its high price, only the larger Maruti-Suzuki service centers here have it

Well I did some research and in Europe an OBD Kit would also be useful. It´s not good as this Tech2 but it´s about USD 50,00 and compared to Tech2 it´s cheap.

I noticed that the light just flashes on if I do a cold start. I read that the oxygen sensor will preheat the cold emissions. This could be the problem. The preheating does not work. The Altos have this problem quite often I noticed. If I drive the car warm after the reset, will turn off the engine and turn on again the light would be still off. I don´t know if the Sensor is out of order or just the cable for the power for preheating is broken. Do you know something about this matter?
Where is this sensor placed? I have heard that there are 2 sensors. One before the converter and one after.

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Well I did some research and in Europe an OBD Kit would also be useful. It´s not good as this Tech2 but it´s about USD 50,00 and compared to Tech2 it´s cheap.

Hi DeOetelaar, I would advise caution before going for an OBD kit (like an ELM-327 based OBD kit) for older Maruti-Suzuki cars like the Alto. These cars use a version of an old GM protocol called ALDL, hence using a generic ELM-327 based OBD scanner does not work in these cars. Would suggest you try a scanner to see if it works before you buy it.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

I noticed that the light just flashes on if I do a cold start. I read that the oxygen sensor will preheat the cold emissions. The Altos have this problem quite often I noticed. If I drive the car warm after the reset, will turn off the engine and turn on again the light would be still off. I don´t know if the Sensor is out of order or just the cable for the power for preheating is broken. Do you know something about this matter ?

I understand from the service manual that the ECU keeps track of stored error codes between driving cycles (I suppose a driving cycle is ignition-on, engine start, driving around, & ignition-off) & flashes the MIL depending on whether the issue (error code) has been sensed in previous driving cycles or not. For example if a stored error code occurs for a driving cycle, but does not for the next 40 driving cycles, the ECU automatically deletes the error code (& such). Will post the relevant sections from the service manual tomorrow.

Originally Posted by DeOetelaar

Where is this sensor placed ? I have heard that there are 2 sensors. One before the converter and one after.

The Alto available here has just a single O2 sensor. You can find the O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold, usually pretty close to the cyclinder head. From the picture you'd posted previously, the part circled in RED, where there is a hole in the exhaust manifold's heat shield, is most likely where you'll find the O2 sensor in your car.



To know whether its a heated O2 sensor or not please count the number of wires in the O2 sensor - if it has just 1 or 2 wires, its most probably not a heated O2 sensor (my Alto has just a single wire). From the service manual too, it appears that the Alto O2 sensor is a single wire sensor. To be absolutely sure though, follow the wire from the O2 sensor to the connector (where it connects to the engine wiring harness), the connector will tell you the number of wires in the O2 sensor. The Swift available here has a heated O2 sensor which has 4 wires - 1 signal wire, 1 ground wire, 2 wires for the sensor's heating element.

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi DeOetelaar, I would advise caution before going for an OBD kit (like an ELM-327 based OBD kit) for older Maruti-Suzuki cars like the Alto. These cars use a version of an old GM protocol called ALDL, hence using a generic ELM-327 based OBD scanner does not work in these cars. Would suggest you try a scanner to see if it works before you buy it.

Hi im_srini,
Thanks for the advice. Today I was at the general check here. I don´t if this is usual in India also. They check the roadworthy of all cars and are very efficient. Finally they were pleasantly surprised because my indian car was in a good condition. They usually use OBD if the car has it to check the exhaust but I have this trouble with the MIL so they did it on another way. Now I know that my Alto is OBD able. This would maybe explain why my Alto hasn´t any connected diagnostic terminal because every car sold here from 2006 must be checked by OBD as I understand. I had luck because mine is from 2004.

Originally Posted by im_srini

I understand from the service manual that the ECU keeps track of stored error codes between driving cycles (I suppose a driving cycle is ignition-on, engine start, driving around, & ignition-off) & flashes the MIL depending on whether the issue (error code) has been sensed in previous driving cycles or not. For example if a stored error code occurs for a driving cycle, but does not for the next 40 driving cycles, the ECU automatically deletes the error code (& such). Will post the relevant sections from the service manual tomorrow.

Ok, if will find the error I have to drive 40 times to see if the problem has been solved. The solution you explained disconnecting the battery is more suitable for me.

Originally Posted by im_srini

The Alto available here has just a single O2 sensor. You can find the O2 sensor in the exhaust manifold, usually pretty close to the cyclinder head. From the picture you'd posted previously, the part circled in RED, where there is a hole in the exhaust manifold's heat shield, is most likely where you'll find the O2 sensor in your car.
To know whether its a heated O2 sensor or not please count the number of wires in the O2 sensor - if it has just 1 or 2 wires, its most probably not a heated O2 sensor (my Alto has just a single wire). From the service manual too, it appears that the Alto O2 sensor is a single wire sensor. To be absolutely sure though, follow the wire from the O2 sensor to the connector (where it connects to the engine wiring harness), the connector will tell you the number of wires in the O2 sensor. The Swift available here has a heated O2 sensor which has 4 wires - 1 signal wire, 1 ground wire, 2 wires for the sensor's heating element.

Yesterday evening I visit the guy who has repaired the gasket. Meanwhile he has also repaired the broken ignition cable by pulling a new cable inside the old broken one. I was very surprised. This matter has been solved now.
He also showed me the place of the o2 sensor (same as you marked) with the 4 cables as supposed. But he was not sure if the cause for the error is the o2 sensor. (btw. I have 2 sensors of them as written before) Seems that it´s in different Suzuki models like Baleno.. maybe also Swift. Well I have to sleep a night to think what to do now.... It´s no problem to get a new sensor (which often should not work perfectly I noticed) but it´s a problem to get a original Suzuki/Maruti one..

[DeOetelaar]

Originally Posted by im_srini

Hi DeOetelaar, I would advise caution before going for an OBD kit (like an ELM-327 based OBD kit) for older Maruti-Suzuki cars like the Alto. These cars use a version of an old GM protocol called ALDL, hence using a generic ELM-327 based OBD scanner does not work in these cars. Would suggest you try a scanner to see if it works before you buy it.

Hi!

Just a small update. Meanwhile I got the OBD scanner and it´s works really fine. It gave me the following:

Oxygen O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1, Sensor 1)

As assumed before the first sensor has a malfunction. Maybe the heating element just gets no power. But if power is OK I have to check where I get a new genuine sensor. The offers here are just replicas mostly which often do not work properly. I don´t know if it´s true.