[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by sidby

They offered me 70% off on Injectors and 100% of EGR. I rejected it and said i wont pay a penny. If i do pay, ill pay the whole thing and then take you to court.

Stand to your point and see to that they give 100% off on both. Only thing I would suggest is, the 4th injector would also give away some day or the other. Try to see if they could replace all four. Otherwise another visit sometime later on. Since VW mostly replaces what goes wrong.

Originally Posted by sidby

1. What about a replacement vehicle? They have had my car for 1 week, and i genuinely need a vehicle, having also sold one of my other vehicles today.
They plan to keep it for another few days so arent they supposed to give me another car?

I'm not technically aware of after how long they provide a replacement car. Since your car has been with them for 1 week, push them to provide a replacement vehicle till the work is finished or sorted out.

Originally Posted by sidby

2. Some people had issues with the advisory being a skoda advisory? Any recommendations on how to tackle that technicality?

The attached advisory is for VW. So there shouldn't be any issue.

Originally Posted by sidby

3. Lastly, I must ask. Do you feel the Vento Tdi, after all this repair/replacement work, will be worth keeping? Some might feel itll drive much better and hence yes, but however, some also feel that since this went wrong, its only a matter of time before something else comes along. And since my extended warranty elapsed in Nov 2014, would i be better off selling it after the repairs are done?

According to my heart, after replacement of 4 injector there has been no trouble with the car. Also there is no other car in the segment which can match Vento in terms of driving pleasure and power. Finding a replacement would be difficult, it either has to be another Vento or a Jetta.

According to my head, keep replacing the car every 4 years so that you are covered under warranty. But that's an expensive proposition.

Since your car has been out of warranty, VW takes time to get things done. If it was under warranty, you would have had your car next day provided they had injectors in stock.

Have your car repaired and I'm sure it wont give any further troubles.

Have a great day!

[premc44]

Originally Posted by sidby

Hi El Lobo,

They offered me 70% off on Injectors and 100% of EGR. I rejected it and said i wont pay a penny. If i do pay, ill pay the whole thing and then take you to court.

Seems to have worked. Awaiting final outcome. I just had a few more queries about this:

You must send a strongly worded mail to customercare of VW India. I had my four injectors replaced under extended warranty and during the process , the fuel return hose was damaged and I was charged Rs.8292 for the same. I sent a complaint to VW, which you can read on Page 505 of the VW Vento- test drive and review thread. The matter was taken very seriously and referred to the dealer. I stuck to my point and got my money back. During the many interaction with the dealership, I got to know one thing. VW takes all customer complaints seriously and it is the duty of the dealer to get the complaint resolved. A complaint that remains "open" even after 48 hours is not looked up on nicely. Send a copy of the VW service advisory on injectors with your mail, just to prove that we are educated on this issue and pose a question, If the EGR valves have to be replaced in four years, is that what is being referred to as "German Engineering". Hit them hard where it hurts most, that is what I think I did with my mail. All the best
I must add, once the injectors are replaced, you must get the minimum quantity adaptation for the injectors done, essentially a soft ware patch. Once this was done, the car has become so smooth and gives much better FE , even in city driving.

[sidby]

Hi El Lobo,

I must begin with thanking you for such prompt and detailed replies. I did indeed do as you recommended and yesterday afternoon after some thinly veiled threats, they agreed to replace everything 100% Free of Cost.

I also harped on about a repalcement vehicle, which they have given me this morning. Another 2011 vento. They plan to keep my car for a few days since the parts arent in stock..

So all is well on that front. Will go and personally oversee the repair work though.

I agree with your views on the vento. I myself was quite conflicted.

But yes, keeping the car for atleast another 5-6 months seems like the best bet. It is hard to replace, as i personally consider it the leader in its segment.

Also i hear the resale for VW, is a little lower, so its not like I can hope to get much for it.

Will post as soon as the repairs are done and I put the car through its paces. Hopefully itll drive better and smooother, and thus push any doubts out of my head.

Many thanks once again.

Wishing you a good day!

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Stand to your point and see to that they give 100% off on both. Only thing I would suggest is, the 4th injector would also give away some day or the other. Try to see if they could replace all four. Otherwise another visit sometime later on. Since VW mostly replaces what goes wrong.


I'm not technically aware of after how long they provide a replacement car. Since your car has been with them for 1 week, push them to provide a replacement vehicle till the work is finished or sorted out.


The attached advisory is for VW. So there shouldn't be any issue.


According to my heart, after replacement of 4 injector there has been no trouble with the car. Also there is no other car in the segment which can match Vento in terms of driving pleasure and power. Finding a replacement would be difficult, it either has to be another Vento or a Jetta.

According to my head, keep replacing the car every 4 years so that you are covered under warranty. But that's an expensive proposition.

Since your car has been out of warranty, VW takes time to get things done. If it was under warranty, you would have had your car next day provided they had injectors in stock.

Have your car repaired and I'm sure it wont give any further troubles.

Have a great day!

Hi Mr. Prem,

Thank you for your informative reply. I did threaten the dealership and manage to get 100% Free of Cost by showing the advisory and all.

Lets hope the car drives well now.

Minimum adaptation? Hmm. Interesting. I will do as u recommended and ask for it. Thanks for the info. Didnt know about that.

I also agree with you on your point about German Engineering. I, too, used that point very forcefully. Why would anyone buy a 10 L Rupee, German car which is a segment leader, only to have maintenance bills of 2l in a few years. Non accidental I might add. As you can imagine, they had no response whatsoever to that other than "adulterated fuel"

Oh well. I hope that post repair, my faith in VW is repaired. The vento is genuinely a pleasure to drive!

Thank you and Wishing you a good day

Originally Posted by premc44

You must send a strongly worded mail to customercare of VW India. I had my four injectors replaced under extended warranty and during the process , the fuel return hose was damaged and I was charged Rs.8292 for the same. I sent a complaint to VW, which you can read on Page 505 of the VW Vento- test drive and review thread. The matter was taken very seriously and referred to the dealer. I stuck to my point and got my money back. During the many interaction with the dealership, I got to know one thing. VW takes all customer complaints seriously and it is the duty of the dealer to get the complaint resolved. A complaint that remains "open" even after 48 hours is not looked up on nicely. Send a copy of the VW service advisory on injectors with your mail, just to prove that we are educated on this issue and pose a question, If the EGR valves have to be replaced in four years, is that what is being referred to as "German Engineering". Hit them hard where it hurts most, that is what I think I did with my mail. All the best
I must add, once the injectors are replaced, you must get the minimum quantity adaptation for the injectors done, essentially a soft ware patch. Once this was done, the car has become so smooth and gives much better FE , even in city driving.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by sidby

I must begin with thanking you for such prompt and detailed replies. I did indeed do as you recommended and yesterday afternoon after some thinly veiled threats, they agreed to replace everything 100% Free of Cost.

I also harped on about a repalcement vehicle, which they have given me this morning. Another 2011 vento. They plan to keep my car for a few days since the parts arent in stock..

Its a pleasure to know I could be of help to a fellow bhpian. VW is taking great strides in making their customer experience better with very passing day. Problem is at dealer level who do not cooperate initially, but once you intimate VW Customer Care about your issues they do their best in resolving it.

Originally Posted by sidby

But yes, keeping the car for atleast another 5-6 months seems like the best bet. It is hard to replace, as i personally consider it the leader in its segment.

Also i hear the resale for VW, is a little lower, so its not like I can hope to get much for it.

Will post as soon as the repairs are done and I put the car through its paces. Hopefully itll drive better and smooother, and thus push any doubts out of my head.

Once the car is back after repairs it would drive much smoother and I believe you will fall in love all over again with Vento. Retain it for another year as newer MQB based Vento/Jetta would be releasing in 2016 just in case you wish to change over.

After the repair go for a long drive some 200 Kms. That's what I did.

Originally Posted by sidby

Minimum adaptation? Hmm. Interesting. I will do as u recommended and ask for it.

After replacing injectors VW updates the ECU and does "Minimum Quantity Injector" adaptation. During the update engine keeps revving to 2700 rpm again & again for a brief period to adjust firing of injectors. Its almost like artificial intelligence has taken over the car.

Just see to that they or Verify that VW
1. Updates ECU software to latest one.
2. Does Minimum quantity injector adaptation

Lastly once car is all repaired it should sound like a brand new 1.6 TDi. It my case VW Pune B.U.Bhandari didn't fit injector properly which made my Vento sound like a tractor. VW Pune gave excuse that it takes some 1000 kms for injector to settle in which not the case. If properly fitted car would be purring like a cat. Had to get injectors refitted at VW Navi Mumbai AutoBahn Motors.

[premc44]

[quote=sidby
Hi Mr. Prem,

Thank you for your informative reply. I did threaten the dealership and manage to get 100% Free of Cost by showing the advisory and all.

Lets hope the car drives well now.

Minimum adaptation? Hmm. Interesting. I will do as u recommended and ask for it. Thanks for the info. Didnt know about that.

I also agree with you on your point about German Engineering. I, too, used that point very forcefully. Why would anyone buy a 10 L Rupee, German car which is a segment leader, only to have maintenance bills of 2l in a few years. Non accidental I might add. As you can imagine, they had no response whatsoever to that other than "adulterated fuel"

Oh well. I hope that post repair, my faith in VW is repaired. The vento is genuinely a pleasure to drive!

Thank you and Wishing you a good day[/QUOTE]

Nice to know that you are going to get the work done free. Minimum quantity adaptation has to be done after replacing injectors. It was not done for my car and even with the new injectors, the car was noisy and the drive was not at all smooth. I thought there was something else wrong and so within a week, took the car back. A young technician immediately diagnosed the problem and did the minimum quantity adaptation for the injectors and that transformed my car totally. Next day, I had a fairly long drive and with full load got 19.5 Km/L and the engine now has a purring note and the car is a pleasure to drive. Insist on getting this done.
As I said in my earlier post, VW is slowly learning and seems to have realised why their products are not getting their due market share. More then VW, the problem are the dealers and I feel they are being straightened now.
Wishing you many miles of happy Ventoing.

[sidby]

Hi El Lobo and Mr. Prem,

I will definitely insist on the software upgrade and the minimum adaptation patch. But i was wondering if in addition to better sound and fuel efficiency, will the performance also be affected?

I bought my vento pre owned. I have always been gentle with it and never treated it badly. Mine is a nov 2010.

A close friend bought his in Jan 2013. And even though his car has done 40000 km and mine is at 50000 km, his drives much much better than mine, inspite of the fact that he really doesnt take very good care of it!!

After hearing about the fuel injector issue, I have chalked up the difference in performance to that. Any comments on the same?

One will only know when the car comes back though. Alas thats still a good few days away! Im getting impatient

Thank you for your valuable inputs

Wishing you a good day

Originally Posted by premc44

Minimum quantity adaptation has to be done after replacing injectors. It was not done for my car and even with the new injectors, the car was noisy and the drive was not at all smooth. I thought there was something else wrong and so within a week, took the car back. A young technician immediately diagnosed the problem and did the minimum quantity adaptation for the injectors and that transformed my car totally. Next day, I had a fairly long drive and with full load got 19.5 Km/L and the engine now has a purring note and the car is a pleasure to drive. Insist on getting this done.
)

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

After replacing injectors VW updates the ECU and does "Minimum Quantity Injector" adaptation. During the update engine keeps revving to 2700 rpm again & again for a brief period to adjust firing of injectors. Its almost like artificial intelligence has taken over the car.

Just see to that they or Verify that VW
1. Updates ECU software to latest one.
2. Does Minimum quantity injector adaptation

Lastly once car is all repaired it should sound like a brand new 1.6 TDi. It my case VW Pune B.U.Bhandari didn't fit injector properly which made my Vento sound like a tractor. VW Pune gave excuse that it takes some 1000 kms for injector to settle in which not the case. If properly fitted car would be purring like a cat. Had to get injectors refitted at VW Navi Mumbai AutoBahn Motors.

[premc44]

Originally Posted by sidby

Hi El Lobo and Mr. Prem,

I will definitely insist on the software upgrade and the minimum adaptation patch. But i was wondering if in addition to better sound and fuel efficiency, will the performance also be affected?

I bought my vento pre owned. I have always been gentle with it and never treated it badly. Mine is a nov 2010.

A close friend bought his in Jan 2013. And even though his car has done 40000 km and mine is at 50000 km, his drives much much better than mine, inspite of the fact that he really doesnt take very good care of it!!

After hearing about the fuel injector issue, I have chalked up the difference in performance to that. Any comments on the same?

One will only know when the car comes back though. Alas thats still a good few days away! Im getting impatient

Thank you for your valuable inputs

Wishing you a good day

In addition to better sounding engine and better fuel efficiency, you will find that the original performance will be restored. Certainly with faulty injectors, you would have noticed a drop in performance and if you have, then you will definitely feel the change.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by sidby

I will definitely insist on the software upgrade and the minimum adaptation patch. But i was wondering if in addition to better sound and fuel efficiency, will the performance also be affected?

No, the performance wont be affected. Just that there would less NVH and the engine would become smoother. After replacement of injectors, you would definitely feel improvement in performance and efficiency.

My Vento TDi 4th Service is due on 30 Mar 2015, let see how it goes. Will update the thread accordingly.

[sidby]

Hi EL lobo,

Was hoping to get the vento back today. Obviously I didnt. The SA called me in the evening and casually mentioned something about needing to change a hose pipe and that it will cost around 4200 etc etc. I remembered reading something about it vaguely on tbhp and told him so and told him to do the work and that as far as I am concerned, VW should bear the cost.

But as you can guess,its become a bit of a battle.

Just to inform you again, my car is out of warranty. It is a nov 2010 model.

So i just wanted your opinion on whether I have a case for pushing for FOC hose replacement, or whether I should pay up. I am not interested in being unfair, but after going through tbhp I'm a little confused as to whether it is a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tear.

I would appreciate one of your quick and detailed replies as I am really hoping to go pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks and have a good day

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

No, the performance wont be affected. Just that there would less NVH and the engine would become smoother. After replacement of injectors, you would definitely feel improvement in performance and efficiency.

My Vento TDi 4th Service is due on 30 Mar 2015, let see how it goes. Will update the thread accordingly.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by sidby

I'm a little confused as to whether it is a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tear.

Manufacturing defect or wear and tear, I do not think we are eligible for free of cost replacement once outside warranty, unless you have pointed out the issue in the warranty period.

[premc44]

Originally Posted by sidby

Hi EL lobo,

Was hoping to get the vento back today. Obviously I didnt. The SA called me in the evening and casually mentioned something about needing to change a hose pipe and that it will cost around 4200 etc etc. I remembered reading something about it vaguely on tbhp and told him so and told him to do the work and that as far as I am concerned, VW should bear the cost.

But as you can guess,its become a bit of a battle.

Just to inform you again, my car is out of warranty. It is a nov 2010 model.

So i just wanted your opinion on whether I have a case for pushing for FOC hose replacement, or whether I should pay up. I am not interested in being unfair, but after going through tbhp I'm a little confused as to whether it is a manufacturing defect or simple wear and tear.

I would appreciate one of your quick and detailed replies as I am really hoping to go pick it up tomorrow.

Thanks and have a good day

While changing injectors they have to remove the fuel return hose, which has four channels going to the injectors. Mine was damaged while they did the job, I was made to pay Rs 8292/ , which I did. Took it up with VW and now I got the whole amount refunded. I could prove that the plastic nozzle at the end became broken due to the wrong way it was removed. See the copy of the mail I sent to VW and the photos of the hose that I attached on page 505 0f VW Vento- test drive and review thread.
I presume the hose you are referring to is the fuel return hose, which is very intimately connected to the injectors.

[sidby]

Hi Dr. Prem,

Thank you for your reply. I did indeed read your previous post, email and saw the pictures as well. I had gotten confused and thought it was another user who had faced that issue.

Thank you for shedding light on the issue. Now in my position I dont know what the reason behind the damage to the pipe was. The dealer claims it was due to wear and tear and the car is old etc and not under warranty blah blah blah.

It could very well have been damaged by their carelessness but at the moment I am not sure if I have a leg to stand on. Also, since i got the EGR and Fuel injecetors replaced FOC, I am already facing resentment from them.

The car has been with them for a long time and I just want to bring it home. I have to go in an hour's time to the workshop. Will use your email and posts, but if it doesnt yield any results, I'm afraid Ill have to concede this point to the dealers and just pay up. Lol.

So let's see how it goes. Will update on what happens finally.

thanks again

have a good day

Originally Posted by premc44

While changing injectors they have to remove the fuel return hose, which has four channels going to the injectors. Mine was damaged while they did the job, I was made to pay Rs 8292/ , which I did. Took it up with VW and now I got the whole amount refunded. I could prove that the plastic nozzle at the end became broken due to the wrong way it was removed. See the copy of the mail I sent to VW and the photos of the hose that I attached on page 505 0f VW Vento- test drive and review thread.
I presume the hose you are referring to is the fuel return hose, which is very intimately connected to the injectors.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by sidby

The dealer claims it was due to wear and tear and the car is old etc and not under warranty blah blah blah.

It could very well have been damaged by their carelessness

Push for FOC. Ask workshop why it needs replacement and how is the part wear & tear?

Another hose, I remember is clutch hose pipe, is it that one?

Originally Posted by sidby

at the moment I am not sure if I have a leg to stand on. Also, since i got the EGR and Fuel injecetors replaced FOC, I am already facing resentment from them.

Why resentment? VW knows they are at fault. If our laws were strict enough, VW would have recalled every 1.6 TDi powered Vento to replace injectors manufactured prior to 15 June 2012.

[sidby]

Hi,

I seem to have gotten mixed up yet again. Sorry for that.

It turns out that this is neither the clutch hose pipe nor the fuel return hose pipe.

This is " a simple hose pipe connecting the intercooler to the turbo. Made from rubber. Suffers wear and tear and is usually replaced in the 4th or 5th service in a vast majority of cars. Not covered under warranty"

The above quote is verbatim what my SA told me.

Appreciate the support from you guys all the same. Just doesnt seem like I actually have a battle to fight this once. So will fork over the cash and get the vento back today!

thanks for everything though. You guys have been super

Have a good day

[coolboy007]

Originally Posted by sidby

Hi,
Appreciate the support from you guys all the same. Just doesnt seem like I actually have a battle to fight this once. So will fork over the cash and get the vento back today!

The hose pipe is a rubber part and believe me no manufacturer will ever cover the part after standard warranty expires. Rubber hose/rubber suspension parts are never covered under extended warranty as they are a wear n tear item.

Just pay the sum and get your car back, no use fighting for this as VW will never cover this repair under warranty. It is just bad luck that the hose was damaged, there is no compulsion that it has to be changed in 4th/5th year, it must have cracked so it is getting changed now.

When the turbo hose cracks, you will feel a drop in power/missing turbo kick and a reduced fuel efficiency.