[Elito11]

Originally Posted by raul

On reflection I am mystified about the i20 engine, on paper its 80bhp which is 3 bhp more than my usual drive which City idsi and 18bhp more than my Zen (2003) which I also use regularly, yet both these cars are more responsive and peppy to drive, when I need power in the Zen I just have to step on the accelerator and its there, in the i20 you press and nothing, in 3 and 4th you get some activity but you can literally count the seconds while it picks up speed.

What do the experts here think of this engine because ideally 80bhp should at least be adequate and responive on the i20 given 77 in idsi was pretty perky.

Ahh The chink in the Korean Armour!

Have you ever noticed a "brilliant" pertrol engine from Hyundai? well i haven't!

Hyundai makes some of the most well put together cars, Thier cars are cheap to run, relaible and in general look and feel quality. However they really seem to be short on engine tech! It is one strange statistic in thier growth as a carmaker. I can name automakers which sell 1/10 cars as Hyundai but have more technology going in thier engines (and i am not talking luxury carmakers).

Given a comparitive scenario, a 1.2 from any other carmaker would have more "tech" and hence more grunt in it than Hyundai's 1.2

I KNOW it for a fact that the company is facing an issue with the engines production shortage, but still an i20 with a 1.2 engines just does not make sense!

Thier has been a lot of talk about Hyundai being a top carmaker off late. In europe they sell because of thier diesel engines, reliable mechanicals and low cost (comparitively) and in US becuase of thier famously long warranties. But IMO Hyundai just don't have the necessary technological muscle to be a TOP carmaker as of NOW.

Elito

[Elito11]

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Originally Posted by Elito11
If you can..wait till june 09. Both the 1.4 petrol and diesel are going to be out by then, not to mention the Grande Punto Diesel.

Hi Elito11
How sure are you that the i20 would be launched with a 1.4L petrol and CRDi engines by June 2009 ? I've been reading about the 1.4L CRDi for plans on release by mid 2009 but are you sure about the 1.4L petrol ? That 100 bhp 1.4L petrol engine would be nice under the hood of the i20. Hyundai even sells the i20 with a 1.6L petrol engine in some markets.
Warm regards,
Venkat

As per my sources the 1.4 petrol will come before or along with 1.4 diesel. Expected: June 09

Elito

[raul]

A couple of pics showing the back seat legroom I wrote about.

[VSG12777]

Originally Posted by raul

I had a pretty long test drive of the i20 again this morning. The Hyundai folks had got it home in Viman Nagar, Pune and I took it to the new and relatively empty airport road. I was mainly interested in testing the 1.2 engine since I have doubts about its ability.

First the interiors I wanted to recheck the legroom at the back since there has been lots of comment here about its limitations since I last saw it, I had found it decent for a car of its size. So on revisiting this IMHO I have to reiterate its ok for a hatch of this size and is roomy and offers enough space unless there are 2 six footers back to back. Its certainly more spacious than other hatches, I haven't seen Fabia. For those in doubt please have a look yourself, the pics can be misleading and you will probably agree it is not an issue. There is sufficient room.

But the main thing is the engine and after a lot of thought I have to conclude for those of us who enjoy driving this car can be a huge compromise. The 1.2 struggles in nearly all gears with 4 occupants, reaching hundred takes eternity, so I offloaded 2 passengers and tried again, same thing, to move the car with any degree of speed you need to be pedal to the metal. 2nd gear especially is frustrating. I am sure it will eventually reach speeds of 140 but that could take a lot of time and effort. So for the city runabout this is ok - just about because you do need pickup in the city which the i20 doesn't have - but for anything more we have an excellent, well built, feature rich modern hatch basically crippled and ruined by Hyundai. I think at 6.36 lakhs we deserve a bit more excitement and responsiveness from our cars.

@Raul:

I completely agree with you on the i20's engine. It doesn't have the grunt. In my test drive today of the Asta Option Pack version, just after taking car out from the Hyundai Motor Plaza showroom was a signal and then about 600m of straight road before a flyover started. I stood at the signal and on green, took off like a sports car - literally floored the throttle in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. In that 600m, I had already touched 80-90 kmph and had to brake to take the road on the left under the flyover and then a U-turn. The pick-up was ok at best and I did feel the engine to be sluggish in 2nd gear for sure. From about 20-25 kmph, it just didn't move. Then I turned off the A/C and floored it again. It moved a little and then gave a thrust and surged forward. I have felt this initial lack of pick-up and sudden surge (followed by superb acceleration in 2nd & 3rd gears) in our 1998 Cielo GLX (which is still the same even today - lovely) but that as I learned, was because it is an older technology SOHC 8-valve engine.

The i20 has quite a modern 1.2 litre DOHC 16-valve engine with 80 bhp output and I certainly expected much better acceleration than what it offered. We were totally 4 people in the car - me and the sales guy in front and my friend and his wife at the back.

However, I must mention also the positives that I experienced.

* Very spacious - Wow. This was a revelation. This car was more spacious than the Accent and Getz as I compared them at the showroom itself. Not sure whether it was more spacious than the Verna though. I sat in the new Verna as well, but couldn't tell. More or less the same space maybe. Legroom at the rear was very good as mentioned by my friend and his wife who were sitting at the back. I had adjusted my driver's seat perfectly for me to drive and they still had more than enough space to sit at the rear.

* Very refined engine - The engine was very refined and quiet. Couldn't tell that the engine was on even after starting the engine. And even when I ripped the car, at 80-90 kmph, it was not at all noisy inside the cabin. We could hear mainly the sound of the A/C blower since it was initially set on high.

* Excellent sound proofing - The NVH levels are very good in this car. It was so quiet. I am sure on a nice highway while cruising at 90-100 kmph in 5th gear, it should be very quiet.

* Good ride quality - The ride quality I thought was also very good. Immediately after braking before the flyover to take the road on the left, there was a very bumpy section (no tar; only dried mud) for about 20-30 metres before I could take the U-turn. The car handled very well in this section. Our Santro would have had the rear passengers jumping on their seats due to its hard rear suspension. But not so in the i20. It was very good. Almost like a boat - going up and down and before we knew it, the section was over and I had to take the U-turn.

* Very smooth clutch & gearbox - Oh the clutch and gearbox were just lovely. So light and so smooth. It was so much less tiring to drive this 5-speed manual due to the light and smooth clutch and gearbox.

* Tiltable & telescopic steering wheel - This was a very nice feature. I could become comfortable within a minute after I got into the driver's seat. The steering was very light at low speeds and started tightening up after 50-60 kmph. I could feel this.

I missed the height adjustable front seat belts though. I did not feel the need for it with my height (5'8") but it would certainly be useful for taller or shorter people, especially since the driver's seat height adjustment feature has been provided. Having a height adjustable driver's seat and no height adjustable seat belts is really silly. Wonder how a company like Hyundai could leave out this feature on an expensive car like this.

Overall I liked the car very much but as all of you say, the engine is a bit disappointing. It's very good for the city but for highway driving, I don't think it's really good. If we can put up with the lack of initial throttle response, maybe it's fine. But definitely not otherwise. Overtaking would be a pain in this car. The interiors had no fabric on the doors which is strange. Even our Santro XO Ltd Edition car has matching red and black fabric on the seats and the doors. The Verna also has the same kind of doors - just boards / plastic for the whole door. No fabric.

In comparison, we have superb velour upholstery in our 1998 Cielo GLX's doors and seats. When you rest your hands on the doors, it feels so soft and luxurious. Also the driver's seat is height adjustable and so are the front seat belts. At that time I think the Opel Astra and Daewoo Cielo were the only 2 cars to come with the height adjustable seat belts feature. The Opel Astra even had rear height adjustable seat belts.

Originally Posted by raul

I was really hoping to like the i20 and perhaps book it today itself because I have relocated to Bombay for the last 4 months and need a car, at the same time not in the mood to commit 17k plus for new city in this economic environment which is my next choice. Petrol Linea also lurks in the background.

I like everything else about ii20, interiors, build quality, features, safety, ride quality, brakes and a price I can take on in this climate yet the engine is pissing me off now, because I just don't feel like spending money on something I am not convinced about.

On reflection I am mystified about the i20 engine, on paper its 80bhp which is 3 bhp more than my usual drive which City idsi and 18bhp more than my Zen (2003) which I also use regularly, yet both these cars are more responsive and peppy to drive, when I need power in the Zen I just have to step on the accelerator and its there, in the i20 you press and nothing, in 3 and 4th you get some activity but you can literally count the seconds while it picks up speed.

What do the experts here think of this engine because ideally 80bhp should at least be adequate and responive on the i20 given 77 in idsi was pretty perky.

Originally Posted by raul

Zen is definitely lighter and far from powerful, put the ac on and the car immediately drags, yet at low speeds in city traffic and open stretches it can pull with urgency with just 62 bhp. I just didn't feel this urgency in the i20, it simply has its own pace and pedal to metal does not change that.

We need more expert reviews to understand whether its an expectation
mismatch on my end or if the car is actually unbearably slow.

@Raul:

The Zen is a very light car and that 993cc original carb engine was very smooth and powerful too. Power was always there for the asking. Not sure about later models. As for the Honda City's engine (IDSI), that is a 1.5L engine. Hence more torque (pulling power) and more physical engine capacity compared to the puny 1197cc DOHC 16 Valve Kappa engine in the i20.

Originally Posted by Elito11

Ahh The chink in the Korean Armour!

Have you ever noticed a "brilliant" pertrol engine from Hyundai? well i haven't!

Hyundai makes some of the most well put together cars, Thier cars are cheap to run, relaible and in general look and feel quality. However they really seem to be short on engine tech! It is one strange statistic in thier growth as a carmaker. I can name automakers which sell 1/10 cars as Hyundai but have more technology going in thier engines (and i am not talking luxury carmakers).

Given a comparitive scenario, a 1.2 from any other carmaker would have more "tech" and hence more grunt in it than Hyundai's 1.2

I KNOW it for a fact that the company is facing an issue with the engines production shortage, but still an i20 with a 1.2 engines just does not make sense!

Thier has been a lot of talk about Hyundai being a top carmaker off late. In europe they sell because of thier diesel engines, reliable mechanicals and low cost (comparitively) and in US becuase of thier famously long warranties. But IMO Hyundai just don't have the necessary technological muscle to be a TOP carmaker as of NOW.

Elito

@Elito - Agree with you on the above 100%. We definitely deserve a better engine after paying more than 6.2L for the car (Asta).

Originally Posted by Elito11

As per my sources the 1.4 petrol will come before or along with 1.4 diesel. Expected: June 09

Elito

@Elito - Wow. This is nice news. Let us hope that they introduce the 1.4L petrol, 1.4L CRDi diesel and automatic transmission. I also hope they sort out initial issues (if any) and introduce the features that they have left out in the i20 1.2 version being sold now - eg Vanity mirrors, height adjustable seat belts in front, etc.

Warm regards,
Venkat

[raul]

I have been doing some research on the i20 reviews in the Uk and here's the thing. The 1.2 petrol there seems to be preferred by most reviewers for co2 emissions and drivability, they do complain about the lack of power but also say its peppy which I didn't find in the Indian version.

They don't make a big deal of power so that means it is not too bad. And they don't seem to find the 1.4 vvt petrol @ 99bhp significantly better. The consensus on the diesel 1.4 at 77bhp/90bhp is that it is unrefined and noisy but delivers great mileage.

Curiously the UK i20 is 1257 cc and is only 77bhp and yet does 0-100kph in 13.2 sec, while the Indian i20 is 1197 cc and delivers 80bhp and does 0-100 in 15.6 sec. What gives?

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by raul

Curiously the UK i20 is 1257 cc and is only 77bhp and yet does 0-100kph in 13.2 sec, while the Indian i20 is 1197 cc and delivers 80bhp and does 0-100 in 15.6 sec. What gives?

I have a feeling that the 0-100 figures you are claimng for Indian i20 might not be very true! In fact there are lot of different 0-100 figures circulating all around. Most of them are around 13.6s (as per Autobild/ACI reviews). But its not 0-100 thats bad but 40-100 in 4th gear that is real problem (as per one of the mags). Although I might still be wrong with what I am writing.

Some of the reviewers (both on teambhp and automags claim it is quite peppy. Some claim it is a laggard! Its quite interesting.

Most probably its reflective of what car people are driving, those who are reviewing. Somebody upgrading from a Santro/Alto might not find it so bad. And somebody who drives a Verna/Getz CRDi might be disappointed here.

[VSG12777]

Found some nice images of the i20 for the Italian market. Very nice looking automatic transmission, height adjustable seat belts for the front, larger alloy wheels, 240 kmph speedometer (as against 220 kmph for the Indian market version) etc are some of the things I observed from these pictures. Headrest for the rear middle passenger can also be seen, which I think is missing in the Indian i20.
Also, the red and black interior theme looks pretty good, with matching fabric on the doors too.
Enjoy.

Warm regards,
Venkat

P.S. - 1st few images are those clicked at Pondy earlier in 2008 (these appeared as the 1st images in another thread if I am not mistaken).

[VSG12777]

Wow now this is very interesting. Check out the range of engines offered in the Italian market i20:

Petrol: 1.2L DOHC 16V 78 bhp, 1.4L DOHC 16V 100 bhp
Diesel: 1.4L CRDi DOHC 16V 75 bhp, 1.6L CRDi DOHC 16V 115 bhp !!

Aarrgghh !! Why can't we get these better engines ??!!

The 1.6L CRDi model weighs a whopping 1156 kgs !! PDF attached.

Warm regards,
Venkat

[raul]

If you see the reviews the 1.6 diesel gets good marks for refinement, the 1.4 CRDI seems to be noisy and unrefined. But the 1.6 here would cost a bomb, perhaps over 8 lakhs plus, how many takers at that price?

[Gangsta]

Originally Posted by raul

If you see the reviews the 1.6 diesel gets good marks for refinement, the 1.4 CRDI seems to be noisy and unrefined. But the 1.6 here would cost a bomb, perhaps over 8 lakhs plus, how many takers at that price?

bring it on hyundai. 1 buyer is here, only if they provide ABS.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by VSG12777

Found some nice images of the i20 for the Italian market.

A single thought springs to mind when looking at these pictures : What an utterly great looking hatch spoiled by Hyundai's pricing & engine decisions. I was so looking forward to the i20.

[Elito11]

Originally Posted by GTO

I was so looking forward to the i20.

Me too. I not just disappointed in the car, but the company as a whole. :(

Elito

[Thad E Ginathom]

Absolutely.

I sat in one, and wanted it.

I read this thread... and don't even want to bother driving one until they are available with a bit more power.

[VSG12777]

Originally Posted by GTO

A single thought springs to mind when looking at these pictures : What an utterly great looking hatch spoiled by Hyundai's pricing & engine decisions. I was so looking forward to the i20.

@GTO:

I agree with you totally. However I still have a wee bit of hope that Hyundai would introduce the 1.4L petrol and 1.4L CRDi diesel engines sometime this year and position them with somewhat reasonable prices. They did the same with the i10. After around 8-9 months from launch of the i10 1.1 IRDE version, they introduced the i10 1.2L Kappa version and got rid of some 1.1L variants to position the Kappa versions, since they also offered an automatic transmission with the 1.2L Kappa. So I have some hope that they would do something similar.

Maybe then the i20 1.2L Kappa would be the entry level (like the Getz Prime 1.1L) and 2 or 3 versions of Asta, Asta Option Pack and Asta Option Pack Automatic (as in the case of i10 1.2 Kappa Asta Auto with Sunroof, ABS, dual airbags etc) then Asta 1.4 CRDi diesel. Or perhaps they might decide to offer the diesel in a lower trim level like they've done in the past.

I guess the only thing we can do is wait and watch. Though my running per day would not be more than 40 kms and I prefer the 1.4L petrol, I would like them to offer the 1.4L petrol with all the missing features in the current 1.2L model. I am also very interested in seeing how they position the diesel variant.

I somehow personally felt the 1.2L i20 was okay (much more of refinement, smoothness and quietness instead of outright power - very smooth gearshifts too), but like you did, I did not get a chance to try out the car on an incline. Maybe it would have really struggled then.

In fact what they can do is totally get rid of the Santro and Getz, so that they can then position the i20 and i10 properly. There would then be room for 2 petrol engines, an automatic transmission option and 1 diesel engine in the i20. Plus the i10 1.1L CRDi that everyone seems to be talking about. But I doubt Hyundai would do it here. The more I think of this, the more frustrated I get. Sigh.

Warm regards,
Venkat

[VSG12777]

Originally Posted by appuchan

I have finally booked my i20 after lot of deliberations. I was planning to get an automatic but I was very disappointed by ANHC. Linea was another option, but again it was a diesel and too expensive for its engine (same range as Verna CRDI). I was not sure even the petrol will be a VFM considering the engine and size of the car.

So it was i20 finally after more test drives and a long drive (50kms). Delivery is scheduled on 13th Feb. This will replace my 8 year old Santro.

Btw, I have not seen any TD reports or booking news in TBHP about i20. Did anybody book it or all are after Linea?

Hi Appuchan

Just remembered your i20 was to be delivered around the middle of Feb 2009. And upon checking this thread, realised the date given to you was 13 Feb 09 !! Well - any update ? Is the car surely being delivered tomorrow as promised to you ? If so, tomorrow must be an exciting day for you. I am excited myself too, even though you're the one who's getting the car !!

Oh well - please update this thread about your delivery experience, photos etc. Can't wait to check out your post with pics.

Warm regards,
Venkat

P.S. - Don't forget the Team BHP Pre Delivery Inspection Checklist. It would be quite useful. A printout of the same would be really handy.