[Thomas8700]

well then to each his own.
i have nothing else to say
i know that indian roads are like a circus at times. but to the level of a burnout video game

[RX135]

Originally Posted by dash

If you cared to put down the complete content you will understand what they are saying. BTW I think pasting the content is not as per the BHP policy, hence cannt put the whole content here. Your post is an example of mis-quoting and in the way you want to look at it, now you cant beat this!!

Alright, let me call my own bluff. Here is the complete review:

Hyundai is aiming to hit several birds with the stone called the i20 1.4 CRDi: the Honda Jazz, Skoda Fabia and the Fiat Punto MultiJet.
The car has lots of things going for it. It has the looks, the space, decent ride quality, brilliant safety kit, lots of feel-good bits and an excellent build quality too. The 1.4 diesel motor has decent go, developing about 89 bhp and over 22 kgm of torque. Which is more than what the famous engine in the Fiat Punto offers. The Fiat, on the other hand, has ravishing looks - yes, better than the i20's - and it offers a better ride, as expected. The Fiat motor needs time to spool up, which hampers in-city driveability, but once it does, it's really fun to drive. Where the Fiat scores over the i20 is in the driving dynamics - the steering has better feedback and the handling is really exemplary. The i20 is more sedate and is not exactly fun to drive; the steering feedback is missing and the chassis is not nimble. Though the driver's car between the two is the Fiat Punto MultiJet, it's the Hyundai i20 CRDi which is overall a better buy despite being more expensive. Our choice? The i20 CRDi.

As per T-BHP policy:

Source: HYUNDAI i20 1.4 CRDi vs FIAT PUNTO MULTIJET

Now, pray tell me what did I quote out of context to suit my own vested interests? What I said about the comparison is up there verbatim for anyone to figure out and compare with what I said.

[dash]

Originally Posted by RX135

Alright, let me call my own bluff. Here is the complete review:

Hyundai is aiming to hit several birds with the stone called the i20 1.4 CRDi: the Honda Jazz, Skoda Fabia and the Fiat Punto MultiJet.
The car has lots of things going for it. It has the looks, the space, decent ride quality, brilliant safety kit, lots of feel-good bits and an excellent build quality too. The 1.4 diesel motor has decent go, developing about 89 bhp and over 22 kgm of torque. Which is more than what the famous engine in the Fiat Punto offers. The Fiat, on the other hand, has ravishing looks - yes, better than the i20's - and it offers a better ride, as expected. The Fiat motor needs time to spool up, which hampers in-city driveability, but once it does, it's really fun to drive. Where the Fiat scores over the i20 is in the driving dynamics - the steering has better feedback and the handling is really exemplary. The i20 is more sedate and is not exactly fun to drive; the steering feedback is missing and the chassis is not nimble. Though the driver's car between the two is the Fiat Punto MultiJet, it's the Hyundai i20 CRDi which is overall a better buy despite being more expensive. Our choice? The i20 CRDi.

As per T-BHP policy:

Source: HYUNDAI i20 1.4 CRDi vs FIAT PUNTO MULTIJET

Now, pray tell me what did I quote out of context to suit my own vested interests? What I said about the comparison is up there verbatim for anyone to figure out and compare with what I said.

I dont know if I said you had vested interests but any way below is what was missed in your earlier post (Every sentence related to i20):
1. The car has lots of things going for it.
2. It has the looks,
- the space,
- decent ride quality,
- brilliant safety kit,
- lots of feel-good bits and
- an excellent build quality too.
3. The 1.4 diesel motor has decent go, developing about 89 bhp and over 22 kgm of torque. Which is more than what the famous engine in the Fiat Punto offers.
4. Though the driver's car between the two is the Fiat Punto MultiJet, it's the Hyundai i20 CRDi which is overall a better buy despite being more expensive

Now with the above I guess your post would have been more accurate. The post has given due credits to both the cars where ever applicable. That is the reason I called a fair comparison.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by dash

I dont know if I said you had vested interests but any way below is what was missed in your earlier post (Every sentence related to i20):
1. The car has lots of things going for it.
2. It has the looks,
- the space,
- decent ride quality,
- brilliant safety kit,
- lots of feel-good bits and
- an excellent build quality too.
3. The 1.4 diesel motor has decent go, developing about 89 bhp and over 22 kgm of torque. Which is more than what the famous engine in the Fiat Punto offers.
4. Though the driver's car between the two is the Fiat Punto MultiJet, it's the Hyundai i20 CRDi which is overall a better buy despite being more expensive

Now with the above I guess your post would have been more accurate. The post has given due credits to both the cars where ever applicable. That is the reason I called a fair comparison.

1,2. What is says about "lots of things" is NOT part of comparison. Same holds good for Punto, in fact few things better. We were/are obviously talking of comparison.
3. Point taken. It says, it has better power but it says not as much fun to drive as Punto. Huh?
4. This is exactly why I called it funny. It goes all ga-ga over Punto's driveability, handling, ride, fun to drive factor, but then when it comes to overall buy, it says CRDi is better buy, without really saying why it is. I can tell you few reasons why it can be, namely better brand image than Fiat, better *** network than Fiat, probably better quality interior than Fiat, possibly better resale than Fiat; none of which is mentioned in the review.

I hope, you are getting my point now. You can (ex)change Punto and i20 names in the review just in case you think I am Punto fan, and I'll still say call it funny comparison.

[opendro]

Originally Posted by RX135

1,2. What is says about "lots of things" is NOT part of comparison. Same holds good for Punto, in fact few things better. We were/are obviously talking of comparison.
3. Point taken. It says, it has better power but it says not as much fun to drive as Punto. Huh?
4. This is exactly why I called it funny. It goes all ga-ga over Punto's driveability, handling, ride, fun to drive factor, but then when it comes to overall buy, it says CRDi is better buy, without really saying why it is. I can tell you few reasons why it can be, namely better brand image than Fiat, better *** network than Fiat, probably better quality interior than Fiat, possibly better resale than Fiat; none of which is mentioned in the review.

I hope, you are getting my point now. You can (ex)change Punto and i20 names in the review just in case you think I am Punto fan, and I'll still say call it funny comparison.

You are simply quoting things out of context. It only says that Punto is fun to drive once the engine spools up and it takes time to spool up. It again mentions the reason why i20 is not fun to drive. The two lines says "The Fiat motor needs time to spool up, which hampers in-city driveability, but once it does, it's really fun to drive. Where the Fiat scores over the i20 is in the driving dynamics - the steering has better feedback and the handling is really exemplary. The i20 is more sedate and is not exactly fun to drive; the steering feedback is missing and the chassis is not nimble."

As dash pointed out, the review gave points to where each car was stronger. However, which one will be my choice will depend on my priorities. For instance, my priorities are power and safety and give more weight to these parameters. i20 definitely has more power and I would choose i20. If somebody else gives more weightage to handling and price than just raw power, it would punto.

Having myself prefering i20 over punto does not mean that I accept i20 as a bettery buy. I would in fact suggest punto over i20 for most other people, simply because punto score over i20 if we consider all the parameters (price of course a very important for almost everyone) and because not everyone is not crazy about power.

Anyways, my only grudge with your post is that you quote the bsmotoring review out of context, rephrase according to your convenience. Otherwise, I find it very well summed up, balanced review.

[007]

Mate.

So long and brillinat review.

Just one Q, dont you feel like comparing Indica Vista in this, keeping in mind average Indian buyer.

[speedKrazy]

That was an incredible review, appreciate you sidindia for the excellent review.this thread gives any prospective buyer a fair comparison among the hatches for diesel heads.

[supremoo]

Fantastic review by Sidindica, Hats off to you!! I look forward to a detailed review which would include the Swift VDi-ABS and the Indica Vista with the other cars already in this review. I am sure that a new car buyer will definitely appreciate such reviews.

[eMGee]

First and foremost, an excellent article sidindica. I am sure you would have gone through a lot of research and effort to pen all this down. Truly praiseworthy!

I wanted to share my views on one aspect which is around your final verdict, especially around the Fiat GP...

Originally Posted by sidindica

The final verdict:

1st: Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 MJD Emotion pack (9 /10)

Great looks, ride and handling with a solid build let down by mediocre engine, poor interior quality and questionable after sales service. But Look at the price and the overall value it offers and all is forgiven.

to set context, I haven't yet driven the Fiat GP MJD but have been an owner of a Fiat Palio ELX for over 5 years. Just wanted to highlight one key aspect around 'owning' (which agreeably you've mentioned in great detail in your review and have even considered in your final verdict) - which I wanted to over-emphasize.

Basically, it's around the A.S.S. provided by Fiat or the Tata-Fiat combine dealerships. One word to sum it up - PAINFUL! (In fact, "Extremely painful" - but then that would have been two words!). And this to me should out-weigh some of the other niceties that the car may offer (but then, that's my view). Let me explain my view in some more detail.

I owned a Palio ELX from 2002-07 and absolutely loved the car in terms of drivability, comfort, safety and looks. What I didn't like was a) fuel efficiency (agreed that was a Petrol and here we're talking about a Diesel) and most importantly b) A.S.S. and general maintenance of the vehicle.

It was an absolute nightmare trying to get the car serviced and repaired - the dealers wouldn't have stock of basic things like side view mirrors, fuse-box cover etc. and could take weeks to get those. The problems in the car could never be handled unless you had a major fight (like these reality shows these days) and every time trying to threaten to sue them or talk to the higher management etc. (not that it made any impact to them anyways!). On top of it, the serving and repair costs were extremely high, which made it worse.

Net net, the "peace of mind" was missing at most times, especially after a couple of years, once the honeymoon period ends. And that to me, should be outweighing the other things that we typically consider and get into a relationship (eh, did I really mean that??! I am married for 7 years now, you see!). And then, when you part ways, it hurts even more (one of the reasons it hurt me a lot was that I spent ~5 lacs on this thing, drove for around 40k kms and had to sell at less than 25% even with a no-claim insurance for all 5 yrs!). It surely hurts and pains a lot. I am sure you know where (I meant the pocket, just in case you had other thoghts!).

And that's not the case at all with a Hyundai or a Maruti (I've had long experiences with both these and have been very very satisfied when it comes to the "peace of mind" aspect). And that's also the case with a Honda or a Toyota etc. And that's not the case with say, a Ford or a Skoda - I can see people almost collapsing whenever their Ford/Skoda goes for a repair and they see the bills!

So, what I'd like to propose is that people do keep a long term ownership aspect in mind when going in with their decision (I seriously mean only for cars, but yes, if you wish, you could use for your spouse too!).

So, that's my point of view.

[finneyp]

eMGee, Fiat service in Delhi has vastly improved now, they have 7 Fiat-Tata Service centers now (some of them are new dealerships/SCs).

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by eMGee

So, what I'd like to propose is that people do keep a long term ownership aspect in mind when going in with their decision

Of Course, People do. In fact, long term ownership is a very very important parameter in buying decision of a typical indian car buyer. And that refelects in Sales Charts also, right?
The same is also discussed in extensive details in another similar thread here.

eMGee, Fiat service in Delhi has vastly improved now, they have 7 Fiat-Tata Service centers now (some of them are new dealerships/SCs).

Agreed. Vast difference. Also, this time around Fiat seems to have been doing right moves. Higher % localisation, spare parts availability not very difficult, not very costly (in fact, very competitive), spreaded network of TASS. This is completely diferent than the earlier era of very few dealers, negligible no. of cars sold, spare parts import, feasibility for a dealer to maintain inventory of spares because of negligible sales, etc etc

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by finneyp

eMGee, Fiat service in Delhi has vastly improved now, they have 7 Fiat-Tata Service centers now (some of them are new dealerships/SCs).

There's more to After sales service than just opening new centers.
How do u say it has improved ? or is it just on the basis of Fiat- Tata service center numbers ?

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

Agreed. Vast difference. Also, this time around Fiat seems to have been doing right moves. Higher % localisation, spare parts availability not very difficult, not very costly (in fact, very competitive), spreaded network of TASS. This is completely diferent than the earlier era of very few dealers, negligible no. of cars sold, spare parts import, feasibility for a dealer to maintain inventory of spares because of negligible sales, etc etc

What about the Palio ?? There are more Palios on road than GP.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by kpzen

What about the Palio ?? There are more Palios on road than GP.

I've read on some Palio threads that even some of the spares of Palio are now available cheaper than before.

But yes, point taken. If you ask Palio spares as compared to GP/Linea, % localisation won't be as high as GP/ Linea (my guess only), Palio owners should be able to throw more light.

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

the sudden lane change though a quick solution to avoid an object suddenly cutting it, its a wild gamble at the same time too.
one you can hit oncoming traffic! in India this is a high probability and hence lane changes arent that encouraged.
Worse you can hit the divider and topple the car. not valid in india in bidirectinal highways to a great extent but depending on the speed the car will do different types of circus tricks!! lolzz. but in one way highways, this will be serious always ending up with car a total loss and Driver injured badly! the situations where the car topples or Side crashes , the additional airbags become crucial.

Thomas Chetta, why are you defending the i20 steadfastly, when it is evident there is a flaw? Now you are saying that changing lanes is deadly(it seems it results in certain death, going by your post), because i20 cannot do it with aplomb?

I have said this before, and I will say it again. The i20 is not a car for the enthusiast who likes to drive fast, much less for the novice who does not know that speed can kill. For normal people who drive under speed limits or never explore the limits of their car, i20 would be a heck of a buy.

I repeat my question - Do you work for Hyundai(or any of it's associates) ?? answer.

[Thomas8700]

nope i dont work for hyundai in anyway. i am not defending the i20. but none the less its not a flaw!! any good driver on a i20 or swift or ritz or indica vista will smoke the so called punto for that matter.

so why the comparison?? when it comes to raw power ther is no substituition. its a sad world you have to live with it