[rohing]

@ anilisanil : Completely agree with you. The manufacturers are free to advertise their product in every way they want.

However, what should be discouraged is random showcasing of results with any reference to parameters under which the test was conducted - this would be delibrately misleading the customer. For e.g.: Driving down from Ooty to Coimbatore downhill, I am sure I can also claim huge mileage numbers too...

In this case it is nothing but paid news!..which is now quite common. A correct evaluation of the engine performance is probably better represented by ARAI tests. Or even better, without all these gimmicks, why not just run the engine by itself under fixed/variable load conditions in the factory!

Originally Posted by anilisanil

Well it will be a concern if only Ford does that, if everyone else follows the same thing then only thing we can do is use our discretion. While you are right in saying all that you said, it just ends up as a rhetoric! We can't ask the manufacturers to not to do such things, can we?

[vinboy]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

Building one lakh Figos doesnt seem to have made much difference to the appearance of squeaks and rattles. My dashboard is more or less one of those rattle toys on rough roads and poorly finished concrete roads. Luckily, the music system is good.

Doc, Next time I meet you!! I would surely want to sit and experience it!! I am sure we share some notes! In my car the rattle coming out of the dash seems to be a loose fitting of the decorative silver plastic around the air vent. The rattle also comes from the USB cable! its a rather odd set up right? The USB cable is a modification which is like a sore thumb inside the glove box!!

[vinboy]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

Well it will be a concern if only Ford does that, if everyone else follows the same thing then only thing we can do is use our discretion. While you are right in saying all that you said, it just ends up as a rhetoric! We can't ask the manufacturers to not to do such things, can we?

You right! it was a rhetoric and my purpose of doing that was to put that point across. I know there are different ways a manufacture would do that to create the required effect! Like Chevy going about giving you 3 year service "free" along with their small cars! Yes you are right discretion is ours

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by vinboy

The rattle also comes from the USB cable! its a rather odd set up right? The USB cable is a modification which is like a sore thumb inside the glove box!!

Tape the end of the USB cable at the end wall of the dashboard and attach your pen drive there whenever you wish. It will end the USB cable rattle which happens when the cable moves about in the dashboard.

PS - Do be careful though when the service guys have to remove the dash to check for fuses etc.



btw is this the biggest ever thread on team-bhp? It has more than a million views.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by rohing

I can confirm 2500 rpm for 100 in 5th gear. This tested this for nearly 300 kms It holds true when there are no serious up/down slopes.

Thanks.. Rpm in a particular gear at a particular speed does not change with up or down slopes as long as the clutch is not disengaged.

If it is 2500 rpm at 100 kmph, it will be 2500 rpm no matter the car is ascending or descending or going through flat land as long as speed is 100 kmph.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

An example : An HDMI cable from a reputed brand costs Rs.1500 & i can get you one @ Rs 200 also.

Just some difference in quality

The differences

1) Cheaper one has smaller length
2) Next summer the insulation of the cheaper one came off in my hand
3) Another cheaper one which i own has rust on its terminals & does not work
4) My friend also bought this cheaper one & it burned one of the HDMI ports on his TV.

However this does not mean that this figo USB cable should cost 1100/- as USB is not that technologically advanced & neither does it carry a large current(or voltage whatever) as the HDMI does.

A reputed USB cable should not cost more than 500/-

Mustang

you have been very helpful and I do appreciate the comments you make here regarding automobiles in general and Ford in particular HOWEVER

I know a thing or two about cables, and here you are dead wrong. you can gent pretty good HDMI cable (1.5m length) for Rs 300 or so, not just in India but in US too. "Brand" in this is mostly a way to fleece you, just like you got fleeced by the Rs. 200 cable. And by the way, knowing the HDMI spec inside out I can tell you even the brand names are fleecing people by putting misleading info.

shorter cable will cost less than longer cable, and this is not just a function of length (5m will not cost three times of 1.5m - it'll cost more and will most likely be thicker). Rust is bad of course, but very slight rust will NOT degrade signal quality, so long as the connections can be made. And it is not possible to burn a HDMI port using a cheaper cable (to "burn" something you need enough energy - HDMI ports are current limited, each one of them) - the TV might have a defect to begin with and you shouldn't believe what the TV service guys tell you.

Now coming to USB:

It is surprising to begin with that Ford didn't even include a mini-USB port on the audio unit (costs less than 5 cents in high volume, 50cents in high volume) and it is adding insult to injury when the cable - without which there is no USB on the audio system - costs Rs. 1100. This has nothing to do with quality - a Rs. 50 cable would do just fine if Ford cares to provide a proper USB connector somewhere on the audio unit (and it chooses not to).

[vina]

I have friends who swear by quality music and would have none of MP3 non sense. The buy CDs and use them for their car Audio. I myself have never found myself to be blessed with ears that could make out any difference. So today while going through the specs of the Figo audio system I get a (pleasant ??) surprise - by specs, the quality sucks (different points of view are possible, keep reading) The THD is 0.5% @1kHZ and SNR is 70dB (again 1kHz) CD recording can achieve 30 times better than each (that would be better than 0.015% THD for the entire 20Hz-20kHz range and 100dB for the SNR again throughout the 20Hz-20kHz range). iPod does 92dB across the range and 96dB at 1kHz (measured in lab on a sample of iPod devices some years ago). Now I'm not really saying Figo Audio sucks (though technically it does, my ears wouldn't know - they suck worse) what I'm saying is that for Figo (or I guess most other car audio systems) having a holier than thou attitude and not using mp3 files is really stupid. a lossless WMA song of 5 min, duration can be anywhere between 7MB to 20MB in data, and to do be able to do the quality that Figo (and arguably most other cars) can do you probably can achieve the same with MP3 sampled at 192kHz (will be way smaller). Even 48kHz sampling will probably top the Figo Audio quality (though lower than 42kHz will probably be worse).

[Deep Blue]

[quote=vinboy;2332180] In my car the rattle coming out of the dash seems to be a loose fitting of the decorative silver plastic around the air vent.[quote]
I think one of my dash rattles is from that same thing.

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by vina

I have friends who swear by quality music and would have none of MP3 non sense. The buy CDs and use them for their car Audio. I myself have never found myself to be blessed with ears that could make out any difference. So today while going through the specs of the Figo audio system I get a (pleasant ??) surprise - by specs, the quality sucks (different points of view are possible, keep reading) The THD is 0.5% @1kHZ and SNR is 70dB (again 1kHz) CD recording can achieve 30 times better than each (that would be better than 0.015% THD for the entire 20Hz-20kHz range and 100dB for the SNR again throughout the 20Hz-20kHz range). iPod does 92dB across the range and 96dB at 1kHz (measured in lab on a sample of iPod devices some years ago). Now I'm not really saying Figo Audio sucks (though technically it does, my ears wouldn't know - they suck worse) what I'm saying is that for Figo (or I guess most other car audio systems) having a holier than thou attitude and not using mp3 files is really stupid. a lossless WMA song of 5 min, duration can be anywhere between 7MB to 20MB in data, and to do be able to do the quality that Figo (and arguably most other cars) can do you probably can achieve the same with MP3 sampled at 192kHz (will be way smaller). Even 48kHz sampling will probably top the Figo Audio quality (though lower than 42kHz will probably be worse).

Oh... Kay
I probably did not get what you said but i know that in the figo, if you use USB or Aux, the sound quality is not that good as it is when you put a CD/MP3.

[jayded]

Originally Posted by vina

I have friends who swear by quality music and would have none of MP3 non sense. The buy CDs and use them for their car Audio. I myself have never found myself to be blessed with ears that could make out any difference. So today while going through the specs of the Figo audio system I get a (pleasant ??) surprise - by specs, the quality sucks (different points of view are possible, keep reading) The THD is 0.5% @1kHZ and SNR is 70dB (again 1kHz) CD recording can achieve 30 times better than each (that would be better than 0.015% THD for the entire 20Hz-20kHz range and 100dB for the SNR again throughout the 20Hz-20kHz range). iPod does 92dB across the range and 96dB at 1kHz (measured in lab on a sample of iPod devices some years ago). Now I'm not really saying Figo Audio sucks (though technically it does, my ears wouldn't know - they suck worse) what I'm saying is that for Figo (or I guess most other car audio systems) having a holier than thou attitude and not using mp3 files is really stupid. a lossless WMA song of 5 min, duration can be anywhere between 7MB to 20MB in data, and to do be able to do the quality that Figo (and arguably most other cars) can do you probably can achieve the same with MP3 sampled at 192kHz (will be way smaller). Even 48kHz sampling will probably top the Figo Audio quality (though lower than 42kHz will probably be worse).

Hi, could you be more clear as to what you just said? Reading your post I got a feeling you are suggesting Ford Audio should play MP3, but it does!

Or Did I get you wrong?

[vina]

Originally Posted by jayded

Hi, could you be more clear as to what you just said? Reading your post I got a feeling you are suggesting Ford Audio should play MP3, but it does!

Or Did I get you wrong?

Well actually not you but . Let me clarify (Mustang.101 - you can also get the Aux related answer here):

1. In signal processing quality of a signal has some figures of merit (FoM) -
   1. SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) is the defined as strength of the (intended) signal to strength of the (unintended, unpredictable) noise. If you have heard Lata Mangeshkar on All India Radio, then the background noise is the noise in question here.
   2. THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) is the unintended but predictable part present (e.g. at high volume the signal gets compressed - that is predictable but still unintended).
   3. There are others (phase distortion, unmatched delays ...)
2. CD quality music is 16bits. Usually max limit of SNR for digital signal is 6dB/bit - 96dB for CD quality music is possible, though most actual music (especially old songs) will have less than this. Usually the max you can get is 92dB to 94dB. This is a logarithmic scale - 3dB means 2x the sound quality.
3. SNR: iPod does 92dB effortlessly. Samsung's middle range phones can do 94dB. For comparison:
   1. Call with poor call quality is between 20dB to 30dB (less than that is not intelligible)
   2. Cellphone call with great quality can go as high as 44dB
   3. Landlines can give 48dB
   4. AIR FM can give you at best 60dB (compression and bandwidth usage limit the signal here)
   5. MP3 can be made to use any quality you want.
   6. SPDIFF Audio from DVD is 24bit and theoretically give you as high as 150dB, but usually it is 110dB or so.
4. THD: For peak signal, iPod does about 0.01% and Samsung phones do slightly better. for comparison:
   1. Phone calls do about 3% to 0.5% (depending on call quality etc.)
   2. AIR FM does about 0.5%
   3. MP3 is variable.
   4. CD can in theory do better than 100dB (this is 0.001% irrelevant since SNR is slightly worse than this, so any distortion will be masked. Also pre-encoding distortion is higher see below) - but even commercial recording equipment can usually not match this.
   5. DVD's can do a further 1000 times better (in theory). In practice recording equipment limits it to between 0.001% to 0.0001%
   6. By the way, unless you have very low distortion speakers - this wouldn't matter. Cheap speakers do poorly in this range you'll be lucky to get 0.5% that Figo specifies on the amplifier. Earphones usually do 0.01% easily and that is why iPod kept it there. But large power speakers find it difficult to do. e.g. for Figo there is a spec on "Audio Section that says THD 10% ... 20W this means at high volume the speakers will compress the sound.
      1. 1. This is the spec due to which high end audio systems charge you more $$$
5. Now having clarified the above; for Figo:
   1. The THD of USB/CD section 0.5% - this is pretty poor and most cellphones will better it.
   2. SNR is 70dB - again poor, and your Mozarts and Mangeshkars wouldn't be done full justice.
   3. AUX is not even specified fully - this means the numbers will most likely be worse. My guess is the THD will be similar (i.e. between 0.5% and 1%) but the SNR will be 55dB or so - you'll decidedly be able to tell (even my ears can).

I haven't tested it yet but the Audio Guide says that WMA and MP3 are supported (on CD and USB) - so I don't know why you say Figo doesn't play MP3. Mustang may clarify better.

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by vina

I haven't tested it yet but the Audio Guide says that WMA and MP3 are supported (on CD and USB) - so I don't know why you say Figo doesn't play MP3. Mustang may clarify better.

He said that Figo does play MP3. Read carefully:

but it does

Anyways i do not know much about this audio thing so i can't comment.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

He said that Figo does play MP3. Read carefully:




Anyways i do not know much about this audio thing so i can't comment.

Sorry. I think I read the "does" as "doesn't".

Regarding the Audio thing - My point was not about Figo's music system which I know is pretty good (my sister has a ZXI TDCi) the point was that even if you think you have ears than can distinguish between good quality MP3 and DVD music, it makes no sense to spend extra to buy the latter (or even CD quality) if you intend to play it in Figo - the sound system can do no better than a relatively mid-range MP3 recording.

CAUTION here - most MP3 recording sold in the market is decidedly bad, for the purpose I recommend the user to cut their own CDs or put the thing on a USB drive, but generate the MP3 on their own computers.


Better (and more expensive) Car Audio systems are available though - e.g. Kenwood - KDC-X995

I personally wouldn't be able to make out a difference though, my ears (and I believe those of most others) are not that sensitive.

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by clevermax

If it is 2500 rpm at 100 kmph, it will be 2500 rpm no matter the car is ascending or descending or going through flat land as long as speed is 100 kmph.

Actually it is a speedo indicated 100 kmph. My GPS shows 91 kmph at the same speed. Unlike fusion or fiesta, the figo's speedo has a 10% error at all speeds.

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Actually it is a speedo indicated 100 kmph. My GPS shows 91 kmph at the same speed. Unlike fusion or fiesta, the figo's speedo has a 10% error at all speeds.

You can't rely on GPS speed as GPS does not take into account the gradient of the road. But can somebody, who has more knowledge about GPS, confirm this.