[carboy]

The OEM JK Tyres on my Swift was changed after 53000 kms. It still had around 3000-4000 kms left, but I changed it because it was around 4 years old.

Did balancing of the tyres only twice in that period (both times in the first 20000 kms). Rotated every 10000 kms. Alignment done twice - when it was apparent it needed alignment.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

BTW, warranty period is not same as period where the product will work predictably. For eg, most manufacturers offer a 2-year warranty on cars, but that does not mean they think the car will be inpredictable after 2-years.

Warranty for a new product is meant to provide peace of mind to the buyer and protect him against shortcomings in product quality, design, specific piece issues etc.
Warranty Period is a function of two things - a) Predictable behavior and statistically capped liability; and b) Market conditions/competitive forces allowing manufacturer to limit liability as low as possible

Your example of 2-year warranty on cars is a constraint of b). But in advanced markets, it is not a 2-year warranty which you get. For eg. in US, from several manufacturers, you get 5-year warranty on cars, 10-year on transmission and anti-body corrosion etc. Same is true for the Michelin 6-year warranty applying globally.
Now, the challenge for the company is why say 6-years and not 4-years, or 8-years. They have to balance a) and b) factors, and also hope to meet/exceed customer expectation of useful life of the product in the market (which also depends on brand positioning).

So, while a particular sample may well exceed the specified warranty interval, it is not predictable or it can be predicted with high probability that there will be significant high percent of failures (from company perspective). So, my recommendation remains change tyres in 5-6 years even if tread depth is fine - individual folks can fit to their needs (low speed city usage as you stated) and hold on longer :-)

PS - the warranty on a car (which is huge complex system of many parts each with probably varying life) and that on a tyre are quite different beasts. While its possible to repair a car for hundred's of issues, a tyre can only be repaired for a puncture - other than that, it will be a writeoff.

[supremeBaleno]

Aah !!! Let's not drag this thread OT into car warranty. I just mentioned the standard Indian car warranty and that too was only referred because your earlier post seemed to imply a connection between warranty-period and predictable-functioning, which is normally not the case.

As I said earlier, to each his own. You say 5-6 years is the duration till which tyres retain their characteristic. There would be someone else who says that duration is too high for Indian conditions and we should dump tyres after 2-3 years. I believe in what a visual inspection provides - if it looks bad (low tread or frayed edges, cuts etc), dump it irrespective of age. If not, use it.

[lancer_rit]

@supremeBaleno, sure, to each their own. It is important, however, to highlight the drawbacks of older tyres as I posted, so other bhpians can make their own suitable judgement.

[supremeBaleno]

Indeed we need to highlight the drawbacks of older tyres for the common good. But as I mentioned earlier, we need to first arrive at a consensus on how many years is old. From the links I posted earlier, it looked to me like 10years is OK. However if you insist 5years is the limit, it would help if we have some suitable documentation attesting that claim.

I again looked up some other manufacturer websites on this topic and this is what I found. While MRF does not mention a specific life for tyres, Michelin says it varies and is not predictable and end off by saying that 10years is the upper limit.

<<MRF :
What is the approximate life of a set of tyres?
The life of your tyres depends on several factors: the condition of your vehicle and the roads you drive on, driving habits, etc. >>

<<Michelin :
The usable life of tyres varies enormously and is impossible to predict. For this reason, Michelin recommends that all drivers pay attention to the external appearance of their tyres, to any loss of inflation pressure or any abnormal occurrence (vibration, noise, lateral pull) which might demonstrate the need to replace them.
Moreover, in addition to regular inspections and tyre pressure adjustment, Michelin also recommends that all tyres (including those on spare wheels, trailers, caravans and camping cars), are inspected regularly by a tyre specialist, who can assess whether they should continue in service. After five years or more of use, this inspection must be carried out at least once a year.

As a precaution, if the tyres have not been replaced 10 years from their date of manufacture, Michelin recommends replacing them with new tyres even if they appear to be in usable condition and have not worn down to the tread wear indicator.>>

[zaveed]

OEM Tyres on my santro were good till 32k, had to change one tyre because of an accident and after not able to judge how many km/'s each tyre has lasted.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Indeed we need to highlight the drawbacks of older tyres for the common good. But as I mentioned earlier, we need to first arrive at a consensus on how many years is old. From the links I posted earlier, it looked to me like 10years is OK. However if you insist 5years is the limit, it would help if we have some suitable documentation attesting that claim.

ok, I thought I already posted the last time on this topic, but since you persist to hint that 10-years is a regular life for an average tyre, I am compelled to post again...
Here's a snippet from what you posted from the Bridgestone tyre document
<<<While most tyres will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tyres in service older than 10 years from the date of manufacture, including spare tyres, be replaced with new tyres as a simple precaution even if such tyres appear serviceable and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.... This recommendation does not in any way reduce the consumers’ responsibility to change tyres when appropriate. >>>

So, what part makes you think 10 years is a "normal" tyre life time period, when the above statement clearly states "most tyres will need replacement before they achieve 10 years" ?

For Michelin,
"After five years or more of use, this inspection must be carried out at least once a year. Where necessary, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations on replacement of original parts. "

To me, its obvious that if I need to get a tyre inspection atleast once (preferrably more) a year after 5 years, my tyre has good probability to retire after 5, 6, 7 years if not already done. BTW, I did say that tyre life not being predictable beyond 6 years is factored in the Michelin tyre warranty - sure it could fail due to special circumstances before 5 years also,but its increasingly possible in normal conditions afterwards ...

So my recommendation is on solid footing and I practice it myself. Maybe you do not value minimizing the probability of getting stranded with a tyre blowout on a highway drive, or a tyre puncture @ midnight, or being in an accident because the braking distance has increased by 5 or 10m due to hard rubber in the tyres ? For me these matter tremendously, and I have already given my reasoning for the same.

Or probably you have some documentary evidence to prove that an 8 year old tyre can (given the same km run) do as a 4 year-old one
a) brake as effectively
b) Have as less road-noise
c) Is as resilient to punctures
d) car handles and grips as well ?

My personal experience over 20 years of driving tells me that with old tyres, all of the above diminishes, and this is what folks reading this thread need to consider, and then based on their situation, determine how old is too old!

BTW, please read the following articles on the dangers of 'aging tyres' including work being done by NHTSA and others like Ford (6-years seems to be the duration being talked about).

Tire Aging: The Unseen Danger

New But Aged Tires Can Be Dangerous -

The Invisible Danger of Aging Tires

Aging tires can pose danger - Money - TODAY.com

My last post on this topic. Peace out!
PS - I have read the tyre warranty terms of all major manufacturers few years back while reading some other tbhp tyre threads on warranty, so I do have the benefit of some knowledge of the same.
PS2 - The tyre age needs to be considered from the "date of manufacture" and not the date of use as per many of the above articles.

[supremeBaleno]

Not to argue, but some points you made needed to be clarified. Hope this helps and if there exists a thread which deals with our discussion more aptly, maybe mods could move our posts there.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

So, what part makes you think 10 years is a "normal" tyre life time period, when the above statement clearly states "most tyres will need replacement before they achieve 10 years" ?

When someone says that most tyres will need replacement before 10years, does that sound closer to 10 or closer to 5/6 as you suggest ? I fail to understand your logic. From that statement, what I can make out it is, "the probability of tyres working beyond 10years is almost nil". So the life can be anywhere upto 10years, depending on various factors, like roads, usage, care, brand, weather etc etc. So, while some here might see tyres needing replacement at 1year due to their usage, we would have others going on for 5years and others even more.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

So my recommendation is on solid footing and I practice it myself. Maybe you do not value minimizing the probability of getting stranded with a tyre blowout on a highway drive, or a tyre puncture @ midnight, or being in an accident because the braking distance has increased by 5 or 10m due to hard rubber in the tyres ?

All these matter to anyone driving - no one desires to have a blowout or puncture. But then don't brand-new tyres get punctured ? On the accidents thread, there is mention of accidents due to blow-outs in new cars which are like 2-4 years old. So should we go about replacing tyres at 2years, just based on age. I do agree that age is a parameter, but it is also just one of the many parameters involved.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

Or probably you have some documentary evidence to prove that an 8 year old tyre can (given the same km run) do as a 4 year-old one
a) brake as effectively
b) Have as less road-noise
c) Is as resilient to punctures
d) car handles and grips as well ?

Since you asked, let me give my results from using the 7-yr old tyre in my car.
a) I have not felt any (perceptible) difference in braking from when the tyres were 4yrs old
b) Road-noise is there from the time the tyres were new - tyre-experts would attribute it to the crappy OEMs. I drive with windows up and music-system on and I dont bother about road-noise - no difference in 4yrs vs 7years
c) In all these years, I have had just 2 punctures (documented in my car's LTR on the forum). First one was in the initial 1-2 years, while the 2nd one was at 6years IIRC. New vs old seem to break-even on this point. BTW, the wider/tubeless tyres on our Swift-ZXi which is not even 5years old has seen 3 punctures till date and 2 of them at same place, leading to it being useless as tubeless (now being used as a tube-type stepney). So much for young tyres.
d) My driving is mostly city - no noticeable difference felt in grip&handling.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

My personal experience over 20 years of driving tells me that with old tyres, all of the above diminishes, and this is what folks reading this thread need to consider, and then based on their situation, determine how old is too old!

Yes, it does, but it is not just the age that causes it. The tread (or lack of it) would be the main reason IMO. I drove in '98 with 2 friends from Kerala to Chennai on our '85 M800 that had stock tyres done only 40K, but were almost out of tread. I knew the risk involved and we drove accordingly at low speeds (it was a last-minute emergency drive and no shops open on Sunday to change tyres) - one of the 4 tyres blewout near Chengalpattu, but since we were at slow/controllable speeds, we just moved to the kerb, changed the tyre and moved on. All 4 tyres were replaced 1st thing on reaching Chennai.

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

BTW, please read the following articles on the dangers of 'aging tyres' including work being done by NHTSA and others like Ford (6-years seems to be the duration being talked about).

Thanks. I did read the articles. One of them talked about an SUV crash where a lady's son was killed, which was blamed on the tyres and she sued them. But there is no mention of what speed he was doing, how he was driving etc - could those not have had a bearing on the accident ? Being the US, it is easy to sue someone and get away with it. One related incident that comes to mind is the blowout-induced crash that killed some manager/facilitator of SachinTendulkar many years ago - I doubt they would have been running old tyres.

[lingadalli]

Replaced my stock JK Elanzo tyres on my scorpio after 76,000 kms. 3 tyres still had some life in it and were good for another 10,000 kms. But the other 2 went bald along with cracks on the side. I have now replaced them with Yokohama Geloander A/T tyres.

thanks,
Prakash

[DRIVEPASSION]

Hi

I use Michelin Tyres on my Honda City and replaced the tyres after two and a half years after having done 78000 Kms. I was using Michelin Tyres. I had them inspected and was told that they still had another 5 - 6 thousand Kms of life but as I had begun have frequent pressure loss in one of them and another did have a couple of punctures and they asked me to use a tube - I decided against that and changed all four

Cheers

[nvldvr]

I have the stock JK Elanzos on my 2009 Scorpio SLE. Have done 40000 km till now, and the tyres seem pretty worn. Will not last beyond 50k. The tread is almost gone on 3 of the 4 tyres. This despite me rotating them every 5k, balancing wheels at 20k, and very regular air checks to mantain the recommended tyre pressure.

Guys here have got 76 k out the same set of tyres on scorp.

Any thing i am missing out on?

[SBR]

Originally Posted by nvldvr

I have the stock JK Elanzos on my 2009 Scorpio SLE. Have done 40000 km till now, and the tyres seem pretty worn. Will not last beyond 50k. The tread is almost gone on 3 of the 4 tyres. This despite me rotating them every 5k, balancing wheels at 20k, and very regular air checks to mantain the recommended tyre pressure.

Guys here have got 76 k out the same set of tyres on scorp.

Any thing i am missing out on?

May be you should change the place from where you get the wheel balancing and wheel alignment done. This is very important.
I had stock JK tyres on my 2006 M-800, did 56,000 KMS in 5 years and still the tyres could have been run for additional 5,000KMS but I changed them as the ride was not smooth enough. I thought this was very good running for stock JK tyres and this was possible as I always got the alignment and balancing done from Madhus Tyres on Langford road in Bangalore. I replaced the stock tyres with MRF ZCC tyres about 2 weeks back.

[thoma]

Four stock Goodyear Eagle NCT5 on the Baleno Vxi has been changed to Bridgestone Potenza GIII at 39000 after 4 years. On all the five stock Goodyears, tread have been almost worn out fully and the outer tyre cords (I guess the nylon ones) have begun to show up. One among the five is still retained as spare. Towards the end, it was prone to frequent punctures, the worn out tread adding to the cause. It could have lasted a maximum of 2000 kms more if I had to live dangerously and by then the steel cords should have shown out (remembering my neighbor's first batch Indica living on steel cords with very less mileage on the odo).

Is this not a low mileage, when alignment and rotation has been done as per recommended service intervals?

[xander]

Santro:

Bridgestone S322 155/70 R13 -30K. Had good life left. threw them away when I got alloys
JK Ultima XT racing tyres 185/60 R13 - 23K. Worn out
Yokohama A539 175/60 R13 - 27K and still running strong.

Skoda Octavia

Stock Goodyear 195/60 R15 - 50K
Yokohama A drive 205/60 R15 - 50K
Goodyear 205/60 R15 - 8K and still running

[cyberwhizs]

Indica V2 DLS. 165/65 R13
Bridgestone S322 lasted 46K, would have lasted some more had not TASS meticulously misaligned it couple of times resulting in uneven wear in the insides.
After window shopping various brands - was just itching for a change for the sake of a change-
MRF ZTX - 3100,
Ceat - 3000,
Goodyear GPS2- 3200,

decided to stick with Bridgestone S322 - 3400/-, got 200Rs back for the old tyres and alignment and balancing including weights for free.